Oil Squirters

[LinuxRacr]

I'm glad that level heads are prevailing here. Looking at the pictures above, that is the inside of the piston skirt, and comparing that to a stock piston, the stock piston is angled down, and to the inside there, while the Arias pistons have a flat grind there. This should be an easy fix hopefully going forward.

 

[LinuxRacr]

Bend them by hand to clear before installing..

If you bend them down, are they aimed in the right direction after that? Will that negate the functionality? I ask myself this.

 

[Kooldino]

What are you going to measure? a broken off stub?

No, the height from the top of the piston to the cut away in the skirt.

If you want 2 more comparisons to stock/factory pressed oil jets to compare I will take pics of Blake's 2 untouched engines tomorrow when I tear them down tomorrow. The stock piston even shows you the piston crown is angled downward to accommodate the jet arm. I'll take a pic of that to illlustrate.

I don't need a pic of that. I have a stock piston right in front of me. It's the one that Arias based all of these pistons off of.

Mine cleared on the test crankovers manually. Obviously, they didn't once the engine was fired up and run and the pistons expanded.

How long did it take to happen?

Dino, you even had a squirter that fell out out of no where recently. Did I go, "Oh you put your motor together you messed it up! It's your fault!" No, I didn't because I have the respect to give you the benefit of the doubt you know what you are doing.

No, but I also didn't blame it on the CP piston that I've been succesfully running for years. By my own neglect, I ran my car dangerously low on oil last summer (since I was buried with work on customer cars), and the next time I changed my oil, out came a squirter. Perhaps things heated up too much? Dunno. But I didn't automatically blame it on the piston.

This is not the first motor I've built. I've done way more complex engines such as the VG30DE and other Honda motors.

Is it the first FS-DE you've built?

Give the installer mistake/error excuse a rest.

Can't you even consider the possibility that you did something wrong? Or perhaps your rods are too short? Or your crank stroke is too long? There are a lot of variables here. Jumping to the conclusion that it's the fault of the piston with no direct proof isn't the best way to go here. Be open minded here.

I've already spoke to Arias and they offered to shave it down for me but wouldn't rebalance it so I said no I will just have my local machinist cut it down and rebalance it. I don't have the time nor the patience to send it back and wait 2 weeks to get my car back up and running.

Understandable.

I personally didn't want this to get out of hand because of what you are doing here, blaming installer error because these are your spec pistons and assuming this is tarnishing your product. I was resolving this myself behind the scenes.

If you were resolving this "behind the scenes" then why am I replying to a thread about it?

Blake knew about this because he is local and he talks to me at meets, so he was inquiring if anyone else had any iproblems before purchasing.

Well, he could have come to me insted of posting a thread about it. I'm sure he didn't intend it, but it doesn't make the product look good, whether it's a flawed piston or not. I would have given him an honest answer, which is "no, I haven't heard of any oil squirter issues with these pistons outside of Sam's case".

 

[Kooldino]

What if the squirters were bent?

Yet another possibility.

 

[Kooldino]

I'm glad that level heads are prevailing here.

???

The level heads are prevailing here?

So you're implying that everyone backing me up isn't level headed?

Earth to Patrick - No one is contesting the fact that the pistons contacted the squirters. The debate is WHY it occured. Being level headed would be investigating all possibilities before jumping to a conclusion.

 

[LinuxRacr]

???

The level heads are prevailing here?

So you're implying that everyone backing me up isn't level headed?

Earth to Patrick - No one is contesting the fact that the pistons contacted the squirters. The debate is WHY it occured. Being level headed would be investigating all possibilities before jumping to a conclusion.

Ok, Sidebar. Did you mis-understand my comment? I was calling YOU levelheaded, and Sam, because of his tone, and how you both are coming with facts of the matter, and not emotion. How twisted is that? A compliment getting turned

 

[Kooldino]

Sam - I just spoke to my Arias rep who you spoke to yesterday. He brought up a good point.

I recall you mentioning that you had some kind of issue with your rod bearings. Well, he pointed out that a bad rod bearing would essentially change the height of the entire assembly, and thus could be the root of your problem. Yet another thing to consider before jumping to conclusions.

Also, as a side note, he also mentioned that you tried to get these pistons directly from them (instead of going through me). If that's the case, that's a pretty shady move on your part. If that information is false, then disregard this paragraph. Either way, I have the exclusive on these pistons.

Good luck resolving your issue(s).

 

[Kooldino]

Ok, Sidebar. Did you mis-understand my comment? I was calling YOU levelheaded, and Sam, because of his tone, and how you both are coming with facts of the matter, and not emotion. How twisted is that? A compliment getting turned

I read it as "the stock pistons are cut differently from the arias, and therefore the arias must be wrong". It appeared as if you were against me here. Sorry if that's not the case.

In regards to your other comment - if you did have to slightly bend the oil squirter, it would not negate it's functionality (which in and of itself is debatable).

 

[Blake]

whoa there big cat my intentions were never to make the product look bad, look at my original post anywhere in there did I post about the pistons sucking ass? NO I DIDNT. I came to you after I posted my initial post and what happened....o you called me closed minded, dude you need to chill the f out man. No ones out to get you so get off defensive mode. Patrick said level heads are playing out cuz no one is getting up in arms like you just did. again THANKS FOR THE HELP.

 

[Captain KRM P5]

honestly the way i read the first post implied to me that it was automatically assumed that arias pistons and the oil squirters did not work together. just my .02

i also don't like the idea that people should have to 'win' or 'prevail' in a thread like this. i don't think that kind of mentality should be encouraged in the spirit of mutual understanding.

i haven't sold as many of these pistons as dana nor have i built as many engines as he has. from my own experience, the oil squirters are a very tricky element to make work. you cannot simply press them in, spin the crank, hear or see nothing and walk away. it took me literally hours to align my own squirters to where i felt they were right. if they cleared the rod, the didn't clear the piston, if they cleared the piston they didn't clear the rod, etc etc. i had to remove them and bend the necks, reangle them in the block and repeat the turning process. even when i heard no noise i went back and saw that they were making mild contact. i am not attacking anyone's credibility and i am not saying people who have these kinds of problems don't know how to build engines. i think its regrettable thats how this thread turned out. i do think its possible that mistakes can be made and honestly its more mathematically likely that human error is a factor when you have a problem with one set of pistons and hundreds of other pistons without a problem. there could be a problem with the pistons, it is possible. i just know from own experience in removing squirters and redoing them that its a very time consuming and exacting process to do right.

this is in part why i recommend going stock bore unless you absolutely must overbore - leaving the squirters alone allows you to still do a good hone and saves you ALOT of time, money, frustration and effort.

that said, people need to step back, take a deep breath and RELAX. its not worth four pages of wasted bandwidth.

 

[djarkitek]

.....(inout)

 

[JDM Sam]

The single rod journal was not shaved. It did not require anything more than a micropolish. It hit on all 4 cylinders. The rods are pauter shelf rods.

As for being shady, I was not. I'm not required to purchase Arias pistons from only you. They merely referred me to you as you have this specific application in stock. This is free trade my friend. I wanted a higher compression than your 8.5 compression and different specs including a skirt coating. Even Tom@ Arias recommends 9.1 on a street car. There's no shady business tactics going on at all. I wanted a completely different job card with pistons to my specs and not yours. I was pushed for time which why I ended up having to get your pistons from Ken.

Yes, I was trying to resolve this myself until my name was tossed into this and knowing already you would come in and suggest I erred up on the build, I have to come and clarify I did not.

The oil jets were brand new. All 4 couldn't have been bent. 1 got cut off completely, 3 other were just dangling on.

 

[Blake]

"anyone have success with arias pistons and oil squirters"

Im sorry to YOU ken, if it came off the wrong way but there was no other way to put it. I made a simple statement and all the sudden im closed minded. O well I guess thats what I get for needing help, ill just stay on my side of the fence for now on...

 

[JDM Sam]

Just delete this thread so everyone can be happy.

You blame me. I blame the piston. It's a lose/lose situation to both sides.

The fact is nothing hit on the clearancing on assembly, yet they still came in contact after engine was fired up most likely due to the forged piston expanding.

 

[Blake]

look guys the only reason I asked for help in the first place, is because I WAS going to use these pistons. Im on a time schedule, and have to have this done quick. I dont have another mode of transportation like some of you do. Im driving a ****** panel van that gets 4 miles to the gallon(think its illegal). I imed dino he came off harsh. So now I have a set of wiseco 9:1 pistons coming to my door, end of story thread is done problem is solved hasta luego.

 

[Kooldino]

whoa there big cat my intentions were never to make the product look bad, look at my original post anywhere in there did I post about the pistons sucking ass? NO I DIDNT.

Calm down, I never said you intended that. Reread my previous posts. What I did say is that regardless of your intentions, damage has been done.

I came to you after I posted my initial post and what happened....o you called me closed minded, dude you need to chill the f out man. No ones out to get you so get off defensive mode. Patrick said level heads are playing out cuz no one is getting up in arms like you just did. again THANKS FOR THE HELP.

(potkettle

 

[Kooldino]

honestly the way i read the first post implied to me that it was automatically assumed that arias pistons and the oil squirters did not work together. just my .02

My thoughts exactly. Not very tactful, IMO.

i do think its possible that mistakes can be made and honestly its more mathematically likely that human error is a factor when you have a problem with one set of pistons and hundreds of other pistons without a problem. there could be a problem with the pistons, it is possible. i just know from own experience in removing squirters and redoing them that its a very time consuming and exacting process to do right.

Bingo. My thoughts exactly.

that said, people need to step back, take a deep breath and RELAX. its not worth four pages of wasted bandwidth.

Werd.

 

[Kooldino]

The single rod journal was not shaved. It did not require anything more than a micropolish. It hit on all 4 cylinders. The rods are pauter shelf rods.

Fair enough.

The one that was broken...did it happen to be on the same cylinder as the one with the bad journal and/or bearing?

As for being shady, I was not. I'm not required to purchase Arias pistons from only you.

Well, you never technically purchased them through me, but through Ken who purchased them through me, but that's just semantics.

My problem was if you wanted to use my piston specs to purchase on your own.

Even Tom@ Arias recommends 9.1 on a street car.

That's fine, but Tom @ Arias is not a Protege tuner. Ultimately, higher compression will limit your top end, but that's another subject entirely.

There's no shady business tactics going on at all. I wanted a completely different job card with pistons to my specs and not yours.

If that's the case, then no problem there. I was just told otherwise, which is why I brought it up.

I was pushed for time which why I ended up having to get your pistons from Ken.

Not sure what any of that has to do with time since I ship them all out myself either way, but no problem. That's part of the reason I sell to Ken.

Yes, I was trying to resolve this myself until my name was tossed into this and knowing already you would come in and suggest I erred up on the build, I have to come and clarify I did not.

Again, how do you know for sure? Like I said, there are a LOT of variables here. Measure those pistons for me. Other than that, we're going in circles.

 

[Kooldino]

"anyone have success with arias pistons and oil squirters"

Im sorry to YOU ken, if it came off the wrong way but there was no other way to put it. I made a simple statement and all the sudden im closed minded. O well I guess thats what I get for needing help, ill just stay on my side of the fence for now on...

Hey, as I stated earlier, I took the post the same way Ken did. The way it's worded implies that there's a known issue/incompatibility here. It's a negative question. If you turned it around by asking "anyone have any issues with arias pistons and oil squirters" it would have had a different effect.

My issue wasn't you asking the question, it was your tact in doing so. And again, you could have come to me in the first place and avoided this whole mess. No one on this board knows these pistons better than I do.

 

[Kooldino]

Just delete this thread so everyone can be happy.

I don't like deleting things, but if Blake wants it closed, he can post so, and we can close it.

You blame me. I blame the piston. It's a lose/lose situation to both sides.

Ok.

The fact is nothing hit on the clearancing on assembly, yet they still came in contact after engine was fired up most likely due to the forged piston expanding.

The italics are my only discrepancy with you.