Safeguard
- Thread starter Little Beavis
- Start date
John at J&S
Member
All those settings are separate from the knock detector. The unit has the capability of 20 of knock retard, plus 20 of boost retard, plus 6 of RPM retard, plus...
I just found a thread on the Subaru form. Someone is trying to bring out a blower kit, with no timing control. The thread went downhill fast. I chimed in on page six, then a user backed me up on page seven. Here's his nice attaboy:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=5481866#post5481866
I just found a thread on the Subaru form. Someone is trying to bring out a blower kit, with no timing control. The thread went downhill fast. I chimed in on page six, then a user backed me up on page seven. Here's his nice attaboy:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=5481866#post5481866
John at J&S said:
I guess they talk about the normal N/A Subaru Impreza made turbo. Nice thread.
Well...I must ask this again (3rd try). As the other guy says.
John, Can I use the J&S for TIMING TUNNING? So I only have to take care of fuel tunning after the J&S?
This means the car will have the timing retarded all the time IF I want?
...Does it retards as soon as it detects boost?
...and as soon as it detects detonation it may retard even more?
Care to email me details? igdrasil@coqui.net
Little Beavis, come on, bring your comments here, I know you, I trust you. Sorry to ask again.
John at J&S
Member
Knock retard is enabled when the vacuum drops below 5 inches AND the RPM exceeds 1250.
Boost retard is totally separate from knock retard, and is controlled by two knobs.
The "Start" knob sets at what psi the boost retard starts. It's adjustable from 0 to 10psi. With the knob at mid range, boost retard will start at 5psi.
The "Rate" knob sets the amount of retard per psi, and is adjustable from 0 to 2 per psi.
Midrange RPM retard can also be specified when ordering. RPM and load are used to enable this feature, and the turn on points may be specified when ordering.
For reference, scroll to the bottom of the Focus install page:
http://www.jandssafeguard.com/FocusInstall.html
Boost retard is totally separate from knock retard, and is controlled by two knobs.
The "Start" knob sets at what psi the boost retard starts. It's adjustable from 0 to 10psi. With the knob at mid range, boost retard will start at 5psi.
The "Rate" knob sets the amount of retard per psi, and is adjustable from 0 to 2 per psi.
Midrange RPM retard can also be specified when ordering. RPM and load are used to enable this feature, and the turn on points may be specified when ordering.
For reference, scroll to the bottom of the Focus install page:
http://www.jandssafeguard.com/FocusInstall.html
Little Beavis
Member
- :
- 2001 MP3-T (#911)
igdrasil, it does everything you need for timing control!
My original thread. . .(read the first page) states that you can control the timing not only by "knock" but also by rpm (with the mid-range retard control), as well as, by boost.
Let's say you're running 10 psi (for example)
You can set the J&S to pull anything from 0 to 2 degrees per psi of boost (there is a dial that lets you dial in 1/2 degree or 1.5 degrees - basically whatever value between 0 and 2 you want).
Now the next question is. . .what if I don't want to pull timing until I'm at 6 psi. . .NO PROBLEM! There is an additional dial that allows you to select the "start" from 0 to 10 psi (I realize I'm being redundant John
).
So, you could set it to start at 6 psi and retard 1 degree per psi from 6 to 10 psi (your max boost in this example). Thus you would have 4 degrees of timing retard at full boost.
The only "issue" is you can't take 2 degrees at 7 psi and 1 at 8 psi and 1/2 at 9 and 10 psi, but I'm not sure you would want to.
In addition there is the mid-range timing control. If you specify a rpm range you want timing pulled from (often your knock will occur at a specific rpm range) you can specify to have timing pulled at this range. So, in effect you can do something to pull extra timing at specific ranges if you so desire. This is setup on my unit to "ramp up" starting at 2.5 psi and being "full force" at 5 psi. That means there is NO mid-range timing retard if my boost is less that 2.5 psi! If I were pulling 5 degrees of mid-range timing (just to make the numbers easy) I would pull 1 degree at 3 psi, 2 degrees at 3.5 psi, 3 degrees 4 psi, 4 degrees at 4.5 psi and 5 degrees at 5 psi and above. Hope that makes sense.
The system has ramps so that you don't suddenly have a "stumble" when it tries to take timing out or put timing back. That would be hard on the engine and you. . .so it ramps the retard in and out.
John. . .I would be curious, since it requires "hard wiring" this feature, is there anything that can be done with the "Map limiter" adjustments so that you could make the midrange move or the amount of retard variable????? Just curious. . .I'd be happy to test it for you!
Finally, the "MAIN" safeguard feature. . .knock retard. If after all your timing is setup and you end up with a bad tank of gas, the J&S will pull timing when it detects knock. This is in addition to your setting and only used when the engine knocks. You don't set the amount of timing it pulls, it does this for you. You can set it up to pull timing on all cylinders or only the one that knocks (the unit can detect which cylinder is firing and thus which cylinder timing to modify). It does all this faster and better than a human ever could.
The knock retard does not occur at idle or low load, and ignores "noise" other than that detected near TDC. You cannot have knock on a cylinder when it is at BDC obviously.
Anyway, it is a very good piece of equipment for timing and safety. It cannot be infinitely programmed, but the way it is setup does allow quite a range of freedom in timing control. Now if John could "use" my suggestion above, you would have even more control! Hint, hint, nudge, nudge!
Let me know if you want me to call you to talk about this (anyone).
My original thread. . .(read the first page) states that you can control the timing not only by "knock" but also by rpm (with the mid-range retard control), as well as, by boost.
Let's say you're running 10 psi (for example)
You can set the J&S to pull anything from 0 to 2 degrees per psi of boost (there is a dial that lets you dial in 1/2 degree or 1.5 degrees - basically whatever value between 0 and 2 you want).
Now the next question is. . .what if I don't want to pull timing until I'm at 6 psi. . .NO PROBLEM! There is an additional dial that allows you to select the "start" from 0 to 10 psi (I realize I'm being redundant John
). So, you could set it to start at 6 psi and retard 1 degree per psi from 6 to 10 psi (your max boost in this example). Thus you would have 4 degrees of timing retard at full boost.
The only "issue" is you can't take 2 degrees at 7 psi and 1 at 8 psi and 1/2 at 9 and 10 psi, but I'm not sure you would want to.
In addition there is the mid-range timing control. If you specify a rpm range you want timing pulled from (often your knock will occur at a specific rpm range) you can specify to have timing pulled at this range. So, in effect you can do something to pull extra timing at specific ranges if you so desire. This is setup on my unit to "ramp up" starting at 2.5 psi and being "full force" at 5 psi. That means there is NO mid-range timing retard if my boost is less that 2.5 psi! If I were pulling 5 degrees of mid-range timing (just to make the numbers easy) I would pull 1 degree at 3 psi, 2 degrees at 3.5 psi, 3 degrees 4 psi, 4 degrees at 4.5 psi and 5 degrees at 5 psi and above. Hope that makes sense.
The system has ramps so that you don't suddenly have a "stumble" when it tries to take timing out or put timing back. That would be hard on the engine and you. . .so it ramps the retard in and out.
John. . .I would be curious, since it requires "hard wiring" this feature, is there anything that can be done with the "Map limiter" adjustments so that you could make the midrange move or the amount of retard variable????? Just curious. . .I'd be happy to test it for you!
Finally, the "MAIN" safeguard feature. . .knock retard. If after all your timing is setup and you end up with a bad tank of gas, the J&S will pull timing when it detects knock. This is in addition to your setting and only used when the engine knocks. You don't set the amount of timing it pulls, it does this for you. You can set it up to pull timing on all cylinders or only the one that knocks (the unit can detect which cylinder is firing and thus which cylinder timing to modify). It does all this faster and better than a human ever could.
The knock retard does not occur at idle or low load, and ignores "noise" other than that detected near TDC. You cannot have knock on a cylinder when it is at BDC obviously.
Anyway, it is a very good piece of equipment for timing and safety. It cannot be infinitely programmed, but the way it is setup does allow quite a range of freedom in timing control. Now if John could "use" my suggestion above, you would have even more control! Hint, hint, nudge, nudge!
Let me know if you want me to call you to talk about this (anyone).
John at J&S
Member
The MAP Limiter knob does not connect to the processor. The only thing it controls is the adjustable voltage clamp circuit. This circuit prevents higher than normal MAP or mass air readings from setting CEL codes.
We used to make a standalone adjustable voltage clamp, which is now built into the unit:
http://www.jandssafeguard.com/test/images/MAPLimiter.jpg
Here's a scope photo of a unit under test, showing the input and the output. Note the sharp clamping action, compared to zener based "clamps", which show voltage creep:
http://www.jandssafeguard.com/test/images/MAPLimiterOutput.jpg
We used to make a standalone adjustable voltage clamp, which is now built into the unit:
http://www.jandssafeguard.com/test/images/MAPLimiter.jpg
Here's a scope photo of a unit under test, showing the input and the output. Note the sharp clamping action, compared to zener based "clamps", which show voltage creep:
http://www.jandssafeguard.com/test/images/MAPLimiterOutput.jpg
Little Beavis
Member
- :
- 2001 MP3-T (#911)
J&S is offering to do a GB on the safeguard for 15% off if 5 or more people buy before February 15th.
The normal price is $495, but you will also need the Bosch knock sensor which is $75.
Then if you want a gauge, you can buy one of those. I also have a gauge I could sell (since I made my own later on). I'll have to post pics when I get home.
The normal price is $495, but you will also need the Bosch knock sensor which is $75.
Then if you want a gauge, you can buy one of those. I also have a gauge I could sell (since I made my own later on). I'll have to post pics when I get home.
DooMer_MP3
Member
I want to buy one of these as I save up for my kit. Is anybody going to signup for the groupbuy? We should get 5 people!
Chris
Chris
Im in... 100%
DooMer_MP3
Member
I'll start a thread in the GB forum once John confirms my PM that this is still going on, and details... Then this thread won't get so Off Topic again 
. I'll post a link if and when to the new thread.
Chris
. I'll post a link if and when to the new thread.Chris
Little Beavis
Member
- :
- 2001 MP3-T (#911)
Well, that's cool then. . .we have three. . . and three "possibles".
I already started a GB thread just to try to get things a little more organized. And I've talked to John, the GB is definitely still on!
http://www.mazdamp3.com/vbb225/showthread.php?s=&postid=682124#post682124
I already started a GB thread just to try to get things a little more organized. And I've talked to John, the GB is definitely still on!
http://www.mazdamp3.com/vbb225/showthread.php?s=&postid=682124#post682124
DooMer_MP3
Member
In case people haven't checked the thread lately for the J&S Groupbuy (you get the safeguard for 15% off if we get 5+ people!), here is who is still DEFINITELY IN.
1) DooMer_MP3
2) CRDMS1
3) YP5 Toronto
We need two more people to confirm or more people to join in! This seems like a great product that is great for saving your engine from detonation! I've seen it first hand in Little Beavis' car, and I'm not turboing my MP3 without it!
Here is the GB thread:
http://www.msprotege.com/vbb300/showthread.php?t=48314&page=2
Chris
1) DooMer_MP3
2) CRDMS1
3) YP5 Toronto
We need two more people to confirm or more people to join in! This seems like a great product that is great for saving your engine from detonation! I've seen it first hand in Little Beavis' car, and I'm not turboing my MP3 without it!
Here is the GB thread:
http://www.msprotege.com/vbb300/showthread.php?t=48314&page=2
Chris
Little Beavis
Member
- :
- 2001 MP3-T (#911)
I believe John will still honor that price (but only John can confirm). I know one was ordered at that price only a little while ago.
Email John, he's pretty good about responding (not too bad with PMs either, but email is probably the easiest way).
Email John, he's pretty good about responding (not too bad with PMs either, but email is probably the easiest way).
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