also can the oil squirters be removed and the holes plugged???? what are the downside to this???? would a oil sump of some kind help????
Jeremy
Jeremy
Oil Squirters
- Thread starter Blake
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the whole base fell out...
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- MP5T / 944
It's impossible to BORE the pistons with the Oil Pistols installed. They interfere with the process..
If you are not getting it bored, there will not be a problem..
The new jet should be pressed in and it shouldn't fall out that easily unless the hole is too big and then it's time to look for a new block.
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And for you folks who think you can just bend the oil squirters down for more clearance, I tried that, and they still got sheared off by the JE Pistons!! I have learned a lot over the years. One of the main things is spend the money, and the time to do it right to save yourself potential headache down the road!
Maxx Mazda
Contributor
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- Stock P5
That being said, I was able to HONE my block wit hthe squirters still in. Gotta be careful though.
Maxx Mazda
Contributor
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- Stock P5
Dana did that with mine, no probs.
Maxx Mazda
Contributor
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- Stock P5
So, I want to bring this thread back from the dead. Not the attitudes expressed in this thread, but this the facts. Now, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it is my understanding that the first run or so of Arias pistons were not machined with an adequate oil squirter notch in them, and Sam had one set of these. Since then, this has been remedied (I've had 3 sets of Arias pistons in the last 2 years, and all 3 have had a really predominant oil notch actually.)
Now my question is this. What clearance are we looking for exactly? Back many pages, dana took a paperclip and measured the clearance to be 1.1mm. If I recall correctly, that was my engine he did that on. And since then, I've had no problems choppping squirters in the 2 times it's been rebuilt since then. So, I put my overbore motor together last night, and I have about the same clearance. Basically, I bent the squirters (they are new btw, the block was bored 20 over) as far down as I could before they hit the crank. I'm super paranoid here, but I'm still dying to know how much clearance is enough. Arias reccomends piston to wall clearance of 4 thou, that leads me to believe that they don't expand too much at all when hot. They're 2031 alloy IIRC. So how much clearance we lookin for here?
Now my question is this. What clearance are we looking for exactly? Back many pages, dana took a paperclip and measured the clearance to be 1.1mm. If I recall correctly, that was my engine he did that on. And since then, I've had no problems choppping squirters in the 2 times it's been rebuilt since then. So, I put my overbore motor together last night, and I have about the same clearance. Basically, I bent the squirters (they are new btw, the block was bored 20 over) as far down as I could before they hit the crank. I'm super paranoid here, but I'm still dying to know how much clearance is enough. Arias reccomends piston to wall clearance of 4 thou, that leads me to believe that they don't expand too much at all when hot. They're 2031 alloy IIRC. So how much clearance we lookin for here?
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- 2002 BJFW, 2007 BK3P, 1979 SA22C, 2005 BK3P
adjustment and installation is in the FS workshop manual, page 01-10-22. mazda specifies that from the base of the block to the base of the squirter there be 11mm. to reference this if the block were turned head facing down, you install the squirter and measure from the top of the nut to the surface of the block where the squirter fits. it also specifies pressure of 3.2 kN when installing them. if neither of these tolerances can be achieved, it recommends replacing the entire cylinder block.
You already have several flaws in your statement. Allow me to clear this up.
There was never an issue with the notch in the oil squirters. I sold 100 pistons with the original notches, and one of those sets of pistons were in the motor that I built for you, which didn't have clearance issues with the oil squirters.
After countless successful motor builds with no oil squirter issues with the original notch cutout, including your own motor, Sam had an issue with the squirters. It's the first FS he built, so I called it installer error while he blamed the piston.
From then on, I had ridiculously large notches cut into the skirts, as to basically idiot proof it, so that anyone could install the squirters blindfolded and still not have an issue. The upside is that it takes less time to build an engine now since you no longer have to line the squirters up properly.
That's correct. 1.1mm of clearance with the ORIGINAL notches. That's far from inadequate.
If you have 1mm of clearance you should be fine. Since you have the newer pistons with the silly cuts in them, you'll probably have much more than that. Make sure you clock the oil squirters to the right position.
Post pics if you're worried, but you should be fine.
Yep. They weren't the original JE Pistons from 2003 like mine.
2.0t03speed
Member
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- 08.5 CWP Speed 3
hmmm this is all very interesting stuff
Maxx Mazda
Contributor
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- Stock P5
I'll have to double check (I still have the old pistons) but I think they were cut out just like the two sets latter.
Not debating whether this is accurate or not, nor do I care what the mix up was. All I'm trying to do by reviving this thread is assure people that the piston design has been changed to reflect greater squirter clearance. Read: I am not saying there was no clearance before, jsut that now with the revision there is more.
Are these notches enlarged by you or Arias? My concern lies with ensuring the pistons remain balanced, as they would be coming from Arias.
This is the main point of my ressurection. When building an engine, everything has specs. Ring gap, endplay, everything. We need some figure (if Arias provided it on their spec sheet even, it would be ideal) that alludes to a minimum "squirter to piston clearance." If 1.1mm is more than adequate (as I personally have proved) then do we say that that's the minimum? That's all I'm tryin to do here, set someting up that says "make sure you have x thou for piston expansion."
Can the squirters be clocked once fully pressed in? I only barely bent mine to be positive last night, I didn't want to break them...
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- 2002 BJFW, 2007 BK3P, 1979 SA22C, 2005 BK3P
Arias makes the cuts in the pistons, not Dana. so there should be no worries in regards to proper balance on the pistons even with the new cuts.
it is possible, but time consuming, to clock the squirters once they are pressed in. you really have the ability to make minor adjustments, nothing huge, once they are pressed in.
it is possible, but time consuming, to clock the squirters once they are pressed in. you really have the ability to make minor adjustments, nothing huge, once they are pressed in.
Yeah, you can rotate them using a socket if you need to. It's preferable to line em up before you tap them in.
Scale the pistons each 1 by 1 to double check. If they aren't within 1 gram, bust out a dremel. You can grind away parts of the bottom of the piston to bring them back inline. Try and get em close as .5 grams.
Scale the pistons each 1 by 1 to double check. If they aren't within 1 gram, bust out a dremel. You can grind away parts of the bottom of the piston to bring them back inline. Try and get em close as .5 grams.
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Yep and you had the revised cutouts. Pictures speak for themselves.
Ah...ok no need to come at with a violent hug now. (confused)
So the moral of the story is don't be cheap have a badass machine shop with experience in FS-DE's put in new squirters and mock assemble it so they know exactly how the squirter drama will play out.
Of course TheMan with his mother hen instincts was bird-dogging the machine work as well.
Stock VS unmodified old design
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=118613
Stock VS modified old design
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=118612
They were notched deep enough but too wide at the lower skirt wall. I had 2 sets of the old design pistons stock and .020 overbore and 2 different machine shops did both. Picture shows the comparison between a stock cutout vs modified and unmodified old design.
Another thing you can't TAP them in too deep when you are not using a press!
And you are best to balance them as I called Arias to see if they came balanced and they told me no.
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=118613
Stock VS modified old design
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=118612
They were notched deep enough but too wide at the lower skirt wall. I had 2 sets of the old design pistons stock and .020 overbore and 2 different machine shops did both. Picture shows the comparison between a stock cutout vs modified and unmodified old design.
Another thing you can't TAP them in too deep when you are not using a press!
And you are best to balance them as I called Arias to see if they came balanced and they told me no.
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