Oil Squirters

[yashooa]

They were notched deep enough but too wide at the lower skirt wall. I had 2 sets of the old design pistons stock and .020 overbore and 2 different machine shops did both. Picture shows the comparison between a stock cutout vs modified and unmodified old design.

Another thing you can't TAP them in too deep when you are not using a press!

My apologies I did not mean to imply that you were being cheap
I mean if someone reads the thread etc. and you had an earlier set right?

 

[JDM Sam]

Yes, before he told them to change the notching. Most all, definitely not cheap b/c I ended up spending another $700-800 redoing the whole ******* build to fix those pistons and oil jets.

I could have bought a set of high end pistons from JE or Wiseco custom made with all the coatings you can imagine from the get go if I didn't make the mistake of going with these due to time constraint. That was worthless because I incurred an extra month of downtime redoing all that s***! Pissed off is an understatement to say the least!

After I did my engine, I did my friends engine with the .020 over and sent it to another machine shop and we made sure they checked the notch and told him if it wasn't enough to make the modifications needed. Sure enough, they cut a chunk of the corner where I grinded mine down. www.kimbarrracingengines.com

 

[yashooa]

Yes, before he told them to change the notching. Most all, Definitely not cheap b/c I ended up spending another $700-800 redoing the whole ******* build to fix those pistons and oil jets.

I could have bought a set of high end pistons from JE or Wiseco custom made with all the coatings you can imagine from the get go if I didn't make the mistake of going with these due to time constraint. That was worthless b/c I had an extra month of downtime redoing all that s***!

It's not easy be a pioneer. (cabpatch)
Well I am glad you "tested" them.

 

[JDM Sam]

It's not easy be a pioneer. (cabpatch)
Well I am glad you "tested" them.

My loss was yours and my friend's "GAIN". B/c of that Edwin had the info from my pics to ensure your's didn't have the same outcome
by emphasizing to Automotive Machine to check it. And b/c of me that's why he had the design changed again for the notching.

 

[yashooa]

My loss was yours and my friend's "GAIN". B/c of that Edwin had the info from my pics to ensure your's didn't have the same outcome
by emphasizing to Automotive Machine to check it. And b/c of me that's why he had the design changed again for the notching.

Yes, Automotive does some sweet ass work. And Edwin is like a little, anal retentive car Samurai.

 

[JDM Sam]

So, I want to bring this thread back from the dead. Not the attitudes expressed in this thread, but this the facts. Now, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it is my understanding that the first run or so of Arias pistons were not machined with an adequate oil squirter notch in them, and Sam had one set of these. Since then, this has been remedied (I've had 3 sets of Arias pistons in the last 2 years, and all 3 have had a really predominant oil notch actually.)

Now my question is this. What clearance are we looking for exactly? Back many pages, dana took a paperclip and measured the clearance to be 1.1mm. If I recall correctly, that was my engine he did that on. And since then, I've had no problems choppping squirters in the 2 times it's been rebuilt since then. So, I put my overbore motor together last night, and I have about the same clearance. Basically, I bent the squirters (they are new btw, the block was bored 20 over) as far down as I could before they hit the crank. I'm super paranoid here, but I'm still dying to know how much clearance is enough. Arias reccomends piston to wall clearance of 4 thou, that leads me to believe that they don't expand too much at all when hot. They're 2031 alloy IIRC. So how much clearance we lookin for here?

3 times and you still go back to using them? Fool me once shame on you, Fool me twice shame on me?

Just compare them to stock. The notch should look like the stock.

LIKE THESE:
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=118614

If it looks like this then you're good.

 

[Maxx Mazda]

Mine have always had just a hair more room than your pic. Those other pistons look like Wiseco's. What coating is that?

 

[Kooldino]

I'll have to double check (I still have the old pistons) but I think they were cut out just like the two sets latter.

I can guarantee you that the notches in the first one weren't as big.

Are these notches enlarged by you or Arias?

Arias.

My concern lies with ensuring the pistons remain balanced, as they would be coming from Arias.

Give me a little credit, eh?

This is the main point of my ressurection. When building an engine, everything has specs. Ring gap, endplay, everything. We need some figure (if Arias provided it on their spec sheet even, it would be ideal) that alludes to a minimum "squirter to piston clearance."

They don't give a clearance for that. It's not their job to. They've never seen an FS motor, they make the piston that I tell them to make.

If 1.1mm is more than adequate (as I personally have proved) then do we say that that's the minimum? That's all I'm tryin to do here, set someting up that says "make sure you have x thou for piston expansion."

Let's set that as the minimum until someone proves success with a tighter number.

Can the squirters be clocked once fully pressed in?

Yes. That's why they have a hex head. If you clock them correctly you can pick up a lot of clearance.

I only barely bent mine to be positive last night, I didn't want to break them...

Yeah, don't bend them much, or you may break them.

 

[Kooldino]

3 times and you still go back to using them? Fool me once shame on you, Fool me twice shame on me?

Excuse me? You're out of line.

 

[Kooldino]

Mine have always had just a hair more room than your pic.

Go figure. (deadhorse

 

[Maxx Mazda]

Ya I'm not tryin to make anyone out to be the dumbass here lol...

 

[JDM Sam]

Mine have always had just a hair more room than your pic. Those other pistons look like Wiseco's. What coating is that?

When did you get yours? Dino can't seem to come to face the truth I had a bad set. Just like you and I know about the little sharp riser in the center of the dish on the piston. Did you have to file yours down there? For those who do not know why its bad, that riser can cause hot spots in the chamber which lead to detonation!

Yes, they are Wisecos and thats the moly coating it comes with on the skirt. The new coating they use now looks even better than that one.

 

[JDM Sam]

Dino, by the way quit spewing crap about that being my first FS. I had to do a piston ring and valve seals on my FS 626 way before you had your MP3! I've been doing tuning and performance since I learned how to drive at 16. I was working in shops fixing cars before you even got your car! I've seen more higher performance engines than this simple little motor called the FS.

 

[Kooldino]

When did you get yours? Dino can't seem to come to face the truth I had a bad set.

You didn't have a bad set, your pistons were exactly like maxx's pistons, and the 100 pistons before that.

You can't seem to face the truth and admit that you didn't quite line them up properly.

Just like you and I know about the little sharp riser in the center of the dish on the piston. Did you have to file yours down there? For those who do not know why its bad, that riser can cause hot spots in the chamber which lead to detonation!

Do you have any proof of this being an issue with these pistons? Arias makes them that way for a reason. Stop bashing my product.

 

[Kooldino]

Dino, by the way quit spewing crap about that being my first FS. I had to do a piston ring and valve seals on my FS 626 way before you had your MP3!

If you didn't do the oil squirters and pistons in the motor, then it's irrelevant.

I've been doing tuning and performance since I learned how to drive at 16.

Again, what does that have to do with you not installing the squirters properly?

I was working in shops fixing cars before you even got your car! I've seen more higher performance engines than this simple little motor called the FS.

I don't care if you invented the internal combustion engine. Man up and admit that you didn't install the squirters properly.

 

[Maxx Mazda]

I don't even need to go to my Dad's house to look, I had pics up here all along. This is one of the original Arias pistons installed in my engine by dana himself, not any of the two sets I've recieved since. Dana is right, there is a good sized oil squirter cutout, it can be seen clear as day.

That being said, the new pistons I have have a much LARGER cutout for the squirter, as Dana has also said. The one thing I can agree with Sam on though is that the edges around the valve lands, etc were sharp on my first and second set of pistons. It's hard to tell from those pics, but the pistons I JUST got like 3 weeks ago had the sharp edges shaved down which better prevents hotspots. I don't know if this was intentional on Arias' behalf, but I'm not complaining.

It's hard to tell from Sam's pics (namely the one comparing his original Arias to to stocker, it was taken at an oblique angle and doesn't really show if the cutout is deep enough) what's going on here, but I put forth some evidence from my own experience.

Pics here:

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3322051&postcount=50

 

[JDM Sam]

If you didn't do the oil squirters and pistons in the motor, then it's irrelevant.



Again, what does that have to do with you not installing the squirters properly?



I don't care if you invented the internal combustion engine. Man up and admit that you didn't install the squirters properly.

THIS ISN'T VENDOR BASHING THIS IS A FIRST PERSON REVIEW OF A PRODUCT. GET IT IN YOUR MIND THAT ITS NOT BASHING.

The 626 is relevant since you have to take the oil squirters out to hone the block and reinstall new ones! You man up that you had a bad design in the originals! How many other engines have you built beside this one!? none? I have more experience than you think.
The oil jets were installed correctly by me and by the machine shop on both sets! You want to argue with a machinist who has seen more engines than everyone here? Go for it the link is up there.

I had the said machine shop assemble the .020 overbore set to prove that it wasn't just my set and they grinded the width of the cutout because there wasn't enough clearance from being too wide and would hit! We used new OEM Mazda oil jets in both sets! Your pistons don't come balanced from the factory either!

Look at where it hit the edge in the picture! If your pistons were designed correctly, the oil jet cut out would resemble the stock pistons and why you change the design!? hmmm?!?

Oh and last time I remember you telling me your oil jet broke off in your motor, so using your logic it was your fault because you installed it wrong!

You keep publically calling me an idiot, I will keep telling the world about my experience with Arias pistons. Cuz I know plenty of people who said you already do behind the scenes.

 

[Kooldino]

THIS ISN'T VENDOR BASHING THIS IS A FIRST PERSON REVIEW OF A PRODUCT. GET IT IN YOUR FORUMS MIND THAT ITS NOT BASHING.

You've said nothing but negative things about the pistons, all while shamelessly plugging your own.

It is relevant you have to take the oil squirters out to hone the block and reinstall new ones!

You can hone it without removing the squirters.

you man up that you had 2 bad sets!

Bwahahaha, now it's 2 bad sets? Oh dear. Dude, the pics you posted comparing them to the stock pistons are exactly what the rest of them looked like. I wish I was wrong just so this crap can be over with, but that's just not the case. Go look at the pistons that Maxx Mazda posted with the original skirt cuts. They're exactly like the ones you posted. The difference? I built his, you built yours.

How many other engines have you built beside this one!? none? I have more experience than you think.

(screwy)

Really? You honestly think that I haven't built more than just maxx's engine? Did you not read my earlier posts in this thread stating that I built countless FS motors with Arias pistons myself and never encountered your issue?
I build these motors nonstop. I've hand built dozens of these engines over the years. Check your attitude, you're making yourself look like a fool.

Oh, btw, if you weren't "bashing" me before, you clearly are now since you're basically calling me a novice. Funny, because you're the one who can't manage to build the motor properly.

I had the said machine shop assemble the .020 overbore set to prove that it wasn't just my set and they grinded the width of the cutout because it was too wide!

Like I said, they are tricky. With the original skirt design, it was probably less work to cut it deeper than it was to fiddle with the squirters, which is why I had them cut them super deep after that. That way no one had to tinker with the jets so much.

Oh and last time I remember you telling me your oil jet broke off in your motor, so using your logic it was your fault because you installed it wrong!

That was on an old motor i built for myself with CP pistons, not these arias pistons.

About two years after I had built it, I was low on oil and running the car hard. When I went to change the oil, I had lost a squirter. My best guess is that the low oil had something to do with the squirter getting clipped, but regardless it was my fault. The car should have never been low on oil.

Furthermore, a single squirter clipping 2 years later versus all four clipping on day 1 are two totally different things.

 

[JDM Sam]

We can agree to disagree all day, and I will stand in my position and assert it was not installer error. However, we can both agree that there are variances in the OEM oil jet where it is welded as an assembly which could have been the issue. This thread is a moot point as the piston design has changed. No one new will will see that design again since its no longer made. Attacking each other's credibility is useless as it is going no where. The best solution is to lock this thread as is. If anyone has an issue or concern about oil jet clearance, don't drag my name into the fray as I want nothing with it.

 

[Kooldino]

^Yup. I gave Sam a call earlier, and we decided that this is a pointless battle since the part in question no longer exists.

The issue with sam's personal motor may very well have been a variance in the oil squirters. We both agreed that he did in fact have the same notch in his pistons as everyone else did with the old design, but it was a close fit, and the variance in the oil squirter tubes alone could have been the culprit. Any Arias pistons I've sold in the past 10 months and in the future have a far larger notch cut in them. so like Sam said, it's a moot point.