MS3 kicks WRX's ass Japanese-style
- Thread starter ZooZoom
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LOL! lets not sound hypocritical here...
So I did some research to see what you're claiming...
First off, you make the claim that an all out wrx will smoke a mazdaspeed3. Obviously it'll smoke a stock one so lets assume you meant an all out mazdaspeed3. Being that the Axela (Japanese version of Mazda3) appears to have an AWD package, I wouldn't be surprised if I could take the rear diff and drive shaft from that car and with a little work, make it fit on a MZSPD3. Also, there seems to be an unusually large amount of space around the rear axle, like maybe space for a rear diff. So if you want to argue an all out wrx vs. an all out MZSP3, I'd say that an all out MZSP3 would be modified to be AWD.
Besides that, if you'll notice, the number for the 2006 WRX (the model you claim that can beat the MZSP3) is only pulling .83g's on the skidpad while the MZSP3 is pulling .88g's on the skidpad. That means, my MZSP3 can take a turn faster than the WRX without needing to do something like power my way through the turn, which in itself isn't even proven to be faster.
So unless your 6 years of driving experience somehow redefines the laws of physics, I think you may want to reconsider your point of view
First off, you make the claim that an all out wrx will smoke a mazdaspeed3. Obviously it'll smoke a stock one so lets assume you meant an all out mazdaspeed3. Being that the Axela (Japanese version of Mazda3) appears to have an AWD package, I wouldn't be surprised if I could take the rear diff and drive shaft from that car and with a little work, make it fit on a MZSPD3. Also, there seems to be an unusually large amount of space around the rear axle, like maybe space for a rear diff. So if you want to argue an all out wrx vs. an all out MZSP3, I'd say that an all out MZSP3 would be modified to be AWD.
Besides that, if you'll notice, the number for the 2006 WRX (the model you claim that can beat the MZSP3) is only pulling .83g's on the skidpad while the MZSP3 is pulling .88g's on the skidpad. That means, my MZSP3 can take a turn faster than the WRX without needing to do something like power my way through the turn, which in itself isn't even proven to be faster.
So unless your 6 years of driving experience somehow redefines the laws of physics, I think you may want to reconsider your point of view
Sigh...do you even realize what kind or work and money it would take to make the ms3 awd? After u make it, which you probably will not, you will be in a class of cars that will still **** the snot out of you. The reason a stock ms3 pulls higher Gs than a stock wrx is because a stock wrx comes with all season tires and a s*** suspension. The ms3 comes with a sport suspensions and get ready.....SUMMER TIRES.
Btw: go back and read some more....cause obviously this was just a half assed attempt at trying to make a point, at which u failed
When i mean all out, i mean all out in the classes that both cars compete in. You do realize that autox has rules on modifications right? lol
(eek2)
UUhh ya.. That wasn't really the argument but anyways. Before any other comments like that, the ms3 is a great car for fwd and I believe everyone will agree. I'm sure the scubbies and evo's will always own autox, ibut for fwd the ms3 is a very capable car. With more r&d in the car it will get even better, but untill then the scubbies are better, if not always better. My point is that they aren't THAT much better, especially for the ms3's not having that much stuff out for it yet. Thats all I was saying, and if you want an awd hatch I'm sure the new sti will be pretty good. And would have warrenty! Instead of doing a frankinstein swap into an ms3...lol
Oh, and where in the hell did you research??
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I never said the ms3 was a bad handler for a fwd, it does the job good. However there is not much you can do to make it handle better....everything that will make it handle better is already out. Coilovers, wider wheels, azenis 615s, bars and braces. Thats where it stops
Incorrect, weight reduction of existing components will compliment handling. Plus, if you really believe that nothing else will come out, you're nuts.
fourthmeal
Banned
I want to touch on a topic about the AWD conversion possibilities. It IS possible, and actually in theory quite simple. I know that I thought about it from the very moment I had a Mazda engineer speak with me about the possibility, and he was straight faced about it.
What it needs:
The transmission has a Power Take Off point already on it, ala the MS6 and CX7. Use that, with a custom driveshaft and viscous coupling. From there, bolt on an MS6 rear pumpkin, OR use a modified RX8 one (seems to be similar design, may fit right in)
Reroute the exhaust to either parallel the shaft, or, run a flattened, wider exhaust underneath.
Details are sketchy, but you might be able to use the viscous coupling entirely, or may rely on a computer to distribute power correctly.
Build custom driveshafts if MS6 shafts are the wrong size AND/OR too weak for the power. Afterall, you'd be doing this as a last thing AFTER swapping in a built motor and a nice turbo, right?
ALL in all, the Mazda engineer said it can be done, and has been considered.
What it needs:
The transmission has a Power Take Off point already on it, ala the MS6 and CX7. Use that, with a custom driveshaft and viscous coupling. From there, bolt on an MS6 rear pumpkin, OR use a modified RX8 one (seems to be similar design, may fit right in)
Reroute the exhaust to either parallel the shaft, or, run a flattened, wider exhaust underneath.
Details are sketchy, but you might be able to use the viscous coupling entirely, or may rely on a computer to distribute power correctly.
Build custom driveshafts if MS6 shafts are the wrong size AND/OR too weak for the power. Afterall, you'd be doing this as a last thing AFTER swapping in a built motor and a nice turbo, right?
ALL in all, the Mazda engineer said it can be done, and has been considered.
Seems amazing that companies are still coming out with stuff for STI's and such years after their debut but for the MS3, 9 months after debut and that's all we're gonna get. Try and be a little realistic.
mazdaspeed 3 is stu not stx (basically the same class but for higher displacement engines). You can do some weight reduction like remove AC and lighter seats but that is about it.
Hopefully if cars like cobalt ss and srt-4 get popular they will make a class for FWD cars to encourage competition. Rallycross gets split by drivetrain.
I doubt the car can't get better! So now that a few companies have sways and springs the car won't get better... I find that hard to believe.
Lets play fair. High performance summer tires on the Speed 3 vs all seasons on the WRX. Lets swap out tires, and see how those numbers go. This makes a HUGE difference. Those tires on the WRX are absolute s***. We have to keep that in mind when comparing these cars. The WRX is more suited for your average daily driver.consumer. The Speed 3 is like the STI, in that it's geared towards pure enthusiasts, and is limited in quantities. It's just a more affordable FWD more performance car.
Not totally fair to compare a regular WRX to a Speed 3, although I understand why people do. What else is there to compare it to. SUbaru is just fine with not matching up to the Speed 3. Their focus is on the STI. They have a higher car which is superior, so they have no reason to compete with a car that's two year production and will disappear, and is being compared to their middle level impreza, The WRX is being made in mass form for every type of consumer.
With that said, the Speed 3 is a super value, and a super fine machine. I love the car. I'd own one, but getting a Speed 6 for cheaper then buying a Speed 3 forced my hand, and I love the luxury. Perhaps next year if they offer the Speed 3 below invoice, I'll be trading in this Speed 6. We'll see.
Just keeping it real here folks. Swapping out tires would alter those numbers a bit and narrow the handling gap, but yes, the WRX suspension is made to be more average consumer friendly, because that's more of the type of car that it is. If you swapped out tires on these cars, you'd be surprised at the difference. Believe me I know. I have similiar tires that are the WRX that are on my Speed 6 now, and lets just say, I lost A LOT of handling. However, I had no choice since it's my winter beater, and I needed all seasons. Slap the tires I have on my Speed 6 onto your Speed 3, you are NOT gonna be happy trust me.
Either way, I do agree, the Speed 3 is a better performance car, as it should be. It's geared for that type of consumer. The WRX is fine right where it is. That's what the STI is for.
I'm still trying to figure out why Subaru didn't raise the power level of their WRX. I understand the softer suspension to appeal to the average person who would complain, but come on. A redesign and not one slight change in power? Makes no sense.
I really hope Mazda builds a regular full time production car so we can see some real competing here. A car like the Mazdaspeed 3 should be available every year. It's too good of a car not to be. Perhaps the current Speed 3 will be a middle entry car like the WRX, then Mazda will make a mac daddy STI type car? Doubt it, but it would be nice to see them reach Subaru's level. Competition is a sweet thing.
Either way, I do agree, the Speed 3 is a better performance car, as it should be. It's geared for that type of consumer. The WRX is fine right where it is. That's what the STI is for.
I'm still trying to figure out why Subaru didn't raise the power level of their WRX. I understand the softer suspension to appeal to the average person who would complain, but come on. A redesign and not one slight change in power? Makes no sense.
I really hope Mazda builds a regular full time production car so we can see some real competing here. A car like the Mazdaspeed 3 should be available every year. It's too good of a car not to be. Perhaps the current Speed 3 will be a middle entry car like the WRX, then Mazda will make a mac daddy STI type car? Doubt it, but it would be nice to see them reach Subaru's level. Competition is a sweet thing.
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now thats a weak argument... all out but only according to scca standards? then its not all out. its whatever is allowed by scca standards. if you want to limit like that, then lets limit it to stock class. or lets go all out and do full modifications. being that a disi is supposed to be much more efficient than a carburetor, looks like you're going to loose there too. if you're going to set stupid rules like that, either you go stock or go all out, you don't choose a set of rules that limit the cars so it favors you in that specific condition. read the forum topic... ms3 kicks wrx's ass, not ms3 kicks wrx's ass in scca. you're just choosing a category which best fits your argument that the mzsp3 can't beat the wrx for a specific condition which doesn't even fit the forum topic.
your argument that the wrx comes with a s*** suspension and a msp3 comes with a sport suspension is totally retarded. the wrx has a sport suspension. its not my fault you think its bad. having this in the front: Uprated inverted independent MacPherson strut-type, coil springs, L-shaped transverse link strut, anti-roll bar, forged aluminium lower arms. and this in the rear: Uprated inverted independent strut-type with trailing arm, dual link, coil springs, anti-roll bar. doesn't sound like some normal stock suspension to me. subaru even markets it as a sport tuned suspension.
and just to further my last point, i've clearly mooted your point that it has anything to do with the wrx not having a sport suspension. so the only thing left is the tires. granted the wrx has some s*** tires, but changing to the same sized summer tires isn't going to make up a .05 lateral g difference. so sorry to break it to you, but you're wrong again.
and read some more? i've read enough of your fallacies and dumb points. you come in here acting like you know everything and you don't even do any research. i do a little bit of googling and i'm finding all these wrong and stupid points you're making. i think you need to go study some more about debate and fallacies. after you've understood the fallacies in your arguments, then come back and lets talk.
and as for everyone saying the wrx shouldn't be compared to the msp3, lets not forget here that the wrx is a tuned impreza. you wouldn't put a wrx in the same class as a mazda3. the msp3 is a tuned mazda3 just as a wrx is a tuned impreza. thats why they're at the same price point.
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