Safeguard

[DooMer_MP3]

Well they had said the piggyback doesn't use TPS to determine when to kick it into open loop mode, but use boost to tell it when to. What they didn't explain was how they kick it into open loop.

My assumption is that when they see X lbs of boost, the up the TPS sensor to Y volts and the ECU goes into open loop. But apparently I'm wrong? I wish they'd just come out and say it. Like I said, what the hell am I going to do with the info!? I know nothing about electronics... I just want to know just to know!

Chris

 

[KzA]

its actually pretty clever the way we do it witht he MPI piggy...I can't jump out and say it tho cuz its not really my place, so I'll wait and see if Nick wants to tell yas..I'm sure he wont mind

 

[perfworks]

Well maybe they can say it in their own thread. Since this is the Safeguard thread

 

[YP5 Toronto]

man.....no thread is ever safe..... thread jacking is NOT cool

 

[perfworks]

BTW here is the exact quote as for how it is done from MPI

Second he has our new MPI/Modual Tuner. It will kick the PCM into open loop type mode when you hit boost. Any small fuel change in closed loop will not be picked up by the PCM and changed back. The newer set up does have an O2 clamp anyway. You would not need to use any other clamp.

Open loop TYPE mode. AKA O2 modifier similar to FM O2 modifier.
O2 sensors DONT kick anything into open loop.

 

[perfworks]

Sorry no more TJ

 

[DooMer_MP3]

Argh sorry. I was just curious... Anyhow, the new J&S sounds fantastic. Yet another option for me when I go turbo.

Chris

 

[Kooldino]

BTW here is the exact quote as for how it is done from MPI



Open loop TYPE mode. AKA O2 modifier similar to FM O2 modifier.
O2 sensors DONT kick anything into open loop.

Nick: That's not how it's done, but yeah, we shouldn't be talking about that here.

 

[perfworks]

Nick: That's not how it's done, but yeah, we shouldn't be talking about that here.

Dana: It was not my quote. That was Mpnick.
I am merely refering to how "others" do it. Why dont you be so kind as to enlighten us all since you know how it works

 

[AutoBox]

well if the safegaurd actually has the option to turn on open loop why not get the safegaurd and a piggyback and go to work? wasnt the open/closed loop transition the only trouble braden was havin with his e-manage??? its pissin me off cus i really wanna get some sort of piggy back system soon...

 

[Little Beavis]

Hey, you fockers, get off my Safeguard thread or I'll kick all your east coast asses!

 

[perfworks]

Hey, you fockers, get off my Safeguard thread or I'll kick all your east coast asses!

HEY its just a game Focker!

 

[Kooldino]

well if the safegaurd actually has the option to turn on open loop why not get the safegaurd and a piggyback and go to work? wasnt the open/closed loop transition the only trouble braden was havin with his e-manage??? its pissin me off cus i really wanna get some sort of piggy back system soon...

Well, I think safeguard does it by setting the TPS to WOT...so by doing that, I think you'd lose one of your tuning variables, since you're tuning by TPS and RPM mainly.

 

[John at J&S]

J&S doesn't tune fuel. The purpose of its TPS modifier is to help eliminate "tip in" detonation, caused by lean mixtures at low throttle settings.

At low throttle settings, factory ECU's attempt to stay in closed loop, even though boost may be present.

The J&S pulls the TPS to 4.3v at a preset boost level, forcing the ECU to go open loop. Once it goes open loop, an FMU or a fuel piggy back can be used to richen the mixture.

 

[DooMer_MP3]

So I think I might take advantage of the group buy on this thing before February. Might as well force myself to have the safety measure first before buying the turbo .

Little Beavis, you had mentioned if you were to do it over again, you'd get the mid-range retard set differently. What was that again (it was in some other thread) and why?

Chris

 

[Little Beavis]

Mid range on my unit is set at 0,1,2,3. I recommend 0,2,4,6. I found 3 degrees was needed on the MP3 ecu to get up to 7 psi of boost. To go to 8 you'll need more! You might say 7 will be enough, but that is before the dark side starts to influence your ways!

Now with regard to the J&S and TPS and piggyback. . .keep in mind that you could simply put a diode inbetween the piggyback and the J&S. That way your piggyback would still get a true TPS voltage when the J&S kicks it up. . .I think it is a very good idea. I might just get mine reprogrammed to find out.

So, there is another thing I would change. The TPS is set to go to 4.3V at 3.5 psi. I guess I would move it up farther so that I could put the car into closed loop as soon as I boost (yes we could debate the best "time" to pull the TPS voltage up. . .but we'll need a whole different thread for that)!

 

[DooMer_MP3]

Mid range on my unit is set at 0,1,2,3. I recommend 0,2,4,6. I found 3 degrees was needed on the MP3 ecu to get up to 7 psi of boost. To go to 8 you'll need more! You might say 7 will be enough, but that is before the dark side starts to influence your ways!

Now with regard to the J&S and TPS and piggyback. . .keep in mind that you could simply put a diode inbetween the piggyback and the J&S. That way your piggyback would still get a true TPS voltage when the J&S kicks it up. . .I think it is a very good idea. I might just get mine reprogrammed to find out.

So, there is another thing I would change. The TPS is set to go to 4.3V at 3.5 psi. I guess I would move it up farther so that I could put the car into closed loop as soon as I boost (yes we could debate the best "time" to pull the TPS voltage up. . .but we'll need a whole different thread for that)!

You had mentioned specific RPM ranges though, that you would've changed. So the midrange is not only RPM programmable, but degrees-programmable... ? heh.

Thanks,
Chris

 

[John at J&S]

The RPM breakpoints are factory programmable. Let us know where you want the midrange retard, and how quickly you want it to ramp up/down.

The retard amounts are switch selectable. Two switches let you select four amounts.

For example, refer to the bottom of our Focus install page:

http://www.jandssafeguard.com/FocusInstall.html

 

[LinuxRacr]

J&S doesn't tune fuel. The purpose of its TPS modifier is to help eliminate "tip in" detonation, caused by lean mixtures at low throttle settings.

At low throttle settings, factory ECU's attempt to stay in closed loop, even though boost may be present.

The J&S pulls the TPS to 4.3v at a preset boost level, forcing the ECU to go open loop. Once it goes open loop, an FMU or a fuel piggy back can be used to richen the mixture.

This is yet something that has been under my nose that I didn't really consider.

 

[Little Beavis]

^^^^^^^
I'm not sure how to play with the TPS voltage yet either. .

And Chris you are right. . .I think the lack of sleep with the new baby is really starting to take its toll. . .yes, the rpm needs to be programmed as well.

I have mine currently set to ramp up from 3k to 4k, hold max retard from 4k to 4.5k, then ramp down from 4.5k to 5k.

I noticed detonation more in the area of 4.5 to 5k, so the curve should be shifted upward.

The "ramps" mean that if you have a 4 degree max retard set, you would have 0 degrees at 3000, 1 degree at 3250, 2 degrees at 3500, 3 at 3750, and the full 4 at 4 to 4.5k as currently setup. Hope that makes sense. You could probably make the ramp a little steeper if you want, but I think it works (but it may not be for max power, but the steeper you go the more you'll notice it I guess). Food for thought!