Webrides: MS3 vs R32
- Thread starter jinzumkei
- Start date
It will cost you $600 to chip a GTI. That's 260 HP and 300 lbs/tq on a car with a MSRP less than or equal to a MS3 GT.
A 30k GTI would put 10 cars on a stock MS3.
The GTI is a great car but inferior to the R32, even though the R32 isn't as quick. My old 1.8T GTI would walk a stock R32 with ease... yet I would of taken the R32 any day of the week. It is such a well defined car, it's kind of hard to compare it to a MS3. Class wise, the GTI would be a better comparison, but stock for stock it wouldn't stand a chance with performance.
I've been browsing this forum for the past couple weeks because it's very much possible that within 6-8 months (ugh!) i'll be purchasing a MS3. The decision has been pretty easy (I'm almost sure I don't want a used STI), but if the new R32 came 6-speed, I think i'd have a much harder decision to make (even though there's a 7k difference).
A 30k GTI would put 10 cars on a stock MS3.
The GTI is a great car but inferior to the R32, even though the R32 isn't as quick. My old 1.8T GTI would walk a stock R32 with ease... yet I would of taken the R32 any day of the week. It is such a well defined car, it's kind of hard to compare it to a MS3. Class wise, the GTI would be a better comparison, but stock for stock it wouldn't stand a chance with performance.
I've been browsing this forum for the past couple weeks because it's very much possible that within 6-8 months (ugh!) i'll be purchasing a MS3. The decision has been pretty easy (I'm almost sure I don't want a used STI), but if the new R32 came 6-speed, I think i'd have a much harder decision to make (even though there's a 7k difference).
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(I just came from a 1.8T Jetta and though I miss parts of it, the MS3 out performs it in almost every way (except in its interior and overall refinement).
A R32 with a 6-speed would be slower (maybe more fun, but still slower). The VW DSG can shift quicker than any person ever could and the 1/4 mile and 0-60 times prove it consistantly.
Overall I liked the comparison. I did feel, however that the exhaust sound of the R32 was to die for. It totally sounded way meaner and way nicer than the MS3. I guess that's what you can get with 2 additional cylinders (and a narrow angle V6).
I agree that the MS3 is a better car overall, that's why I got rid of mine and plan on buying a mazda. My point there was mainly to show that the R32 isn't that quick, and that a decently modified 1.8 liter turbo charged engine could out perform it. It really shouldn't come as a surprise to any one that a MS3 is faster.
I was also trying to show a realistic cost for modifying a Mk5 GTI to match a MS3 in power.
A 6 speed would definitely be slower but not nearly as fun. But again, the R32 is more about refinement than speed. Sitting in one is the only way to really appreciate the car.
The MS3 is faster than a lot of cars in the 30-40k range, but it doesn't make it the same class. Edmunds did a good comparison between the MS3 and the new WRX, which I feel is a much better comparison.
R32 exhaust = (headbang)
I guess what i'm saying is, IMO you don't buy a R32 just for speed. If you want go to fast, you either buy a MS3, STI, EVO, or a GTI/WRX and modify.
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happy and angry
Member
-1,000,000,000
Do you have ANY idea how much of an improvement a 10 - 11 second reduction in lap times represents? Just to give you a rough idea:
http://www.topgear.com/content/tgonbbc2/laptimes/thestig/
Golf R32: 1:30.4
Subtract 10 seconds to the 1:20 second range and the first car is the Mercedes SLR McLaren. Bit of a jump in car performance, wouldn't you say?
People find 1 - 5 second lap time differences on the Nurburgring Nordschleife significant, and that track is 13 miles long with people putting up 8 and 9 minute laps. On a track that's a bit over a minute long and probably less than a mile in length, you think an extra 20 HP and slightly stiffer suspension is going to net you a 10% improvement in lap times? Kid, you must be dreaming.
No no no, what he meant to say was "throw a Cobb SRI on there..." (shady)
You are delusional if you think that a chipped GTI would put 10 cars on a stock Mazdaspeed 3. Look how many mods it takes for a GTI to just equal the time of a stock Mazdaspeed 3.
http://www.dragtimes.com/Volkswagen-GTI-Timeslip-9257.html
2004 Volkswagen GTI 1.8T BEK
1/4 Mile ET: 14.195
1/4 Mile MPH: 101.000
Mods:
Engine: 1.8T 180HP BEK (brazilian engine)
Turbos: K03S stock
Boost Control: Manual Boost controller (grainger)
Boost Pressure (psi): 22
Intercooler: Ebay
Intake & Air Filter: K&N Replacement
Headers (downpipe): 3
Race Pipe (No cat) 2.5
Exhaust: 2.25
Computer ECU Chip Upgrade: Revo Stage 2
Spark Plugs: NGK
Clutch/Torq Conv: Sachs for vr6
Flywheel: Ecstuning 280mm
Suspension: Koni, neuspeed
Wheels: BBS 16
Brake Rotors/Pads: Axxis Ultimate
Tires Falken Azenis RT215
http://www.dragtimes.com/Volkswagen-GTI-Timeslip-2426.html
1996 Volkswagen GTI VR6 Turbo
1/4 Mile ET: 14.150
1/4 Mile MPH: 101.550
Mods:
Engine: 2.8L VR6T
Turbos: T3/4
Boost Pressure (psi): 6psi
Intake & Air Filter: Neuspeed P-Flow
Headers (downpipe): custom
Midpipe: custom
Exhaust: Magnaflow
Carburetor: F/I
Computer ECU Chip Upgrade: C2 Motorsports
Spark Plugs: Bosch
Transmission: 5 Speed with Quaife
Clutch/Torq Conv: Sach's Sport
Flywheel: SK Lightened
Wheels: Mk4 Monte Carlo
Tires 205/40 z17
http://www.dragtimes.com/Volkswagen-GTI-Timeslip-13368.html
2002 Volkswagen GTI 337
1/4 Mile ET: 13.928
1/4 Mile MPH: 102.760
Mods:
Engine: 1.8 L I-4
Turbos: K03
Boost Control: Stealth manual boost controller
Boost Pressure (psi): 22
Intake & Air Filter: AEM cold air
Headers (downpipe): 42DD 3
Computer ECU Chip Upgrade: GIAC chip
Battery: optima red top
Transmission: 02M six speed
Clutch/Torq Conv: Spec stage 2+
Suspension: Eibach springs
Wheels: 18
Brake Rotors/Pads: PBR axxis
Tires Toyo Proxes4
Delusional? I think you're just incapable of comprehending a simple post. Either that or you just didn't bother to read.
For one, I was referring to a MK5 GTI, not a 1.8T. Depending on what stage 3 kit you go with, you can see up to 400+ HP on the 2.0T (with other supporting mods). This gives you a rough cost of 30k to greatly exceed the performance of a stock MS3. My point was only to show that it doesn't cost 10k to only gain 0.4 sec on the 1/4 mile over the MS3, and that a $600 chip would almost get it there alone.
Secondly, a stage 2 1.8T (chip, full turboback, intake & BPV (not that they really do much for the 1.8T) and maybe a stiffer engine mount, will get into the 13's with some work. With 230-240 lbs/tq to the wheels with no way to really limit it made first and second gears almost useless as you spun for the first 60 feet.
I understand stock for stock the MS3 is faster than both by a land slide (with the help of a bigger motor and bigger turbo), i'm only trying to shed a little light on the subject.
For one, I was referring to a MK5 GTI, not a 1.8T. Depending on what stage 3 kit you go with, you can see up to 400+ HP on the 2.0T (with other supporting mods). This gives you a rough cost of 30k to greatly exceed the performance of a stock MS3. My point was only to show that it doesn't cost 10k to only gain 0.4 sec on the 1/4 mile over the MS3, and that a $600 chip would almost get it there alone.
Secondly, a stage 2 1.8T (chip, full turboback, intake & BPV (not that they really do much for the 1.8T) and maybe a stiffer engine mount, will get into the 13's with some work. With 230-240 lbs/tq to the wheels with no way to really limit it made first and second gears almost useless as you spun for the first 60 feet.
I understand stock for stock the MS3 is faster than both by a land slide (with the help of a bigger motor and bigger turbo), i'm only trying to shed a little light on the subject.
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I just wanted to say that my last car was an 03 GTi 1.8t and this car destroys it in every test possible except the parking in the city. Otherwise, the MS3 is a whole new level of car.
As for the Mk5 Gti, I priced them out before I bought the MS3 and with options, I was being quoted at around 28k. So are you saying (I haven't done research on this so I am depending on yours) that a stage 3 kit on that car will only cost around 2-3K?
As for the Mk5 Gti, I priced them out before I bought the MS3 and with options, I was being quoted at around 28k. So are you saying (I haven't done research on this so I am depending on yours) that a stage 3 kit on that car will only cost around 2-3K?
I was quoted $24,3XX awhile back for the 2-door with a sun roof. APR Stage-3 kit would cost you 6k + labor + exhaust. I haven't been involved with VW for awhile now so I don't know if there are cheaper kits out there, but 30K was a rough guess. You're probably talking 32-33k when all said and done. If you eliminate the sun roof (-1k) and negotiate from MSRP you can find yourself spending close to 30k.
happy and angry
Member
What are you even arguing in this thread? That you can get more performance if you spend money? Wow, that sure was insightful.
I just built a VW on their website and I chose some options that I know I would want to have no matter what and just a couple extra but nothing crazy. The total came out to be $29,400. On that site, it says the 0-60 time is 7.2 seconds. I know that some car companies are conservative with thier times but that's pretty slow.
I love the car and was "this" close to buying it but I still don't see how you can add a stage three whatever and get this car to destroy the MS3. Even if you got a bare bones stripper of a Mk5, it would be just as much as a MS3 after tax/tags and you won't have some of the same features. Besides the sun roof, the MS3 has it beat on options (with the GT package that I chose to include since the price is the same for both cars at around 23k).
Anyways, I never saw a Mk5 that was lower than 26k on the lot. If that stage 3 package is added to the mk5, what would the times be? To destroy the MS3, it would have to be some pretty sick numbers.
I love the car and was "this" close to buying it but I still don't see how you can add a stage three whatever and get this car to destroy the MS3. Even if you got a bare bones stripper of a Mk5, it would be just as much as a MS3 after tax/tags and you won't have some of the same features. Besides the sun roof, the MS3 has it beat on options (with the GT package that I chose to include since the price is the same for both cars at around 23k).
Anyways, I never saw a Mk5 that was lower than 26k on the lot. If that stage 3 package is added to the mk5, what would the times be? To destroy the MS3, it would have to be some pretty sick numbers.
happy and angry
Member
I was answering his question you nimwit.
BTW that link you posted is NOT a stage 3 GTI. It's actually still just a tiny K03.
That's a lot of options. Anyone who pays close to 30k for a GTI is nuts.
