Piggyback installed

[Installshield 2]

Well, if adding fuel is a problem because the PCM starts pulling it, why wouldn't it be the same and add fuel as I pull it???

This confused me a little...The stock ECU doesn't mind the adjustments initially...You can add fuel while driving or something, and the adjustments stick...But after more driving for a while the ECU "learns", and pulls it back...it is still up in the air to me on how exactly it does this, but it is probably a complex internal logging track that moniters the load and air speed/volume sensors and comparing it to the triggering of timing and the injectors...To my knowledge these piggybacks are not gaining full control of the injectors, and only being able to manipulate pulse widths and duty cycles by fooling the ECU by thinking it is at a higher load and more air is coming in than actually is...But through engine speed and memory of injector timing aspects or others the ECU can compare a bunch of different conditions and override what it is being shown...Returning it to pre-adjustments, or closer to it...It is most likely Ford's programming accuracy within the stock ECU...there are so many damn ways for it to judge what is going on, which makes it very difficult to trick...

 

[Micah]

MPNick has my engine, he can take pics of it. I don't mind. I'll try to find the ones I took, I think I have some of the holes, and one or two of the pieces of the rod.

 

[505zoom]

This confused me a little...The stock ECU doesn't mind the adjustments initially...You can add fuel while driving or something, and the adjustments stick...But after more driving for a while the ECU "learns", and pulls it back...it is still up in the air to me on how exactly it does this, but it is probably a complex internal logging track that moniters the load and air speed/volume sensors and comparing it to the triggering of timing and the injectors...

Sorry if I didn't word that very clearly. Yes this is exactly what I was saying, I understand that you can tune the car initially, but from everything I have been told the PCM will negate the changes you make after time. It basically learns that it is being tricked and makes adjustments to make the car run the way it wanted it to before the piggyback was there. I also don't really understand exactly what is at work to make this happen, but it does make sense to me after driving the car for 20,000 miles and reseting the PCM several times. It eventually learns things and makes changes to make it run the way it wants it to.

...there are so many damn ways for it to judge what is going on, which makes it very difficult to trick...

I agree again. I would like to know more about this product, and how it deals with all of these issues before dishing out over 1000$. Nick, if you don't want to give away any of your secrets about this thing, I totally understand. But you should also understand that not many people are willing to spend that kind of cash without knowing exactly how it works. I am very technical in everything that I do, and I like to know how things work, especially with my car. When I am installing a part on my car, or talking to my buddies about what I have done, I want to know EXACTLY what is going on.

If you are willing to PM me some very technical info about what your tuner does in every aspect of changing how the car runs, I would consider buying it. I have no resources or intentions to copy your design. However, simply stating that you have some guy that is running it that has no complaints does not convince me to spend that kind of cash. I need a device that does what you claim your tuner does. But I will not put a part on my car that I do not FULLY understand. I apoligize that I am a noob compared to your 19 years of tuning ford PCM's, but if you could break it all down and tell me exactly what your tuner does to achieve my goals, then I will buy it.

Thanks again for any answers you might have.

 

[igdrasil]

505zoom, why are you so concernedm dont you have a mazdaspeed?
A Mazdaspeed would be easier to work on it will not have all this problems, plus you have the timing and enough fuel.

Maybe you will be only needing a Wideband, an FCD, and if fuel is a problem...an FMU or maybe a couple of injector and an injector controller?

 

[acidbug]

Got a quick qestion w/ the MPI Tuner...Has anyone had any issues..w/ the Engine temp? As in..When you hit boost...Does the engine temp shoot to hot? Than when you release the gas and stay out of boost she goes back to normal operating?

Chas

 

[PaulMP3]

Got a quick qestion w/ the MPI Tuner...Has anyone had any issues..w/ the Engine temp? As in..When you hit boost...Does the engine temp shoot to hot? Than when you release the gas and stay out of boost she goes back to normal operating?

Chas

nope.. mine stays right below half all the time.

 

[505zoom]

505zoom, why are you so concernedm dont you have a mazdaspeed?
A Mazdaspeed would be easier to work on it will not have all this problems, plus you have the timing and enough fuel.

Maybe you will be only needing a Wideband, an FCD, and if fuel is a problem...an FMU or maybe a couple of injector and an injector controller?

Yeah, I drive a mazdaspeed. I am concerned because I have not seen any proof that a mazdaspeed can run properly with this or any piggyback. Also, if I have to borrow a windows based computer to tune my car, I don't want to do it frequently when the PCM makes changes.

My main goal is to retard the timing, while also pulling some fuel in the lower-mid RPM's. I would like to also add some fuel in the upper RPM's. I am not really looking for something to boost higher than the fuel cut, I just want to smooth this thing out, and make it safe for maybe 8-9psi in the higher RPM's.

 

[mazdamp3_18]

well guys im having the same issues with my emanage..


keep in mind im N/A also..

i tuned for 1.5 hours on the road the other day...

i turned off my car and went back to tune again..

the ecu went back to stock settings... it learned my changes ..

im beginning to think my only path will be standalone...

 

[PaulMP3]

well guys im having the same issues with my emanage..


keep in mind im N/A also..

i tuned for 1.5 hours on the road the other day...

i turned off my car and went back to tune again..

the ecu went back to stock settings... it learned my changes ..

im beginning to think my only path will be standalone...

This is the same thing that happened the first time we tuned my MPI tuner.. Had it tune perfectly, next day i was hitting 14.7.

 

[mazdamp3_18]

did you get your tuning to start staying though?



what i have noticed is that if i just tune open loop from 4k-7k the settings stay...


we need to find a way to trick the ecu to go in open loop constantly.....

 

[DooMer_MP3]

I wonder if MP3SkaterNC or whatever (the guy with the eManage that Terry setup for) is having these problems? Sounded like he had it installed for awhile, and working just fine. He just didn't have the timing setup yet...

Chris

 

[PaulMP3]

did you get your tuning to start staying though?



what i have noticed is that if i just tune open loop from 4k-7k the settings stay...


we need to find a way to trick the ecu to go in open loop constantly.....

Mine stays now... Just the first time we tuned it to 11.5:1 It ran perfect all day... the next day i got in and it was trying to achieve 14.7.. Now i just need to tune it up every once in a while to maintain safe AFR.

 

[acidbug]

Actually I checked my A/f for 2 days straight using a laptop...and They have stayed the same...

Chas

 

[Installshield 2]

nope.. mine stays right below half all the time.

Paul, is that reading based on the stock water temp gauge in the dash? Assuming so, that is not the best place to look in regards to consistent engine/water temp changes...Linux hooked up his PDF reader a while ago, and noticed through data logging that the temperatures vary dramtically despite the same reading from the dash gauge...Our stock temp gauge is more or less of a "dummy" gauge, that doesn't really move until a very large problem with the cooling system occurs...In which case it will rise and warn the driver of overheating...SRT-4's, on the other hand, have real time gauge that will show the actual increase in temps after a hard boosted squirt around...and you can watch it fall back down after normal driving...Gauges such as that are available, and much more accurate for driving conditions rather than just catastrophic temps that will destroy the engine...

In either case I am not saying anything is wrong with your engine heat wise...Just that the stock gauge isn't actually showing you that the temps of the engine and coolant are changing a lot more than you are being told...

 

[MPNick]

Mine stays now... Just the first time we tuned it to 11.5:1 It ran perfect all day... the next day i got in and it was trying to achieve 14.7.. Now i just need to tune it up every once in a while to maintain safe AFR.

I do not think the Chaz will have the same problem. For one he is tuning with the stock MAF. Second he has our new MPI/Modual Tuner. It will kick the PCM into open loop type mode when you hit boost. Any small fuel change in closed loop will not be picked up by the PCM and changed back. The newer set up does have an O2 clamp anyway. You would not need to use any other clamp.


Thanks again


Later..........Nick

 

[mazdamp3_18]

If i purchased the esc-1 from split second.... how would i get it to force the pcm to go to open loop since i do NOT have a turbo..

will this unit even work on my mp3?

if not.. how will it be even possible to keep the tuning that i do?

 

[MPNick]

If i purchased the esc-1 from split second.... how would i get it to force the pcm to go to open loop since i do NOT have a turbo..

will this unit even work on my mp3?

if not.. how will it be even possible to keep the tuning that i do?

I have no idea on ow the esc-1 works.

I know that MPI setup can get it into open loop mode.


Thanks again

Later............Nick

 

[mazdamp3_18]

even if i am not turboed?

 

[Installshield 2]

MPNick, How exactly are you getting your tuner to force the ECU into open loop upon boost? Being that all three protege's kick into open loop at different times/loads...and that each of the three do it inconsistently with other protege ECU's...

 

[acidbug]

I think it has to do w/ manipulating somthings..LOL..

w/ Engine Temp..and throttle Positioning..As well As a Sensor which See's Boost!

Chas