Bail Brother
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Stock integra gsr's are just a lil slower than stock MSPs. Did somone state that already?
which is faster...
- Thread starter xtoofast4youx
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Speed Vision
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- 03 Silver MSP
Hopefully you fellas will end this debate here after this response or a few after, it is kinda pointless. Well, me being a very loyal Honda/Acura fanatic, I do know a great deal about the performance of the B-Series engine and it's capabilities. As for the K-series, I know a some about that engine too. I also spend lots of time looking at the other side of Sport Compacts, and love some of the stuff on the other side of the Honda fence.
To shed a little light, AND NO I'M NOT BIAS TOWARDS HONDA'S/ACURA'S. The Speed will do very well against an all Motor B Series engine, and probably beat it most times unless it's had serious internal work done. A turbo B series is a different situation. Most turbo kits for the B series will net you atleast a 14.0 or better untuned. The Greddy kit is the lowest power rated kit available and at just 6 psi most tegs or Si's are running about 13.7 on average.
For the Speed to beat a boosted B series will be kind of hard. Take this for starters, compare 7 psi in a B series to stock psi, ( which is about 6 or 7 if im correct ) in a Speed and your already behind the power curve. Up the boost on the Honda and on the Speed and you are still behind. What i'm saying is... The speed will definitely have it's work cut out, when trying to handle a boosted B series engine. Not to say it can't be done, just saying it's gonna require more than 10psi and a front mount.
Personnally, I don't own a speed yet, I have a 96 GSR and i'm trying to make a decision on the MSP or an SVT Focus, or keeping the GSR. I know you are probably saying, a SVT Focus :wtf: well see I told you I wasn't bias towards Honda's. I think it's a great car ( SVT ) and nicely equipped for the price. Not the strongest , but definitely a car worth checking out.
Just my $ .02
To shed a little light, AND NO I'M NOT BIAS TOWARDS HONDA'S/ACURA'S. The Speed will do very well against an all Motor B Series engine, and probably beat it most times unless it's had serious internal work done. A turbo B series is a different situation. Most turbo kits for the B series will net you atleast a 14.0 or better untuned. The Greddy kit is the lowest power rated kit available and at just 6 psi most tegs or Si's are running about 13.7 on average.
For the Speed to beat a boosted B series will be kind of hard. Take this for starters, compare 7 psi in a B series to stock psi, ( which is about 6 or 7 if im correct ) in a Speed and your already behind the power curve. Up the boost on the Honda and on the Speed and you are still behind. What i'm saying is... The speed will definitely have it's work cut out, when trying to handle a boosted B series engine. Not to say it can't be done, just saying it's gonna require more than 10psi and a front mount.
Personnally, I don't own a speed yet, I have a 96 GSR and i'm trying to make a decision on the MSP or an SVT Focus, or keeping the GSR. I know you are probably saying, a SVT Focus :wtf: well see I told you I wasn't bias towards Honda's. I think it's a great car ( SVT ) and nicely equipped for the price. Not the strongest , but definitely a car worth checking out.
Just my $ .02
Speed Vision
Member
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- 03 Silver MSP
Why not compare psi to psi, well actually it wouldn't make a difference. I'm just saying that a boosted B-series engine at 6psi , which is the lowest I have ever heard of, should take the MSP with very little trouble, but nothing is guranteed in life, except death.
And yeah, I know the MSP will beat the SVT Focus and probably 8 of 10 GSR's. I never said that I was buying it to race anyone, i'm just in the market for a new or newer car and those two happen to be my choices. I test drove the Spec V for almost 2 weeks and decided not to buy it. It didn't have enough room in the back seat, but all that torque almost made up for that. Nice car though, just not enough balls on the top end.
And yeah, I know the MSP will beat the SVT Focus and probably 8 of 10 GSR's. I never said that I was buying it to race anyone, i'm just in the market for a new or newer car and those two happen to be my choices. I test drove the Spec V for almost 2 weeks and decided not to buy it. It didn't have enough room in the back seat, but all that torque almost made up for that. Nice car though, just not enough balls on the top end.
hey blue u need to read the posts i made to kpa when he stated the same bs info you stated...all the turbo kits on the honda side of thing offer turbos much larger then the stock t25 on the stock msp....if u wanna compare psi....take the 16g turbo from the gsr bolt on kit and slap that on a msp and lets see numbers then ok 
i stopped postin on this thread cus it is pointless, the orig stater hasnt even posted on here again and we went over the whole psi thing already, basically you cant judge s*** on paper or over th net until you get ur s*** out there and race.......for god sakes ppl kill this stupid thread......
i stopped postin on this thread cus it is pointless, the orig stater hasnt even posted on here again and we went over the whole psi thing already, basically you cant judge s*** on paper or over th net until you get ur s*** out there and race.......for god sakes ppl kill this stupid thread......PSI to PSI is not comparable unless form the same turbo on the same car.
A GSR has a much different engine which obviously has higher compression not to mentiion radicly different timing.
Also, you will not find a single person running a T25 turbo on an aftermarket turbo setup unless they are in the habbit of wasting time and effort.
A GSR has a much different engine which obviously has higher compression not to mentiion radicly different timing.
Also, you will not find a single person running a T25 turbo on an aftermarket turbo setup unless they are in the habbit of wasting time and effort.
Installshield 2
Gothenburg Superiority
Re: Re: Damnit
You make it sound like Honda is in the practive of running oversquare 4yclinder engines...Just to clear it up a little...
Honda somewhat was responsible for destroying the oversquare/undersquare generalizations...1800cc B18 series engines are undersquare, all of them...Even the 9000 rpm F20's are barely square (pre 2004)...Now the S2000 has a 2.2L engine which I believe is undersquare, but can't remember...
So if your nephew's civic is indeed powered by a handbuilt genuine B18C5...It isn't "oversquare ass" at all...
AutoBox said:
You make it sound like Honda is in the practive of running oversquare 4yclinder engines...Just to clear it up a little...
Honda somewhat was responsible for destroying the oversquare/undersquare generalizations...1800cc B18 series engines are undersquare, all of them...Even the 9000 rpm F20's are barely square (pre 2004)...Now the S2000 has a 2.2L engine which I believe is undersquare, but can't remember...
So if your nephew's civic is indeed powered by a handbuilt genuine B18C5...It isn't "oversquare ass" at all...
Installshield 2
Gothenburg Superiority
1st MP3 in NH said:
I agree with everything you said...except this part...
The T-25 should never have been used with such low compression...in this case it is a disgrace to compressed vehicles everywhere...
but a T-25 on a high compression engine (like 11.1:1 or higher) will simply be nuts...In this case a turbo that pushes much more air will be overkill, and also this an application that will utilize the only benefits of such a turbocharger design...its light weight...
with that kind of compression ratios you could be pushing somewhere in the 6-8psi range (which is were the T25 is happiest for the most part)...An FS with such a setup would probably be peaking at well over 250whp (if it is 11.1:1) when well tuned...If the engine was tuned more or less for simply an NA setup, with bigger duration cams/overlap specs and timing...you could make a powerband that would be amazing...tons of high end power, more than enough torque to get things burning but not too much to roast the tires, and a linear power band that is perfect for a great handling road car...
IMO this is hands down the absolute best setup for a FWD car...A small T-25 with a high compression ratio will blend the best aspects of FI with NA...the engine would respond like it was NA (it would still be making great power out of boost) and have the overall ouput of a higher boosted turbo application...On a drivetrain that "pulls" the car around, accompanied with a less than adequate gearbox for high torque surges; this is the best way to do it...
so in the end all I am pointing out is that in the setup of the MSP the T-25 is a joke...I agree with you...but someone who did the setup above would not be practicing wasting time or effort..thats all...
Sorry, I was more to refering to a Protege but even with something like an S2000 or integra, I find the T25 is a very rare beast in an aftermarket kit. COnsidering its increased flow ability and only slightly less spool up time, the T3 among others seem the more popular of paths.
Installshield 2
Gothenburg Superiority
KpaBap said:
The F20 is oversquare, but barely right?...I thought it was very close to being dead sqaure...so I then figured the "stroked" F20 2.2 (whatever the new name badge is, i have never seen it) would then be undersquare...
But yeah for practicality issues no small displacement automotive engine (not pertaining to motorcycles) almost has to be undersquare...Honda used oversquare designs on the old B16s, and look how many criticized the lowend torque of those cars...even though most of those said cars were extremely lightweight...
With the weight increases with newer vehicles, even compacts, engines have to have enough stroke to tug it around...If you have the stroke, but then increase the bore to make it oversquare again...you no longer have a small displacement engine...
Also this was one of the main concerns and reasons behind Honda's utilization of the V-TEC system for the street (it had been used in F1 setups for years)...It allows a small displacement undersquare engine to actually breathe at high rpm...
Installshield 2
Gothenburg Superiority
1st MP3 in NH said:
No need to apoligize dude, I see what you mean...It is a very bad charger for most bolt-on setups...a custom well planned setup for an FS though, it may not be the worse alternative anymore...
and yeah, even on stock high compression engines such as the F20's and DOHC B18C1's or 5's it is still probably not the best turbo...The redlines of these engines is really high, in which case the designs of the turbine and compressor of the T-25 would start to b**** back at you...So even though the F20 has 11.1:1 static CR, it would be begging for you to knock it off at 8000 rpm or higher most likely...
But an FS with a new redline of something like 7300rpm and 11.5:1 compression...The T-25 would turn it into an incredible turbo'd engine...or grenade...just depends on the tuning...
jesus on rollerskates with roman candles
Installshield 2
Gothenburg Superiority
Yeah pretty close...thanks dude...
that definately isn't oversquare like a 2.8L F1 V-10....
that definately isn't oversquare like a 2.8L F1 V-10....
Installshield 2
Gothenburg Superiority
SpicyMchaggis said:
definately dude...I know exactly what you mean
