MS3 + Used Miata or S2000?

[AutoXRacer]

Biggest misnomer about the S2000 ever. You obviously haven't driven a 2004+ with the 2.2L. My S2k was faster than my '99 Miata everywhere in the RPM band. Face it, the Miata is SLOW without spending money on aftermarket FI. I mean it's a 16 second 1/4 car, whereas the S2000 is a 14 second car. That's a huge difference in acceleration. I drove my S2k as a daily driver for almost 4 years and it was never a burden to drive because of lack of torque. I've got video of me accelerating through a few gears in my S2k. I'll have to post'm to Youtube. You will tailor your driving to the car. If you're used to shifting at 3k RPM, it's not going to work in the S2k. With a 8,200 RPM redline, it's very common to shift around 4-5k and the motor doesn't even sound like it's phased by it. That's what it was built for. Hand built, by the way. How many motors and cars today can you say are hand assembled? The S2000 is. Don't get me wrong, the Miata is a great car, but I used to see the same arguement over at Miata.net when I owned mine about the S2000 vs. Miata. That pissing match seemed to come up every other day and people would throw out BS about the S2000 being torqueless and hard to drive around town. This was coming from people who's Miata had like 110lb-ft of torque. Then the ones who had owned both came in and raise the BS flag.

I've had S2K owners tell me it was annoying to drive the S2K...maybe it was the pre2004 owners. But like I said, an FI Miata will be a lot more fun to drive...

What's an S2K numbers? 200HP and 140 ft-lbs at the wheels? My modded NA 99 Miata had 150 HP and 135 ft-lbs, S2K weren't that much faster... I used to pull of of the hole...

Anyway, this is not a Miata vs. S2K war... These are just my personal experience with both cars.

Just for pooning's sake...don't get a Miata; I still get gay jokes for being an ex-Miata owner... Actually, I still get them for owning a Mazda... (lol2)

 

[Vord]

223 and about 146 torque.

Perhaps a modded miata will do so. But remember the miata is about 900 lbs ligher (1st gen., second gens are about 600-700 and the most recent ones are about 400).

 

[Hyun]

they are both nice cars. Honestly though if i had a choice and money wasnt the issue, i would take s2k. It is nicer car and has vtec.

 

[zoomzone]

All the talk about the Miata being slower than the S2000 doesn't seem to work here. If you are buying the Miata to drive fast, you are buying the wrong car. The reason to get a Miata is the 50/50 wieght distribution and superior handling.

In your situation, the MS3 is there for go fast, and the used Miata will be there for leisurely drives with the top down (with some fun in the twisties), and possibly commuting and gas saving.

 

[MS3077]

they are both nice cars. Honestly though if i had a choice and money wasnt the issue, i would take s2k. It is nicer car and has vtec.

I-VTEC YO! (ricer)

 

[MS3077]

All the talk about the Miata being slower than the S2000 doesn't seem to work here. If you are buying the Miata to drive fast, you are buying the wrong car. The reason to get a Miata is the 50/50 wieght distribution and superior handling.

In your situation, the MS3 is there for go fast, and the used Miata will be there for leisurely drives with the top down (with some fun in the twisties), and possibly commuting and gas saving.

You are correct but it's still a hard decision for me to make as I have a throbbing hard-on for the S2000.

I apologize if that was a bit too graphic for some of yous.

 

[FrequentFlyer]

223 and about 146 torque.

Perhaps a modded miata will do so. But remember the miata is about 900 lbs ligher (1st gen., second gens are about 600-700 and the most recent ones are about 400).

My 2004 S2k weighed 2850lb's with me in it. My '99 Miata weighed about 2400lb with me in it. I know because I've weighed them both on a scale when I had them. The NC Miata's are 2500-2600lb.

I had a Jackson Racing SC on my Miata at one time, running about 4.5psi. It was a fun car. Troublesome, but fun. At the time, engine management was abit lackluster and my SC kit didn't run so well. I know there are more options these days, but then again, there are a lot more options for the S2k these days also. Jackson has just come out with a Rotrex SC for the S2k. You can't compare one modded to the other stock.

Bang for the buck wise, you'd probably be better off with the Miata, yes. If you want something cheap to tinker with and throw money into, you can find a '00 Miata for less than $9,000. Hey, why not look for a used Mazdaspeed Miata? Miatas are known for crappy resale value. When Mazda has made almost a million of these cars, they're a dime a dozen.

 

[FrequentFlyer]

I-VTEC YO! (ricer)

It doesn't have I-VTEC... yo.

Just plain old VTEC. The F20/22c motors didn't have it. The K20A's in the RSX's and Civic's have I-VTEC and are actually a more advanced motor than the S2000 motor, but just don't have as high of compression and don't flow as well. If they could put I-VTEC in the F motors, they'd make even more power than they do now.

 

[Hyun]

If i were to drive miata, you better believe i will follow these rules and plaster wang all over my car (rlaugh)

Just saw this on Muff's co-driver's sig on SoloAtlanta:


Gotta know what W.A.N.G. stands for.

We Are Not Gay - two dudes in a Miata...

I also like CHU_MY_PU's sig:
Rules 4 MX5 Owners:
1 To avoid confusion, 2 heterosexual men in the same Miata must be wearing helmets.
2 Racing stripes are for racing Miatas.
3 Roll bars take you off the gaydar. Style Bars do not.

Steve and I were debating what CHUMYPU meant on that guy's tag while sitting behind him waiting for our run. I guess that clears that up.

 

[MS3077]

It doesn't have I-VTEC... yo.

Just plain old VTEC. The F20/22c motors didn't have it. The K20A's in the RSX's and Civic's have I-VTEC and are actually a more advanced motor than the S2000 motor, but just don't have as high of compression and don't flow as well. If they could put I-VTEC in the F motors, they'd make even more power than they do now.

Gotcha, from my understanding the motor in the S2000 is basically maxed out. There isn't much more power if any to be had from it. Still impressive though, 237hp from a 2.2L N/A is quite an achievement.

 

[FrequentFlyer]

Gotcha, from my understanding the motor in the S2000 is basically maxed out. There isn't much more power if any to be had from it. Still impressive though, 237hp from a 2.2L N/A is quite an achievement.

You can get a little more here and there, but it's definitely not cheap to do so keeping it normally aspirated. You can probably get the F22C's up to 230-240whp and they dyno 210-215 stock. They are definitely not like the K20's that can get 25-30whp from a CAI and race header.

 

[Vord]

My 2004 S2k weighed 2850lb's with me in it. My '99 Miata weighed about 2400lb with me in it. I know because I've weighed them both on a scale when I had them. The NC Miata's are 2500-2600lb.

I had a Jackson Racing SC on my Miata at one time, running about 4.5psi. It was a fun car. Troublesome, but fun. At the time, engine management was abit lackluster and my SC kit didn't run so well. I know there are more options these days, but then again, there are a lot more options for the S2k these days also. Jackson has just come out with a Rotrex SC for the S2k. You can't compare one modded to the other stock.

Bang for the buck wise, you'd probably be better off with the Miata, yes. If you want something cheap to tinker with and throw money into, you can find a '00 Miata for less than $9,000. Hey, why not look for a used Mazdaspeed Miata? Miatas are known for crappy resale value. When Mazda has made almost a million of these cars, they're a dime a dozen.

first gen miatas were still at about 2000lbs. Which is what he is looking at. and the 99' miata weight in at MOST 2300lbs so your number their is fine. as for the s2000 being 2850 with you in it, I would say bulls***. I have seen multiple s2000s weight at phantasm and not one weight in at 2850 with a person in it.

none the less, the miata has a huge weight advantage. 450lbs on the "heaviest" miata he is looking at is a big deal. we are looking at cars here were 450lbs is about 1/5th of weight of the miata.

 

[MS3077]

You can get a little more here and there, but it's definitely not cheap to do so keeping it normally aspirated. You can probably get the F22C's up to 230-240whp and they dyno 210-215 stock. They are definitely not like the K20's that can get 25-30whp from a CAI and race header.

CAI + Race header = New Civic Si with 225-230hp?? (uhm)

 

[MS3077]

How about cost of ownership? For example, Insurance rates? Higher for Speed3 or S2000? Gass mileage? Etc...

 

[Nismothecat]

when i bought my car the S2k was one of my choices and it was about the same price for insurance. but the S2k was an 02 and the MS3 was an 08 that may make a difference.


i test drove an 06 GTO, S2k and the MS3. interesting combo i thought

 

[MS3077]

So I was thinking more about this while driving the speed3 to and from work today... I think I would really miss the 280ft/tq or in my case with the intake about 296ft/tq. Full throttle burst in 2-4th gear is pretty damn remarkable and very entertaining. I mean it really is such a great over all little car and I can't find too many things that I don't like about it. I think I actually drifted thru a couple of corners today, damn was it fun I wish I could just win the lottery and not have to worry about money damnit! I would just keep the speed3 and buy a s2000 just because I could. The MOD bug is starting to itch me again...

 

[kneedragger241]

So I just realized that I fit choice (a). I own a MS3 and a "used" Miata.
I won't go into the debate over how a Miata is better (or not) than an S2000, but if given the choice between keeping the two cars I have now or trading them both for an S2000 of any year, including the new CR, I would definitely keep my two cars.

Why?
I have one car with power, great handling, and the practicality of space and comfort combined with acceptable gas mileage. The other car is a roadster that is cheap to maintain and tons of fun to drive and mod.
I have two fun cars that meet all of my needs.

In case anyone cares, my Miata has the following anti-gayness modifications:
- home-grown SRI
- P&P and milled head
- Jackson Racing anti-sway bars
- adjustable heim joint end links
- Koni shocks
- Ground Control coil-over kit
- Thermal R&D stainless exhaust with test-pipe
- Jackson Racing header
- turn signal intakes
- billet shift knob
- push button start
- Sparco racing seats with Sabelt 6-point harnesses
- Hard Dog roll-over bar
- video camera mount
- 16x7 5-spoke wheels with 205/45 Kumho Ecsta in front and 215/45 in rear
- 13x9 Diamond Racing with 245/50 Hoosier Autocrosser
- Driver Mod

 

[Super Unique]

So I just realized that I fit choice (a). I own a MS3 and a "used" Miata.
I won't go into the debate over how a Miata is better (or not) than an S2000, but if given the choice between keeping the two cars I have now or trading them both for an S2000 of any year, including the new CR, I would definitely keep my two cars.

Why?
I have one car with power, great handling, and the practicality of space and comfort combined with acceptable gas mileage. The other car is a roadster that is cheap to maintain and tons of fun to drive and mod.
I have two fun cars that meet all of my needs.

In case anyone cares, my Miata has the following anti-gayness modifications:
- home-grown SRI
- P&P and milled head
- Jackson Racing anti-sway bars
- adjustable heim joint end links
- Koni shocks
- Ground Control coil-over kit
- Thermal R&D stainless exhaust with test-pipe
- Jackson Racing header
- turn signal intakes
- billet shift knob
- push button start
- Sparco racing seats with Sabelt 6-point harnesses
- Hard Dog roll-over bar
- video camera mount
- 16x7 5-spoke wheels with 205/45 Kumho Ecsta in front and 215/45 in rear
- 13x9 Diamond Racing with 245/50 Hoosier Autocrosser
- Driver Mod

Now this guy gets "it"

There is a racing heritage and cachet to the miata that the s2000 will never obtain. True enough it's raced too, but nowhere near the amount of people in it before you, which yields incredible amounts of data on mods, and ways to improve an already impressive package. Many folks do smallblock 8 swaps into the miata but in my opinion that destroys the balance of the package. Now, heavily fortify the 4 cyl mill and FI will get you there

 

[MS3077]

So I just realized that I fit choice (a). I own a MS3 and a "used" Miata.
I won't go into the debate over how a Miata is better (or not) than an S2000, but if given the choice between keeping the two cars I have now or trading them both for an S2000 of any year, including the new CR, I would definitely keep my two cars.

Why?
I have one car with power, great handling, and the practicality of space and comfort combined with acceptable gas mileage. The other car is a roadster that is cheap to maintain and tons of fun to drive and mod.
I have two fun cars that meet all of my needs.

In case anyone cares, my Miata has the following anti-gayness modifications:
- home-grown SRI
- P&P and milled head
- Jackson Racing anti-sway bars
- adjustable heim joint end links
- Koni shocks
- Ground Control coil-over kit
- Thermal R&D stainless exhaust with test-pipe
- Jackson Racing header
- turn signal intakes
- billet shift knob
- push button start
- Sparco racing seats with Sabelt 6-point harnesses
- Hard Dog roll-over bar
- video camera mount
- 16x7 5-spoke wheels with 205/45 Kumho Ecsta in front and 215/45 in rear
- 13x9 Diamond Racing with 245/50 Hoosier Autocrosser
- Driver Mod

Sounds like you got quite the combo! I do realize that the Miata's are great little roadsters and have massive potential but I'm not so sure I want to get into "modding" hard core. I'm sure that if I had a Miata with a similar set up as you I would be more than happy with it. However, I really don't want to have to "mod" the Miata like crazy to get it to the level I want it. Someone mentioned that the Miata stock is like a 16 sec car, this is acceptable lol! So I know I it would need some "work" if I bought one which I'm not too found of you can call me a sissy, its okay... You know I've done a few mods to the MS3 and it’s been fun doing it but I sort of would rather not have to feel the need to mod a car. I understand a lot of ppl really enjoy doing it but I don't have much experience with it and quite frankly it scares me. So here’s a question, say I spend about 10k on a used 99-01 miata. How much $$ would I need to spend and what "mods" would be needed for it to run say a 14.0-14.8 sec 1/4? I understand that 1/4 times aren't everything but I would at least like it to be sorta fast if you know what I mean.

 

[MS3077]

Super Unique - I think you should give the Honda S2000 a little more credit. It might not have quite the history or heritage as the Miata but it's defiantly race inspired and does have heritage.