NA project blew the hell up!!!

Installshield 2

Gothenburg Superiority
This is simply to keep in the tradition of Andrew's recent post...I assure you everything is perfectly fine...

Its early in the morning and in about 10 hours the engine will be brake dyno'd again...

We have spent the weekend building and breaking in the new internals...and once again I am truely unsure of some of the specs, and here is why...

I still suck at this stuff...I am still a No0B0t at making internal pieces at this point...I don't know how to make pistons...I can make exact rod replicas out of the stock rods out of different metal, but so can a dentist...

Anyway though, I made these new rods extra beefy...they looked kind of squared off...but are a full 7mm longer than stock...making my new rod ratio about 1.55...I win...and they are barely heavier than the first set, and still much lighter than stock...

I had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the piston design process that went on friday...about 5 of my friends and fellow students helped with the whole process...Tim roped off the new cams, and the "big" ones are in the engine...I left my spec sheet at school today though and will have everything and I mean everything with me when I get home tomorrow...The pistons were cut friday alongside the rods, and then everything was shot-peened and checked for balance...the crank has been reworked a little and "packed" after being only slightly knife-edged to check for fatigue...it was fine, and I think it is now safe to say that the FS has one hell of a stock forged crank...not light, but strong as s***...We also went through with a order of ARP head bolts, ARP cap bolts, and all new bearings and seals...mostly because this is most likely the final build before it goes in the car...

everything fit together fine...there were some worries at first that the deck height had been miscalculated, and that the pistons were going to come too far up...But we were right...and we are running a measure CR of 12.95:1...I have all the specs for the pistons at school too, in my little corner underneath a slice of pizza, an empty bottle of Mobil 1, and some tools...which is what I refer to as my office...

The pistons are using 19mm titanium wrist pins, that should be up to the task of wrangling the piston up and down...and also these pins are much lighter than the stock pieces, that were used in the first test (new pins of course, but were simply stock pins from the dealership for the first test)...The pistons went through a cryo-treating process that made them an awesome blueish gold color, mostly for the heat changes they will go through...it was free and made them look cool, so I did it...and was pretty easy to do...the wrist pins come in pretty close to the lowest oil ring, but still safely under it with plenty of thick unmarked aluminum between the two...the biggest chunk of room came from moving making the upper ring lands smaller (lots of POWER!!!, but this is not great for strength) and beveling out some room underneath the piston crown on the "inside" of the piston for the small end of the rod to move slightly...this was done during the initial machining, and everything was shot-peened and pressure tested afterwards...overall, that is how we kept the assembly within the parameters of the stock deck height and increased the rod length...overall making the rod ratio a little higher for safer crazy revving...I was told that I could go with up to 9mm "safely", or 10mm if 17mm wrist pins are used (which are the stock size) but I didn't want to risk it...1.55 is right around a B18C5, so I could easily get to over 9 grand now if I had less stroke...thats fine with me...

As far as the head we went with the bigger set of cams made a few weeks ago...just from memory the duration is something like 230@.050", but I am unsure of the seat duration as well as the overall lift and ramp magnitude/angle...I read the numbers a while ago, but they looked just like that...numbers...I have a hard time understanding them when I don't have the stock numbers right in front of me, I will get those today and post them though...in either case they are much bigger...We also went with higher spring rates for the valve springs, 3-angle'd the stock valves and seats...port matched the intake manifold, cut the head ports a bit, and minorly polished them (didn't "mirror" them as some guys want to do, that can cause puddling and other turbulence problems that hurt power)...The TB was left alone...the same custom intake with a cone filter is being used...and we were hoping to get a chance to polish the intake mani, but didn't before this weekend...so it has been left completely alone other...

finishing it up was a fresh set of Deves "gapless" piston rings sourced from a shop out of Miami...I believe paeco has these too...

other than that it was run for a bit at varying speeds to get fully broke in before todays thrashing...I have 75% water coolant in, with the stock radiator...and a bottle of water wetter too...we put three new fans on the floor in front of the radiator for approx. 80mph of air to blow through it...(they are those crazy little snail shaped things you sometimes see at wal-mart if you are in there at 4 a.m.)...they can blow a max of 80mph, but only one of them makes too broad of a stream to cool the rad. affectively...so we stole three from the civil engineering deparment...they don't mind because they are not cool enough to use them for a radiator...

Mr. Motec came and set up his rig...and I watched and pretended to be busy with calculations and formulas on an empty sheet of paper...

The coolest part too is that I get to wear a white lab coat today...and probably big goggles if I am feeling nuts...

One minor thing we are looking into is the fuel system...I completely forgot about this last time...the motec system uses its own injectors and custom rail we made...we kept the specs similar to stock as much as we could..it uses a 6 gallon tank with an adjustable pump and same type of rail setup as stock, but the motec thing will only control its own injectors...which is why it had to be used...All the pressures and specs from the stock car were adjusted into the pit stand so we have an idea of how well the stock system does with this engine...same for the ignition system...it uses a wasted park system from the motec setup...but is very similar to our stock system...

But its more or less meaningless...it may turn out that i need some better coils and bigger injectors once in the car, but these parts will not change the output...it just may be was is necessary to make the ouput if you know what I mean...So in short...if we have to adjust the motec's fuel system farther than what the stock system, we will know that the stock system will need to be upgraded in order to complete this entire setup...may not even happen though...

But honestly this thing is going to be crazy...It idles so freakin' stupid silly ass nuts...just lumpy and bad, and then springs to with just a tap...With the leftover billet we made a balanced 9lb flywheel, including ring gears to keep it accurate...and I will probably keep that in for the install into the car...last evening was the tuning process, in which we tried to get what we felt was a good baseline before the more complex and exact tuning we will do today...but just from hearing it rev yesterday I can already tell it is at least as strong as the last build...we shall see in a couple hours...

This last part is a crappy disclaimer that I should put in here...If you know of the university that this work is being done, keep it quiet...I was told that it could get bad if the wrong people find out that the million dollar equipment is being used over the summer for some chumps engine build...I already know that all the professors and admins that run the equipment will deny any work they have invovled with it, and just that us couple students doing the work will be said to have done the work "without full permission"...its not a big deal, just don't call the university and ask if you can come over and use their s***...a lot more higher up people did not know anything about this whole thing...it started as a design project for a summer class that is now over, but a lot of people took interest and helped me out ten-fold...anyway, thats it...I just know a few guys from psu are on this board sometimes, if you want to see the work in progress...contact me, NOT THE MECHANICAL ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT!!!!
 
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this sounds pretty interesting...i read that part about 8000rpm and i was like what ? the FS-DE redlines around 7k...haha but i can't wait to hear about your results ! and it sounds like a cool build with all these people helping you out and making CUSTOM RODS and PISTONS !! anywhere i can find a spec sheet on what you have on your car so far (thumb)
 
This is the first real post containing the info about it...it is more or less a spec sheet, but an uncomplicated one at that...I don't have a thread with just the numbers...but this gives most of the needed info and the story behind everything...


http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70918&page=1

This is the second update on what is being done in a few hours...it lists some of the changes and why, and makes this thread you are in now make more sense...

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=76699
 
SenorCorwin said:
are you expecting this thing do hit 20hp at 500rpm less then those first numbers?
...?...its late dude...I don't think I understand what you are asking?...I am very much expecting to hit over 200bhp...if that is what you meant...I most likely loss some torque down low compared to the last test, mostly due to the bigass cams...
 
yea it is late, i meant thats all your expecting? Is 20Hp over your first numbers? how long till its in a protege...
 
oh oh oh I see...yeah I don't think I will get huge gains over last time, mostly because I only really changed the cams and rod ratio...So basically this is going to be a less stressfull pull with the proper set of cams...there is some minor headwork that will help, and a small bump in compression...But other than that the gains are realistically only be coming from the cam upgrade...

Could be huge, maybe not...the motec is set as we speak at an 8500rpm cut-off...for the street under load that will probably be more around 8 grand...the bhp rating is a function of revs, 1k more revs will give a big boost over the 188bhp from the first test...as long as it breathes...the new rod ratio will help that by slowing the pistons down a bit, and the cam duration and headwork will help also...

I don't want to get too excited...but on paper I am hoping for nearly 230bhp...that is optimistic I feel, which would put a whp rating of nearly 200whp...that just doesn't sound possible...if that does happen it probably won't be streetable...but I don't know, we may get suprised...as long as I am up around 210bhp my work is done, and its going in the car and i will start on an FP if possible (I have already been toying with the idea of 10,000 rpm)...
 
wow thats some s***, id be interested to seee some testing shots. just to see the EQ.

your majoring in mechanical eng? just curious causes thats what ive declared..
 
yeah, going to be a senior finally this spring...I am doing an internship this fall that will only be like 3 credits, but is needed...its cool though because I will get some real income finally to keep this going, rather than part time grocery and restuarant stuff...
 
alright guys...its almost 6 am here...I have been up all night, and am now going to shower and eat...then go to school at 7...

By noon or so today I will have all the poop...
 
hahahahaa...i like the tradition, i like!

cant wait to see that engine in a car rather than being looked at in sexual ways by engineering nerds in white coats with big goggles ;) LMAO!!!!!
 
yeah really...It needs a comfortable home under my hood...

if I wear the white coat today, no one else gets to...because there is only one in that lab...and we only steal fans remember?...But some chump always steals the big goggles...so I have to rock a set of pilots (big ass aviator sunglasses) for the test...and that sucks because it makes the room dark...no one else is getting there till 8, but those bitches don't know that I have the key...so I will get in there early and take the coat and wear it and be cool and s***...my girlfriend loves the white coat...so again I will win...
 
still shooting for september...its all in the standalone...I am starting an internship next tuesday that will help out with some upcoming expenses...the ECU being one of them...So late september is should be ready to go...
 
good to hear. good to hear!

can you remember if the cam guy decided on the same sized cams for intake and exhaust???
 
so as per the ecu upgrade what are you gonna use? the expensive as smotec it was tested on or you have something else in mind? e6x? aem?
 
This s*** sounds awesome! I wanna drive to wherever you are to check it out when you have it in the car. I love how much you say it revs freely, which is helped by your lightweight internals. Cars with more power, rev more quickly too, which is a good sign for the possible power outcome. I was reving my car today, and I came to the conclusion it doesn't rev quickly enough in neutral.

What about the stock intake manifold? Is it up to the task of 8000RPM operation? Same goes for the TB....?
 

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