Year 2 CX-90 changes?

[TimelessMazda]

He means handling. The GHH has more power but it handles like a boat. The CX-90 handling and driving dynamics are way better. They are both at the extreme of the range. The Honda Pilot sits in the middle of the two.

The CX-90 needs transmission tweaks however, it really does hurt its acceleration feel.

check out this comparison by Savage Geese, I don’t fully agree with them, but it shows well the difference between the two.

SUVs Compared | Mazda CX-90 vs Honda Pilot vs Grand Highlander

We compare the newest 2024 Mazda CX-90, Toyota Grand Highlander, and Honda Pilot. The test looks at interior and exterior features, including testing audio s...

youtu.be

They reviewed the cx90 very early in the release (and they release the review months after because of the issues with the car) and they also did this comparison with a model that wasn t updated. Curious to see they're oppinion after the car updates which fixes the transmission to a certain degree.
Its not going to be significantly faster due to the fact it engages first the electric motor in the transmission but maybe next years will manage to make the transmission and the transition faster.

I hope so too. Funny thing is the instant torque of the electric motor in the transmission should make it faster in theory, bit it looks like they had a hard time synchronizing it with the rest of the engine power delivery and then made it slow to engage somehow.

I believe they can fix it for the next few model years. Mazda have been listening to reviewers in the past, hopefully they keep that trend.

As someone that has test driven three different CX-90 PHEV Premium Plus models and also a CX-90 Turbo S Premium Plus, I can tell you that you are wrong. The Mazda does have a more weighted feel to the steering wheel but it FEELS heavy and sluggish compared to the GHH Max. The Max moves its weight around very nimbly and you would never think it weighs 4900 pounds.

The non PHEV CX-90 in SPORT mode feels the best out of all the CX-90 models.

I WANTED the CX-90 to be sporty and nimble. I was sure I'd get one. But after many test drives it became apparent that Mazda needs more time to get it right.

 

[sm1ke]

I wonder if steering feel is being confused with nimbleness and handling? I used to think my Dad's Highlander was "nimble", turns out it just had a very light, almost twitchy steering feel.

 

[TimelessMazda]

I wonder if steering feel is being confused with nimbleness and handling? I used to think my Dad's Highlander was "nimble", turns out it just had a very light, almost twitchy steering feel.

It is kind of ludicrous to be discussing nimbleness and handling with a three row SUV that weighs about 5K pound.

However my wife has a 2016 CX-5 and I would put this 2024 GHH MAX at least on par with it. My wife agrees as well. Toyota did a great job hiding the weight with the battery boost.

I also have a 1990 Miata if I really want great handling.

Basically just wanted to make sure the fanboys tried out both before making a decision. I'm glad that I did.

 

[GTA-CX9]

I wonder if steering feel is being confused with nimbleness and handling? I used to think my Dad's Highlander was "nimble", turns out it just had a very light, almost twitchy steering feel.

This is just it.

I haven't driven these cars, own neither and are far from a fan boy. I've been quite critical of the 90.

But the Grand highlander, with all it's accolades and frankly rave reviews, it is often mentioned as not keeping up when it comes to driving dynamics. That's not a knock necessarily, most segment buyers don't want it to keep up.

Where the 90, the main thing they got right according to reviews in the handling.

Is it easy to drive? Not known to be. Heavy steering won't be easy, but it will allow entry and exit to a corner to happen with throttle, under control, smoothly. Do buyers want that in a 3 row? Prob not. But it's funny to have to defend the one thing they got right IMO (and when it's actually the cited downside for many). The fact it handles best in class is seem as a missed mark by many.

Would I take the floaty ride of a GH? No. But I'm not the heart of the 3 row market. But WRT the argument being made here, the GH is floaty from what I've read/watched. I suppose I could drive it to see, but am I going to know more than someone who has pushed the car for 2 days in a video test, when I'm going around town at the speed limit on a test drive?

Too often people confuse easy steering with nice handling, simply because it's easy. It's whyt the camry sells more than the old 6. That was the error of the 50, steering that weights up at speed, but is a pain in traffic. Good if you want an SUV to channel the spirit of a miata, not so good for most SUV buyers.

The TLDR of this all is, whether I think it handles better or not, the consensus seems to be pretty clear from what I've seen. I'll gladly watch a counterpoint though.

 

[TimelessMazda]

This is just it.

I haven't driven these cars, own neither and are far from a fan boy. I've been quite critical of the 90.

But the Grand highlander, with all it's accolades and frankly rave reviews, it is often mentioned as not keeping up when it comes to driving dynamics. That's not a knock necessarily, most segment buyers don't want it to keep up.

Where the 90, the main thing they got right according to reviews in the handling.

Is it easy to drive? Not known to be. Heavy steering won't be easy, but it will allow entry and exit to a corner to happen with throttle, under control, smoothly. Do buyers want that in a 3 row? Prob not. But it's funny to have to defend the one thing they got right IMO (and when it's actually the cited downside for many). The fact it handles best in class is seem as a missed mark by many.

Would I take the floaty ride of a GH? No. But I'm not the heart of the 3 row market. But WRT the argument being made here, the GH is floaty from what I've read/watched. I suppose I could drive it to see, but am I going to know more than someone who has pushed the car for 2 days in a video test, when I'm going around town at the speed limit on a test drive?

Too often people confuse easy steering with nice handling, simply because it's easy. It's whyt the camry sells more than the old 6. That was the error of the 50, steering that weights up at speed, but is a pain in traffic. Good if you want an SUV to channel the spirit of a miata, not so good for most SUV buyers.

The TLDR of this all is, whether I think it handles better or not, the consensus seems to be pretty clear from what I've seen. I'll gladly watch a counterpoint though.

Unfortunately I cannot find any specs to determine this like they do on sports cars.

What I can tell you is that putting the GHH Max in sport mode tightens up the steering wheel feel considerably. Gives it that heavy weighted feeling.

 

[Muggs1]

Artificial steering tightening without improvements to suspension and proper tunning won't do anything; hence the boat comparison.

 

[TimelessMazda]

Artificial steering tightening without improvements to suspension and proper tunning won't do anything; hence the boat comparison.

Again, until you can find performance specs for these two SUVs in question we cannot really know other than seat of the pants feel from someone that has driven both....which I am one of those.

 

[dougal]

Again, until you can find performance specs for these two SUVs in question we cannot really know other than seat of the pants feel from someone that has driven both....which I am one of those.

Like this:

https://www.caranddriver.com/toyota/grand-highlander-hybrid

and this

2024 Mazda CX-90 Review, Pricing, and Specs

Mazda has grown its presence in the mid-size SUV market with the 2024 CX-90, which features three rows, more luxury, and six-cylinder power.

www.caranddriver.com

What I found surprising is that the CX90 has much better highway MPG.

 

[sm1ke]

Found this video review comparing the GHH Max and the CX-90 Turbo S. At the 13:45 mark, he talks briefly about the suspension and steering, and provides a bit more info at the 14:50 mark.

2024 Toyota Grand Highlander Vs Mazda CX-90 // Battle of the BEST 3-Row SUVs

Deciding on the Mazda CX-90 Turbo S Premium 3.3L Mild-Hybrid Turbo or the Toyota Grand Highlander Hybrid Max Platinum? We're here to help you make that decis...

www.youtube.com

Now, having never driven either of these models, I can't say with total certainty that he's right, but what he's reporting seems to be in line with what most other reviewers are reporting.

 

[TimelessMazda]

Like this:

https://www.caranddriver.com/toyota/grand-highlander-hybrid

and this

2024 Mazda CX-90 Review, Pricing, and Specs

Mazda has grown its presence in the mid-size SUV market with the 2024 CX-90, which features three rows, more luxury, and six-cylinder power.

www.caranddriver.com

What I found surprising is that the CX90 has much better highway MPG.

Nice job finding this. I saw it but it did not say MAX anywhere so dismissed it.

From the comparisons (not same day and temps so YMMV) it looks like the Max is faster which I definitely new. The CX-90 is heavier by about 300 lbs. Possibly more battery weight due to PHEV.

The skidpad is .80g for the Max vs .83 for the CX-90.

The braking is less on the CX-90 as well.

In my seat of the pants testing the typical 20-40 30-50 every day accelerating (not WOT) is for sure better on the Max.

Now we stats to confirm things.

 

[dougal]

Nice job finding this. I saw it but it did not say MAX anywhere so dismissed it.

From the comparisons (not same day and temps so YMMV) it looks like the Max is faster which I definitely new. The CX-90 is heavier by about 300 lbs. Possibly more battery weight due to PHEV.

The skidpad is .80g for the Max vs .83 for the CX-90.

The braking is less on the CX-90 as well.

In my seat of the pants testing the typical 20-40 30-50 every day accelerating (not WOT) is for sure better on the Max.

Now we stats to confirm things.

Well, 0.80 for GH and 0.85 for the Mazda. The hybrid is fast - no question about that.

 

[TimelessMazda]

Well, 0.80 for GH and 0.85 for the Mazda. The hybrid is fast - no question about that.

Not that it really matters with such a small difference.

https://www.caranddriver.com/mazda/cx-90-hybrid

.83 in that article.

 

[GTA-CX9]

Not that it really matters with such a small difference.

https://www.caranddriver.com/mazda/cx-90-hybrid

.83 in that article.

Driving around a circle to get the g number has never been a great way to judge handling IMO, but I suppose quantifying something such as weight transfer, steering communication, steering weight and quickness to turn isn't really possible so it's the best we have.

The telluride is an acknowledged boat, but rates 0.79 to the cx90's 0.81 (see below). The numbers don't always capture things.

Mind you, car and driver gives me fits these days when they have an overall ranking for cars in a specific test like this one (CX90 places 1st):

2024 Three-Row SUV Throwdown

After three years of dominance, the Kia Telluride finally has some serious competition. We convene four fresh contenders—Honda Pilot, Jeep Grand Cherokee L, Mazda CX-90, and Toyota Grand Highlander—aiming to upset the crossover hierarchy.

www.caranddriver.com

But then in the review for each model individually, when it shows the ranking of all the vehicles in the class, it differs (Telluride first, GH 2nd and 3rd, CX90 4th). See middle of this review for rank:

https://www.caranddriver.com/toyota/grand-highlander

Going beyond the handling, with reviews, sometimes I don't know what to think.

 

[sm1ke]

Going beyond the handling, with reviews, sometimes I don't know what to think.

I guess that's where gathering info from more sources and driving both cars for yourself would come into play.

 

[heywardjr]

Does anyone know of any aftermarket solutions to help with large dogs in this area? I know she can travel in the back area with the third row down but she will want to get into the second row area for sure. Some sort of a device that takes the second row when folded down and evens it out so a dog could walk around would be super ideal.

There are options to prevent dogs from going past the third row area. Take a look at Orvis website for pets. They have bars that you can add. I did that for my 22 Lincoln Corsair when I had it before the Mazda purchase.

Personally, I like havi ghr third row folded down all the time which gives me tons of room to haul stuff and it is flat. My two dogs love it back there.

 

[heywardjr]

- The matrix LED headlights that are available on the European CX60
- The bench seat spec. issue figured out (not available on upper trims) seems to be deterring folks away from the vehicle. I like the captain chairs but get why others want the bench.
- The transmission issues figured out
- Dark, real wood trim in the tan colour interior option
- Tweak the sunroof design so it opens more
- Make the digital rear view mirror standard in top trim spec. with modest increase in cost of vehicle
- Full touch screen all the time so people would stop complaining about it
- More customizable gauges
- Change in shifter operation so it makes a bit more sense to everyone
- Change the remote start system so it doesn't turn the car off when you first open a door

Some of these are probably easier tweaks than others.

JUst to add that matrix LED headlights are not fully approved yet in the US. It's coming but slowly.

 

[TimelessMazda]

There are options to prevent dogs from going past the third row area. Take a look at Orvis website for pets. They have bars that you can add. I did that for my 22 Lincoln Corsair when I had it before the Mazda purchase.

Personally, I like havi ghr third row folded down all the time which gives me tons of room to haul stuff and it is flat. My two dogs love it back there.

Appreciate the response. Problem is she likes to put her head out the passenger windows....which is not really feasible from the way back.