MS3 kicks WRX's ass Japanese-style

[laloosh]

now thats a weak argument... all out but only according to scca standards? then its not all out. its whatever is allowed by scca standards. if you want to limit like that, then lets limit it to stock class. or lets go all out and do full modifications. being that a disi is supposed to be much more efficient than a carburetor, looks like you're going to loose there too. if you're going to set stupid rules like that, either you go stock or go all out, you don't choose a set of rules that limit the cars so it favors you in that specific condition. read the forum topic... ms3 kicks wrx's ass, not ms3 kicks wrx's ass in scca. you're just choosing a category which best fits your argument that the mzsp3 can't beat the wrx for a specific condition which doesn't even fit the forum topic.

your argument that the wrx comes with a s*** suspension and a msp3 comes with a sport suspension is totally retarded. the wrx has a sport suspension. its not my fault you think its bad. having this in the front: Uprated inverted independent MacPherson strut-type, coil springs, L-shaped transverse link strut, anti-roll bar, forged aluminium lower arms. and this in the rear: Uprated inverted independent strut-type with trailing arm, dual link, coil springs, anti-roll bar. doesn't sound like some normal stock suspension to me. subaru even markets it as a sport tuned suspension.

and just to further my last point, i've clearly mooted your point that it has anything to do with the wrx not having a sport suspension. so the only thing left is the tires. granted the wrx has some s*** tires, but changing to the same sized summer tires isn't going to make up a .05 lateral g difference. so sorry to break it to you, but you're wrong again.

and read some more? i've read enough of your fallacies and dumb points. you come in here acting like you know everything and you don't even do any research. i do a little bit of googling and i'm finding all these wrong and stupid points you're making. i think you need to go study some more about debate and fallacies. after you've understood the fallacies in your arguments, then come back and lets talk.

and as for everyone saying the wrx shouldn't be compared to the msp3, lets not forget here that the wrx is a tuned impreza. you wouldn't put a wrx in the same class as a mazda3. the msp3 is a tuned mazda3 just as a wrx is a tuned impreza. thats why they're at the same price point.

omg i dont even know where to start with this newb.
Go ahead and make your ms3 awd lol, once you figure it out, you will still get spanked by the wrx. You think the wrx has a stiff sport suspension? You my friend are flat out wrong. You are also flat out wrong about tires not being able to make up .05gs. TIRES ALONE can put a wrx over the 1g limit. Take both cars, change nothing but tires, put both car on r coumpounds and get ready....the wrx will win. Tires alone are by far the best mod you can do when it comes to handling, suspension just tunes out the little things here and there. The wrx is not a tuned impreza, the STI is a tuned impreza. The wrx really hasnt changed that much sinze 02.
I never said the two dont compare, so i dont know where you got that from. I said the two compare and in stock form the ms3 is better, in the modded form the wrx kicks its ass in both drag racing, road racing and autox. You do realize that all you have to do is buy an air filter and a 90 dollar obd port cable and tune the wrx for FREE right. With those two mods alone you will be runnning low low 13s at 103ish. THe new 06 plus wrx has more potential than the sti, the compression ratio is slightly higher and it can make more power easier. Power aside though, when it comes to handling im sorry but when both cars are "ALL OUT" but go apply for a loan, the ms3 will still not beat a wrx. Go read up on what wrxs are doing in the world, the type of power they are putting down and the type of events are the dominating.

 

[tsunami]

enough or it will be dumped...

 

[fourthmeal]

Both nice cars? (dunno)

I'd love some R compound tires on my car though. I'll give you that much.

 

[pHeeL tHiZ ViBe]

mazda should make an AWD rotary xD is that even possible? lol

anywayz props to mazda. the subaru looks like rolling all over the place while the ms3 is doing ballet xD

mazda used to rally race with an AWD rotary powered car

 

[laloosh]

just as an example. Gtech measures Gs, with my summer tires on my old specv, (falken azenis) i use to hit about .93-.94 with my winter tires i hit .76-.77. Now i understand that wrx tires are not that bad, but they are alot worse than the ms3 tires.

 

[Betelgeuse]

It takes a little more than tires alone on the WRX. The suspension is softer and the car waddles like a duck. I'm sure better tires will make a difference but it's not the be all and end all. Try this: go to tirerack and compare both tires, the summers on the speed3 and the all seasons on the WRX and you'll see the dry traction performance is very close. Both were tested on a BMW 330 and the supposedly crappy all seasons on the WRX even pulled a '92g. Surprising isn't it?

Here I'll make it easy:
Potenza re050a :
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/chartDisplay.jsp?ttid=50


Potenza re92
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/chartDisplay.jsp?ttid=28

Now this is just one source but it's a reputable one. If anyone can show me other numbers, by all means post it. Overall the ms3 tires are slightly better but not anything close to what some people are making it out to be. It's probably a big reason why Subaru continues to use the re92s.

 

[Ryz]

Loosh, your suspension statement makes no sense. He quotes Subies site so you're opinion goes against the mfg of the item.

 

[laloosh]

It takes a little more than tires alone on the WRX. The suspension is softer and the car waddles like a duck. I'm sure better tires will make a difference but it's not the be all and end all. Try this: go to tirerack and compare both tires, the summers on the speed3 and the all seasons on the WRX and you'll see the dry traction performance is very close. Both were tested on a BMW 330 and the supposedly crappy all seasons on the WRX even pulled a '92g. Surprising isn't it?

Here I'll make it easy:
Potenza re050a :
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/chartDisplay.jsp?ttid=50


Potenza re92
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/chartDisplay.jsp?ttid=28

Now this is just one source but it's a reputable one. If anyone can show me other numbers, by all means post it. Overall the ms3 tires are slightly better but not anything close to what some people are making it out to be. It's probably a big reason why Subaru continues to use the re92s.

dude arnt you the same guy who had this argument on a differnt board. Clubrsx or something and got reemed out the ass by 30 memebers for being wrong? The tires on the ms3 are ALOT better then the subie tires. Also tire rack does not have ONE rating. Say a tire hits a 9 in summer performance. And a tire hits a 9 in all season performance, do you think the summer tire and the all season tire are similar? no they're not, they just hit a 9 compared to everythign else its class

 

[laloosh]

Loosh, your suspension statement makes no sense. He quotes Subies site so you're opinion goes against the mfg of the item.

my suspension statement makes no sense? The subi suspension is soft whats so hard to comprehend?

 

[Ryz]

my suspension statement makes no sense? The subi suspension is soft whats so hard to comprehend?

Just because you consider it soft to compliment your arguement, the manufacturer of the item considers it a sport suspension. Your opinion is just that, your opinion.

 

[laloosh]

Just because you consider it soft to compliment your arguement, the manufacturer of the item considers it a sport suspension. Your opinion is just that, your opinion.

ok go look at the direct comparriosn of the wrx vs the ms3. The got vids of it going through cones. You think thats a sport suspension? A camry has less body roll

 

[Ryz]

What does that have to do with anything? All the video shows is that the MS3 kicks its ass for the same price. It would do it with the same tire as well. Since subi consideres it sport they evidently uprgrade it above their standard product. How about a little less opinion in ALL of your arguements.

 

[fourthmeal]

Sport as compared to their stock impreza, I imagine. One man's "sport" is another's "WTF is this crap?"

Both are nice cars. I especially like the race on You Tube that pitted the MS3 against other cars in a time-attack. That was pretty to watch.

 

[laloosh]

What does that have to do with anything? All the video shows is that the MS3 kicks its ass for the same price. It would do it with the same tire as well. Since subi consideres it sport they evidently uprgrade it above their standard product. How about a little less opinion in ALL of your arguements.

ok give me your opinion.
Stock for stock
Stiffer Suspension: MS3 or WRX
Better Tires: MS3 or WRX
Biggest effect on handling: Tire or suspension

 

[laloosh]

btw that little tire rack compare you posted. Look at the lap times btwn the two differnt cars.
Subbie tire on the 330 went 30.82
MS3 tire on the 330 went 30.17
Thats over half a second just by switching tires. That over a second on a minute long course. Do you know how hard it is to pick up a second when your driving at the limit? Im not saying both runs were perfect, but in autox if you win by a second, you pretty much dominated your class. yes, once again im relating to autox cause its somewhere that i have experience in

look at the wonderful reviews the subbi tires got
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Bridgestone&tireModel=Potenza+RE92

And the ms3 tires
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Bridgestone&tireModel=Potenza+RE050A

another kewl review i remeber reading in the past
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests...wagon_and_sedan_comparison/track_testing.html

 

[_red rocket_]

haha, shouldn't bother anymore...guys with one sided experience will only consider one side of the argument. seems as though you're wasting your breath.

Some interesting information you have provided though, thanks.

 

[Betelgeuse]

dude arnt you the same guy who had this argument on a differnt board. Clubrsx or something and got reemed out the ass by 30 memebers for being wrong? The tires on the ms3 are ALOT better then the subie tires. Also tire rack does not have ONE rating. Say a tire hits a 9 in summer performance. And a tire hits a 9 in all season performance, do you think the summer tire and the all season tire are similar? no they're not, they just hit a 9 compared to everythign else its class

ClubRSX are full of retards so hopefully you weren't one of those 'experts' over there. The ms3 tires aren't a 'lot' better, they're slightly better. I have no idea what you're talking about above. Look at the cornering performance and slaloms, they're very close. Those numbers are not within their own class, those are across the board. The 330i was able to pull a .92g, the WRX couldn't come anywhere close with the SAME tires.

 

[Betelgeuse]

btw that little tire rack compare you posted. Look at the lap times btwn the two differnt cars.
Subbie tire on the 330 went 30.82
MS3 tire on the 330 went 30.17
Thats over half a second just by switching tires. That over a second on a minute long course. Do you know how hard it is to pick up a second when your driving at the limit? Im not saying both runs were perfect, but in autox if you win by a second, you pretty much dominated your class. yes, once again im relating to autox cause its somewhere that i have experience in

look at the wonderful reviews the subbi tires got
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Bridgestone&tireModel=Potenza+RE92

And the ms3 tires
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Bridgestone&tireModel=Potenza+RE050A

another kewl review i remeber reading in the past
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests...wagon_and_sedan_comparison/track_testing.html

Exactly both runs aren't perfect and probably never will be so you can't use that as a basis for the argument you're trying to make. My point is the difference is close enough that external factors could make it go either way. The same point the douches over on clubRSX couldn't grasp. The difference between these tires aren't night and day. I think we both agree the suspension on the WRX leaves a lot to be desired. They were putting all the blame on the tires and none on the suspension setup itself.

 

[MS6S2K]

Exactly both runs aren't perfect and probably never will be so you can't use that as a basis for the argument you're trying to make. My point is the difference is close enough that external factors could make it go either way. The same point the douches over on clubRSX couldn't grasp. The difference between these tires aren't night and day. I think we both agree the suspension on the WRX leaves a lot to be desired. They were putting all the blame on the tires and none on the suspension setup itself.

The never ending argument. The WRX suspension is better for daily driving. The car is smoother, the tires are quieter, and the car is friendlier. The WRX with the Speed 3 tires will help, but will still fall short, but IT WILL HELP. The suspension is super for all around driving, but lacks obviously for an enthusiast who wants pure performance. It NEEDS to be that way though. It's the middle entry Impreza. Man, if they threw even slightly below STI suspension and summer tires on that thing with it's majorly detuned 224hp, they'd lose a TON of sales. People would pony up the dough for the STI, and people would look elsewhere for a sporty all weather daily driver performance vehicle.

Once the STI came out, the WRX became basically a daily driver almost anyone would buy. I see middle aged women driving the regular WRX, and I bet that will happen with the new one. I don't imagine I'm gonna be seeing that anytime soon on a Speed 3, do you?

Who remembers 2002? The WRX was DA BOMB. The car is what it is now, and is getting compared and criticized for being a friendlier car that still performs very well, that more people will buy. Subaru is laughing while they sell these babies, while we are all enthusiasts on a car forum ripping the poor old WRX. Subaru has it right. SOmetimes when I read these posts, it's like people need to gloat like Subaru tried to outdo the Speed 3 and failed. WRONG!!!! They got the STI. Tone that babie down so you can sell it to both enthusiasts and general consumers alike. Make the money!!!

Now if the STI falls short against a Mazda in the future, then we got something REAL to talk about.

 

[Kosh]

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