Time for War !!!

[big_ben]

they also want to be involved in deciding what to do with Iraq after they are defeated!!

Typical France. What they meant to say is they want to help by plundering Iraq's oil sulpply.

Actually, the U.S. should show that we are the better man by saying "ok, you can be involved in post Saddam Iraq", BUT, we should constantly remind them of who they stood behind when it was time to put up or shut up.

 

[MP3-E]

Damn, I wish I would have seen this earlier, I miss out on a lot.
Ben, you have said damn near word for word what I say to any one who thinks this war is wrong. Preach on brother! It's funny too, when you ask them if they forgot about 9/11, because as soon as you say it they start to question themselves.

 

[saided18]

Man, you know your stuff. Not many people know that the resistance force went by the name KLA. (Kosovo Liberation Army)

When really the name iof the Freedom fighters is UCK. That is albanian acronim (sp?). When translated it becomes KLA. and also it is spelled Kosova not Kosovo. well reall that how the serbian (Kosovo). Albanians spell it Kosova. and that answers you question how i knew what the KLA was. I am Albanian. =0)

And really if you want to go back Carter was the one that made all the Arabs hate the US by supporting the Shah of Iran. And Carter could not get the hostages back b/c they new Carter was too scaed to do anything!

But things changed when Regan stepped in. Thewere scared shitless of him. He made it is campian pledge to do ANY thing and EVERY thing to get those people back. and Plus thoe Iranians probally saw those old western movies he did and got scared!!!!

 

[big_ben]

I forgot that you were the one that was Albanian. I think I talked to you about all this once already a while back. You make me realize how much I have forgotten. When you said UCK, I remembered that also. There were also another group of rebels, I can't remember their name. I'll see if I can look it up. I think it has a "P" in it. I think it was called the UCP or the UDP? They were a force that was on the eastern edge of Kosovo. We used to watch them every night. They were always trading mortar rounds with the UCK.

Since you are VERY familiar with the area and it's politics, what is your opinion on what happened to Zeljko Raznatovic? (aka: Arkan) I think it is a possibility that he was assasinated by the CIA. He had HUGE support among the Serbians. He was pretty much their hero. I think that the US feared that he could rise to power within a decade because he was still young. I think he was only in his early to mid thirties when he was assasinated. They say he was killed by organized crime because they feared he would testify against Milosevic. That is entirely possible, but so is asassination by the US. Arkan was probably more evil than Saddam by far. He was one sick son of a b****.

 

[savaho]

hey how come there's no input from the canuks? and people wonder why there's a lot of french people in canada. America has finally changed its policy on national security for the better. if only bush would speak with more passion and fist-pounding affirmation as roosevelt i think he'd have a majority backing. all speeches nowadays are so scripted and unemotional.


favorite channel to watch: pbs channel 6

 

[big_ben]

if only bush would speak with more passion and fist-pounding affirmation as roosevelt

I totally agree. I wish he would show some emotion and get all pissed off. Show the world who the damn boss is. I think Bush is a horrible public speaker, he is always too nervous when he comes to the podium. He's always shaking ans studdering and tripping over his words. He needs to grab his ball sack, flop it out on the table, and show the world he has some nuts!

 

[savaho]

everytime i see a wwII roosevelt speech i get very patriotic and end up wanting to kick some ass! his speeches were by far the most eloquent in this century. watching bush's speeches, im like...well that wasn't too convincing but he's the man and knows a lot more than i or any of these pacifist protesters ever will so i'll back him up. im sure if he were to put a little more drama into his speeches it wouldn't matter what was in 'em, people would believe him. a professional salesman would make a good prez IMO.


HOT OFF THE PRESS. BRAVO UK! Blair is true leader!

 

[saided18]

yes that is one of Bush's worst qualities. BAD public speaker. That has been know for a long time. And i think that is why people don't liek him. he can't win you over with his speach. Now President Clinton could look youin the eye, lie to your face, and you would still love him.



Ben about Arkan. i think he was killed by his own people. he was in talks with NATO on terms of his surender. One of those terms would be spilling the bean on Molesivic. (i can't spell so leave me alone ) If he talked A LOT of people were going down! so they killed him. But Arkan was evil he mad Saddam look like Saint. They guy is on the same level as Hitler was.

Oh yeah buy the way. if any one wants to see how ****** up the French are. Go watch the Movie "Behind enemy lines". goo movie. it's about how a American pilot photographed mass graves that the serbians made. In turn the Serbians shot him done. The commander of the NATO forces was going to let the pilot die b/c he didn't want to "start a war up agian". he was willing to over look it so that they didn't have to fight any more. Bastards.


Also every one should go see "Black Hawak Down". ******* awsome movie and shows how Clinton was a little b****!! The military wanted A130 gun ships. think that is what they were called. All i know is that these planes are crazy the soilders call it "Puff the Magic dragon" b/c when that thing is coming all you see is smoke and fire. But watching this movies show how commited the USA armed forces are in their job and will stop at nothing to complete it. An it makes me proud of our armed forces and makes me sleep better at night.

but these movies are very ture to what really happened. They are must see.

 

[saided18]

Also Ben i don't know of the other group. i think i heard about them but not sue.

savaho you are right. He is a bad Public Speaker. But i see a quality that is far better then public speaking. He knows what is right and will stick by his guns and will not let ANY ONE tell him other wise. He doesn't care about what the Polls say or what public opinion is. He does what he feels is right and hopes that history will reflect this.


I think this qoute of Bush sums him up and will go down in the history (you know as the "we have nothingto fear but..." or "Do not as what your country can do for you..." or "Gorbicof tear down this wall")

"We will not waiver, We will not faulter. WE WILL NOT FAIL"
Bush, Sept 2001

 

[saided18]

Ben the only thing that scares me is what is happening in England. 3 memebers of his Cabinet resgined. Thts not good. England has a diffrent system of election then us. At any time parliment can has a "vote of no confidence". What this does is force an election. and I feel that Tony Blair would not win another election. He has to much public Spport against him. With out Englands backig this is a tough task ahead of us.

 

[savaho]

the 3 MPs that quit are really french in disquise. as you can see on bbc, parliament has put aside their differences and voted to back the war. if only the UN could come together and actually enforce their resolutions. in my eyes the UN is nothing but all show and no go. most of its members aren't willing to pay for freedom or what is right in this world. they'll come wimpering back to us for help in the future you'll see.

 

[unwrittenLaw]

Its about time we got this war started, and hopefully it will end soon. For those who disagree with it, you have to realize that this war is part of defending our country...national security ties into these confilicts, not just oil or money. Anyway, I'm on 48 hours notice right now, so I could be heading over to Camel Land real quick...(usa)

 

[savaho]

godspeed bro! and thanks for helping ensure our liberty and freedom.

 

[dialup]

ULaw, The UK

hey UnwrittenLaw, I havent' seen your MSP around (in fact I haven't seen any black ones at all). You'll have to come to the next socal meet and show all of us NA Pros up. Give 'em hell, man!

On Britain:
I know it's easy to pick on the British and make fun of them (Austin Powers for ex. ) but they are a true friend to America and they have shown that clearly over the years especially since the horrible day in 2001.

I will never forget their memorial service in St. Andrews cathedral and watching and listening on TV as the royal family sang OUR national anthem. That was powerful stuff. Brits are cool as s*** by me!

 

[sttl013]

Does anybody remember when we bombed Quadafi (spelling sux) the French wouldn't allow us in their airspace. Wasn't that when one of our missles went off-target and nailed the French embassy? Coincidence?

No wonder they won't support us.

 

[saided18]

Look there is a reason why the French got their ass kicked in two world wars. they don't like ot fight. thats it. they are all a buch of tree hugging hippies. people think that Aremicans are arogant, but the Frend are even worst them us!!!

 

[Newf]

MY heart goes out to any that gets sent over seas. I have friends in the military as well, and it saddens me to see them go.


When I hear about the war, read about it and things, I can't help but feel like s*** that my biggest worry right now is what color speed to get.....all jokes aside, this is serious, and long overdue for whatever reason. To any on this forum that may get called, I wish you the best, and hope you return to drive those Mazda's once again.

Take care

 

[jas9297]

My judgement is that the reason we are in this situation is directly because of Bill Clinton. He was a great president for the US economy, but he was a horrible president for the US foreign policy and the US military.

Big Ben, I respect a lot of what you have to say, but you are so blinded by apparent hatred of Bill Clinton that I think you are being short-sighted.

First, Clinton continued many of the same policies that Bush Senior did, and that Reagan did before him. On Iraq, Bush Sr. too had a chance to get rid of Saddam but the issue was more complicated -- a feared power vacuum and Sunni/Shiite strife, among other reasons.

On Osama, Reagan and Bush armed the guy to the hilt during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. Clinton's great chance to kill him is largely exaggerated. We had a shot, but even if an immediate order was given, he already "disappeared" like he did after 9/11. We still can't get the guy.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/155236.stm
http://www.infoplease.com/spot/osamabinladen.html
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=95696
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/JohnJudge/linkscopy/RSblowback.html
http://www.lewrockwell.com/ostrowski/ostrowski26.html

See:http://www.lvrj.com/lvrj_home/2001/Sep-14-Fri-2001/news/16996075.html
"But Berger said military, intelligence and White House officials agreed that they should not proceed based on the December intelligence. 'Everyone agreed this was not actionable,' he said."


On Iraq, Reagan and especially Bush sr. had a policy to befriend and sell chemical agents and arm Saddam Hussein in opposition to Iran. Rumsfeld was a key cog in the building of relations with Hussein. Clinton continued policies as usual, inherited from Sr. There was not impetus to invade another country during the 1990s.

On North Korea, Clinton's treaty did not cause N. Korea to start a nuke program. Their leader is a nut head. We had a diplomatic relationship, albeit stitled. But when Bush put N. Korea in the "axis-of-evil," it pretty much pushed Ill off the deep end. Many Asian countries are all about respect. I think Bush made a mistake by challenging that respect. After threatening war with Iraq, the other "axis of evil" countries could only think they were next. I believe Bush bungled the diplomacy by doing several complete reversals in policy -- no relations and no oil, then he said we will talk and send the oil. And this war may push them to do something really horrible.

Finally, I do think Bush made mistakes too. First thing he did when he took office is disrespect world opinion by dissing Kyoto and the ABM treaty. Perhaps they needed to be revised, but the way Bush went about it pissed the world off. It is hard to gain world support after that. And what has happened to the pro-Americanism following 9/11 -- gone to fuel American hatred. ON that issue, I am very ashamed by Bush's leadership. I think this whole thing could have been handled better.

Like I said, I agree with some of what you say. But international policy is much more complicated than "it's all Clinton's fault."

 

[saided18]

OK. this how i'll informed you are. N.K. didn't JUST start making the NUKES yesterday. they have been doing it for years and EVEN CONTINUED after they signed that treaty with Clinton. They have had a secret nuclear arms program all long. Theyjust desided to reveal now to try to have bargin tool. Just as they did with Clinton. They said we won't makes nukes if you give us money and food.

But Bush doesn't play those games. B/c as we saw NK did not follow threw and STILL were working on a nuclear bomb.

and yes Suddan did ask the USA to take Osama and Clinton refused as i stated before. Clinton forigen policy was just to drop some bombs and launch missiles and that would solve problem. He did this to Iraq, Serbia, and those missiles fired in Suddan and Afganhstand right after the bombing of the African Embassys.

his forgien policy sucked really bad. Clinton ALWAYS gave in to the demands of other countries. Thats not good.

I agree you should always compramise. That is the best way to do things. BUT when you have people that says it my way or the high way then you have do what you gotta do. France from the Begining said they will veto ANY UN MILITARY ACTION against Saddam. those are their words. they were the ones that were thick headed and wanted it their way. the US was winning to compramise but France didn't. and for obvious reason!!!

 

[big_ben]

On North Korea, Clinton's treaty did not cause N. Korea to start a nuke program.

I never said that Clintons treaty caused N.K. to start making nukes. I said that Clinton ignored it while he had intelligence that N.K. was doing it.

I don't not "hate" Clinton. I hated the way he and his administration treated the military, but I loved the way he spured growth in the economy. He did one thing really great, and he did one other thing really horrible. I don't hate him, he's a very smart man, and I admire intelligence. But he also self serving and very sneaky. Look at his finances. He was wealthy before the presidency, but look at him now. He was shown to have direct connections with Enron's CEO. He is a very dirty businessman, and he is VERY wealthy for it now. He is VERY wealthy at many people's expense.