Please explain how running 5W-20 is a risk to my motor.
I suspect the best answer would be an oil analysis. Wear components would clearly show there, eh?
Last edited:
Official 'Smoking Turbo' response from Mazda
- Thread starter tunersteve
- Start date
Please explain how running 5W-20 is a risk to my motor.
I suspect the best answer would be an oil analysis. Wear components would clearly show there, eh?
More from what I'm learning ...
Apparently your oil pressure is effected by the weight of the oil. And, for proper lubrication and cooling, you need approximately 10psi oil pressure for each 1000RPM.
So, how many of you actually know what numbers your engine is producing with regards to such parameters?
For example, if your oil pressure is too high with xW-30, you might try xW-20. Conversely, if it's too low, perhaps you could increase the oil weight.
Apparently your oil pressure is effected by the weight of the oil. And, for proper lubrication and cooling, you need approximately 10psi oil pressure for each 1000RPM.
So, how many of you actually know what numbers your engine is producing with regards to such parameters?
For example, if your oil pressure is too high with xW-30, you might try xW-20. Conversely, if it's too low, perhaps you could increase the oil weight.
The point is how it goes against what WAS conventional thinking - that higher performance needed higher weight oils.
You're still not giving solid rationale for this recommendation. Please give citations and such or mechanical rationale for your recommendation so further reading can allow us to apply critical thought. Just because the manufacture recommends it does not make it correct (as we all know they have made incorrect or poor recommendations in the past).
How do you resolve the fact that Mazda gives different recommendation for European consumers vs American?
Last edited:
Yup, looks like you're doing your reading grasshopper!(homework)
I'm here to learn!
Please explain. BTW, if so, you have a better handle on the problem than does Mazda!
- :
- 2011 Mustang GT
Yes, originally, it was thought that higher weight oils were made for higher performing engines, no doubt. On the other hand, as I mentioned earlier, a RACING engine is a variation of a production engine, but cannot be treated as one in the same. If mechanical tolerances are different amongst both, then do not treat them as one.
The "logic" and "rationale" you speak of is simple; Mazda designs a motor and then rigorously tests it to determine proper oil drain intervals and oil weight for a production build that will be designed to last XXXX miles. I'm fairly certain that they put the time and effort in so that people like you and I don't have to question it.
On the other hand, with the smoking turbo might cause you to question their validity and methods, you are NOT an expert. Unless you're some degree toting ME or likewise, I find it hard to believe that you're searching via the internet is going to bring you to some epiphany regarding a "better" oil.
When this issue first surfaced, I went out and scoured the regions to find out which oil weight the JDM and EUDM 6/Atenza MPS used, as well as the drain intervals. After doing so, I found that 10w-40 was in the EUDM manual, and the intervals were the same. It is my guess that the USDM motor was reduced back down to 5w-30 for EPA mileage certifications, due to the fact that the car was initially delayed because the CEO of MNAO felt that the car needed more 'pep' in 6th gear, eliminating a fuel-efficient highway gear.
I'd also assume that when the smoking turbo fix was posted on the MTOL site back in 7/2009, that Mazda had already been working on a fix, and found that 5w-40 was an acceptable oil weight due to other regional recommendations and prior development. Since there have been changes made from the initial release of the MS6 up til the 2010 MS3, there have been obvious problems that have needed addressing.
I'm simply saying in layman's terms, you can read anything you want on the oil sites (which are full of good info), but applying it to our motors without validating the suggestions might be a big mistake. I'm going to stick with what the engineers at Mazda have suggested, and based on numerous UOAs of 5w-40 vs. 5w-30, the oil holds up better over an oil drain interval, with reduced fuel shearing/dilution as well.
- :
- 2011 Mustang GT
I'm still convinced that the problem is two-fold; poor tolerances on the initial build turbos vs. the Rev. C ones, and an improper PCV system.
Yes, your right. I'm not very impressed with the dealer at the moment. I'll be bringing the car in again tomorrow for smoking and i will bring this up yet again. I will double check my manual before i go too just to make sure that there is not some side note stating that 5w-20 is recommended.
I had a detailed (and assertive on my part) discussion with the service rep when i was there last week about this. They are fully aware of the smoking issue. When i brought up the 5w-40 oil, they assured me that they are following the recommendations laid out for them by Mazda Canada. I will just let them play this out and see where it goes. If it goes no where then i will start to get a little tougher. If i run into warrenty issues with the motor by MNAO then i'm pretty sure i can hold the dealer liable. This dealer has been VERY good to me in the past up until now so i am still hopeful that a resolution will be met. I will post my results from tomorrow visit (Kramer Mazda Calgary).
Any other Canadian owners want to chime in here with their experiences?
- :
- 2011 Mustang GT
Yes, you're right. The first # is the colder temp rating, the second is the rating at 210*F/100*C to simulate operating temps:
http://www.upmpg.com/tech_articles/motoroil_viscosity/index.html
- :
- 2011 Mustang GT
If you're at all not sure with their recommendations, ask them for some printed evidence of it. That way you can file it at home in case something happens.
Great suggestion, i will do this. Thank you.
- :
- 2011 Mustang GT
On top of that, you have dealer records of oil changes, which should help your case. Do your invoices say which weight oil was used?
Yes. the invoice says 5W-20. I will back check though on all of them (yes i have them all) to see if the same oil was used or if it was changed over at some point.
If i can get a print out of the recommendation for 5W-20, i will post it up too.
If i can get a print out of the recommendation for 5W-20, i will post it up too.
Last edited:
Well, I'm quite sure Mazda has a handle on the problem, but the fix is taking a while to hit the field.
Basically, to get the car to smoke, you cycle the throttle through several rev cycles similar to a ricer wanting to hear the BOV at a stoplight or impress the peeps at the Taco Bell. After a few cycles the oil is pooled up around the turbo shaft, the exhaust pressure on the turbine has been cycled high/low several times and the turbo shaft has banged against the thrust faces several times and finally allowed a path to open up for oil to get past the turbine side seal when back at idle. Now you have smoke at idle!
Ok, to get all the oil cleared out and the turbo sealed back up, you rev the engine to 3500-4000 no load and hold it there until it drops back to idle by itself. When this occurs, the engine will remain at idle even with the pedal floored, UNTIL you let the pedal come back to idle position. The exhaust will be clear with no smoke! At least until you play ricer with the revs again...
I haven't timed it for sure, but IIRC about 1 minute or so.
2006 MS6 with 20,000 miles on it, daily driver owned since new, approx 17 miles on odometer when bought. My only mod is a MSCAI.
The turbo smoking issue started for me at 10,000 miles. When I approached the dealership about it they could not replicate the problem. I even tried to replicate it and it wouldn't happen there. I was told Mazda knows there is a PCV issue and they are trying to come up with a fix. The last service I had in Nov 09, I was told that a fix should be out sometime this spring or summer.
I guess the problem is with oil pooling up in the turbo and then burning off, just like FORZA 1 said in an earlier post. I am due to go back in for service soon so I am going to bring this up to them (along with other issues I am having with the car, i.e. knock/fuel cut/loss of boost). I will see if I can pin down a date that Mazda is coming out with the PCV fix.
FYI, if you have this issue with your car, bring it to the dealership ASAP so they can log the complaint in. This way, I was told, that if your turbo ends up crapping out, they would replace it under warranty. Who knows if this is just BS PR but it couldn't hurt to let them know.
The turbo smoking issue started for me at 10,000 miles. When I approached the dealership about it they could not replicate the problem. I even tried to replicate it and it wouldn't happen there. I was told Mazda knows there is a PCV issue and they are trying to come up with a fix. The last service I had in Nov 09, I was told that a fix should be out sometime this spring or summer.
I guess the problem is with oil pooling up in the turbo and then burning off, just like FORZA 1 said in an earlier post. I am due to go back in for service soon so I am going to bring this up to them (along with other issues I am having with the car, i.e. knock/fuel cut/loss of boost). I will see if I can pin down a date that Mazda is coming out with the PCV fix.
FYI, if you have this issue with your car, bring it to the dealership ASAP so they can log the complaint in. This way, I was told, that if your turbo ends up crapping out, they would replace it under warranty. Who knows if this is just BS PR but it couldn't hurt to let them know.
So checked back with all of my services and all of my oil changes have been done with 5w-20 since i bought this MS6 new in 2006. I tried to talk to the service rep but i was a little late getting there after work and the regular guy was not there so the person i talked to was pretty useless and was not able to provide me with the specific proof of recommended oil. But he did say that they put it in all the cars serviced there and that it is a regional thing due to our climate, pretty generic answer so i am not satisfied. He did say that i would not have any warranty issues.
As far as result, the O2 sensor was replaced (it had failed) and they stated that they could not get the car to smoke after the sensor was changed. However by the time i got home, the car was smoking like a chimney. So needless to say i'm not very satisfied at the moment and i will be going back to the dealer the next chance i get. This time, i will be parking right in front of the main doors and let it smoke up the place (it's pretty bad) until a tech comes out to look at it and confirms the issue, that way they cant tell me that the smoking cant be reproduced.
