Sue Mazda?

[DiS]

Hey Yall,

Looks like my screws came loose too. I was told the #4 shutter or something was damaged. I have to replace the intake manifold and they still have to open her up and find where the screw went. They're askin $1900 for parts and labor. My P5 is at John Hine Mazda in San Diego. The lady I spoke too told me Mazda seems aware of this problem...quite common and Mazda may do a recall or pay for some of the cost of repair. Unfortunately I just past warranty - 53k miles. Damn. Let's hope Mazda does a recall.

I was not the 1st one to have this problem and even though my problem was taken care of (i lost 5 screws) Im still waiting for a damn recall to come out since last December!

 

[jdawg]

Same thing has happened to me.

4 times i've had the check engine light come on.

1st time - #4 cylinder spark plug gap was completely closed causing misfiring (mazda said a piece of carbon deposit hit the plug)

2nd time - #4 cylinder spark plug gap was comletely closed causing misfiring
(again, mazda said a piece of carbon deposit hit the plug. this was about 3 weeks after the first incident)

3rd time - sounded like a marble was inside the engine pinging around for about 2 minutes and then stopped. engine would not idle properly.
(mazda said EGR valve failed)

4th time - again, sounded like a marble was inside the engine pinging around for about 3 mintues and then stopped. engine would not idle properly.
(mazda said they had to reflash ECU)

luckily this happened at 79,850 kms and I found this site regarding the VICS screw. everything all makes sense now.

I'm willing to start this class action suit and do what ever is needed to stick it to Mazda.

Now I just have to convice the dealership that they need to do the work to fix the proper problem. I can't believe they wouldn't have know what the problem was, with four (4) tall tale signs.

 

[dinux]

This kind of sounds like what is going on with one of the local Protege5 owners cars. He's kind of a buddy of mine from the local forum (azmazdaclub.com). He turboed his P5 using a kit from Mental Addiction. Personal, Bo is a nice guy but the work he did sucked. The downpipe wasn't flush and was not cut evenly so it leaked (we sealed it) and there was another leak. Anyways, the car doesn't idle properly, when you push the gas with the car in nutural and hold it down and it goes to about 2500RPM and stops (if you rev it, it goes higher), there is a CEL with a Misfire code (we have replaced the spark plugs two times now) and I am not sure whatelse is wrong with it. Any ideas? Sound about right?

 

[jdawg]

This kind of sounds like what is going on with one of the local Protege5 owners cars. He's kind of a buddy of mine from the local forum (azmazdaclub.com). He turboed his P5 using a kit from Mental Addiction. Personal, Bo is a nice guy but the work he did sucked. The downpipe wasn't flush and was not cut evenly so it leaked (we sealed it) and there was another leak. Anyways, the car doesn't idle properly, when you push the gas with the car in nutural and hold it down and it goes to about 2500RPM and stops (if you rev it, it goes higher), there is a CEL with a Misfire code (we have replaced the spark plugs two times now) and I am not sure whatelse is wrong with it. Any ideas? Sound about right?

Did you hear anything really loud and clanking in the engine? Where the gaps on any of the replaced spark plugs reduced to 0?

If not, I don't think you've had the problem of the VICS screws.

 

[Mazda P5 driver]

My screw(s) fell out too recently. Right at about 31k miles.

It was covered though.

Then 2 weeks later my tranny fuxored.

It kicked to third and the revs climbed tranny light came on then the engine light. I pulled over and restsrted. tranny went back to normal but engine light stayed on. it ended up being some gear selector thing that was replaced under warranty.

P5 isn't exaclty the quality vehicle it should be.

Alarm module freaked right after I first got it. Got that replaced under warranty.

My rear brakes are wearing faster than the fronts as well.

It has stalled numerous times. egr was cleaned. it stalled the day the tranny freaked. sometimes after I start it up, it drops to about 500rpm and tries to die.

got the moonroof adjusted too. was getting pretty crooked. No leaks though.

 

[BlkZoomZoom]

I completely disagree with you on that. I had 3 out of 5 screws go through the exhaust camshaft (thats why IT WAS ****** UP TOO AND REPLACED) and the other 2, mazda mechanic fished out of cylinder combustion chambers 1 and 3 through the spark plug holes. MY HEAD WAS ****** UP! Thats why head was replaced also! PLATES ARE NOT THE PART THAT MAKES THE RATTLING!!! What makes it rattle is the that small bolt which is IN the combustion chamber! Thats why THAT rattling sound is RPM DEPENDANT. The only reason why your noise stopped is because that small bolt or whatever amount of bolts you lost, actually DID go through the exhaust valve and stuck in the screen at the 1st cat (pre-cat)......take off your 1st cat and you will see that bolt/bolts there.


NO DO NOT ATEMPT to delete VICS! VICS is needed. VTCS on the other hand just kills the air flow which I recommend removing.

Just out of curiosity how the heck does a screw in the intake manifold makes its way out of the intake tract and into the exhaust camshaft?

 

[BlkZoomZoom]

OMG people! A car has a KNOWN PROBLEM!! Holy Crap! Call the press! Better yet, call the President!!!

Since the problem has happened to more than one person regardless of mileage and condition of vehicle it should be fixed at no cost to you, right? Get Real.

Every car manufactuer has different known inherent problems. In doesn't matter if it is a Mercedes or a Mazda. If you are out of warranty then you are out of warranty. Period.

For those that think this is happening in every other Protege, it's not. We have done 3 in 3 years. Wow.

 

[pasadena_commut]

For those that think this is happening in every other Protege, it's not. We have done 3 in 3 years. Wow.

There are two scenarios for these failures:

1. There is a small subset of vehicles which were not assembled
correctly and these will all fail within 50k miles (or whatever)

2. The design is defective and ALL vehicles may fail eventually but the
rate of failure is small, for instance as you say:

(3 failures)/(Number of 2003 P5s serviced by your dealership * 3 years)

For the sake of argument let's assume that there are 50 2003 P5s you might have seen at your dealership. That gives a failure rate of 2% per year in the second scenario. However, that rate has so far been measured on fairly new cars. Cars tend to shake things loose more and more as they get older - it's just the cumulative effect of all of the vibration. So in model 2 the failure rate should probably be increasing with time, whereas in model 1 it might have peaked and now be decreasing.

Mazda undoubtedly knows which of these scenarios holds true since when summed over the whole country the failure rate can be accurately determined over time. However none of us outside of Mazda can perform this analysis. All we have is hearsay and the observation that rather a lot of the people in this forum, which is probably not a very large subset of all Protege owners, have had this problem.

Hmm. I guess we could estimate the cumulative number of failures. Assume that everybody who is a member of this board and has had this problem with a P5 has reported it. So there's one number. Somebody count those up and we've got the number of observed failures = F. We also need to know the number of 2003 P5s belonging to forum members = P. F/P is the fraction of 2003 P5s affected (that forum members own). Perhaps whoever manages this site has some way of scanning the member list for car models to determine P. If we also knew the number of 2003 P5s sold in the USA and Canada (=S) we could estimate the total number of failures (=T) pretty accurately as

T=S*F/P

I'm betting that S is a matter of public record - who can find it? If the number is big enough then the class action guys may have a leg to stand on. Or at least enough of a message to interest the legal vultures.

Ok, it might be an overestimate as people who've thrown a screw and blown their motor are probably motivated to look around on the web for more info, and they might then join this forum.

Now I wonder what the values of F, P, S, and T are.

 

[BlkZoomZoom]

Who has blown a motor from this?

 

[Salmon_Rob]

me

 

[BlkZoomZoom]

How did the motor blow up from this?

 

[Salmon_Rob]

scratched the cyl walls. didnt blow actually, but had to be replaced

 

[BlkZoomZoom]

According to the thread you started about your vics screw mishap they replaced the cylinder head and intake manifold. When did they replace the motor?

 

[Salmon_Rob]

the second time

 

[Mazdamia]

Mazda obviously knows there is something going on because there have been numerous revisions to the Manifold design. The parts manager at my local dealership explained that he saw at least three different part designations in the computer system, and also a large supply of manifolds at the warehouse...larger than would be expected for a non-wear item.

 

[eting_pro5]

I took my car in for an extremely rough idle (stalling occasionally) a few months ago. Service Tech told me it was prolly a loose butterfly from missing screws..."A common problem."

I was pretty freaked out, but fortunately it turned out to be a bad EGR valve.

But yeah, I'd be pretty freaking pissed.

 

[BlkZoomZoom]

Mazda obviously knows there is something going on because there have been numerous revisions to the Manifold design. The parts manager at my local dealership explained that he saw at least three different part designations in the computer system, and also a large supply of manifolds at the warehouse...larger than would be expected for a non-wear item.

No kidding. So what you are saying is since the ect sensors go bad all the time and is a known issue for Vw's that regardless of mileage or condition they should be replaced? Or that since the front calipers on a P5 have been known to seize they should be replaced also regardless of anything? Or that brake light bulbs go bad all the time on Vw's they should be replaced also regardless of anything? Or that B series trucks driveshafts go bad all the time and they have had a million versions of them they should be replaced also regardless of anything? Or the Vw waterpumps impeller have been known to split they should be replaced regardless of anything?

I could really go on for days here. Things break, regardless of a wear item or a bad design or whatever, they break. s*** happens.

silver03p5-I must have missed the thread where you said your motor had to be replaced....

 

[Salmon_Rob]

i didnt even bother with one. im 97% fed up with the car. it is such a dissapointment compared to the 1g

 

[BlkZoomZoom]

i didnt even bother with one. im 97% fed up with the car. it is such a dissapointment compared to the 1g

Sell it then.

 

[Salmon_Rob]

im trying