Goodbye Orange MSP

twiztedjeckel said:
who gives 2 s**** how much you have into your car? $100 says the guy that lays down $275k on a Murcialago didn't need to spend a dime on his car to make yours look like a b****.

but don't get me wrong. i have a strong love for the RX-7,well any rotary powered vehicle for that matter. i've owned one myself. they can be very lethal machines if put together correctly and small issues worked out in them.

markeddy-btw----let Saleen,Roush or Doug Rippie do whatever they can to a camero or mustang. they're front heavy muscle cars that live to oversteer. .95g's on a skid pad's impressive but whats more impressive is the 1G that the R1 model 93 RX-7 pulled stock straight off the assembly line. can you say "who's ya daddy?" oh by the way, there's a reason the 3rd gen 7 was referred to as Ferrari killer(chair)

I happen to think the Twin Turbo RX-7 was a TITS car!!! I knew a friend that had a heavily modified one that ran 11's all day long. He spent about 15k to the already BIG $$$ price of 30k+ to do that.

Actually the new Corvette Z06 will pound close to 1G on the skidpad. The RX-7 in it's day was a beast on the road granted were talking about the R1 of course. The other thing to remeber is the RX-7 back then with the TT setup was a 2800 lb. car or less, had a shorter wheel base, better center of gravity, etc. because of it's small frame.

My other point was that the RX-7 back then was made for a simple reason....to answer the call to make something comparable or in this case BETTER to alot of cars in it's day and TODAY to what American muscle had back then and now.

You can thank Detroit for pushing the IMPORT demand for performance up to where it is today....all I was asking is that you give credit where credit is due like I have done with the RX-7 and other imports.
 
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I thought this article summed things up very well.

http://www.scuderiaciriani.com/rx7/magazine_articles/Motor_Trend_article02.html

The RX-7 R1 performs admirably in many areas, and considering it's price tag of 30K+ out the door it's literally the best bargain of the bunch.

However, I don't know if I would consider all those numbers to be the Ferrari killer numbers. Maybe in some areas and on some models, but I happen to think that a Ferrari is quite over priced for what you get.

I would much rather have the German engineered Porsche for the money. Especially the AWD 400+HP 911...of course I don't want to take out a second mortgage to even attempt to afford one...
 
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I spent the last two years training to be a mechanic, and believe me... there are no winners in THIS argument. Every class has both sides fully represented.

I do know one thing though, out of the two years I was there, there was about a 1:20 ratio of imports:domestic needing any non-wear related work (everything besides brake-jobs, oil changes, etc.).

Not one of the V8 loving hicks in my class could argue with that when I pointed it out. Nor could they argue about all the interior quality issues that we were always dealing with.

I've worked at quite a few dealerships (import & domestic) and I've never seen the same cars so many times as when I was working in a GM dealership (Wheaton Pacific). I couldn't count how many crappily afixed interior parts I've had to replace on fire-chickens, grand-ams,grand-prix, & worst of all (barely) was the sunfire. Quite a few cars needed the same parts replaced more than once.

You also must admit that the ergonomics comparitively speaking are pretty pathetic in domestics. Yes, they're getting much better, but usualy in the higher dollar cars.

Sure, you can go out and buy a camaro, mustang or firebird for peanuts, but there is a REASON for that. They are CHEAPER cars, made with CHEAPER parts, put together by labourers that couldn't care less about their work or the end probuct. This is a blanket statement, and obviously doesn't speak for EVERY domestic car, but in my experience as someone that works on, and is around cars almost every waking minute, it holds true.

Look in a lemonade guide, the only Fords (cars) recommended (escort, probe) are the ones that share most parts with Mazda. When they stopped sharing... the rating went down.

I've owned domestics (this is way before I knew anything about cars), and sure, you can buy them cheap. Factor in the increased gas cosumption (domestic 4cyls in MOST cases cannot run as efficiently as imports) and the increased break-down probability, the the even worse re-sale value, it is not a deal.

This is just MY experience, I can't speak for ANYONE ELSE.

I do know that I have spanked quite a few 5.0 l LXs & GTs (pre '91ish, the nice, little & light donut machines) in my 1988 Mazda 323 GT (the 4dr 2wd version, '88 version of MSP). The only mods I had were an intake, bigger intercooler ('88 MX6/Probe GT, junkyard special), turbo-back mandrel bent exhaust, mild port/polish, sp plugs & wires, all with pretty much stock boost (a little extra from freeing up airflow). I've spanked them both in a straight line, and corners (come on now). I've held my own in the straights with many 'o' Z28s, but as soon as the twisties come... buh-bye wamaro!! and that's while getting approx 27 mpg (hardcore city driving) having nice, fully usable 60/40 split back seats, a sunroof, power windows/locks, 3-way adjustable suspension and a huge trunk, ALL STOCK. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention the INDEPENDENT SUSPENSION AND FOUR WHEEL DISC BRAKES.

All that for $2000 plus maybe a thousand more = $3000. And that's Canadian dollars, so you americans wouldv'e only paid 3 dollars and fity five cents (actually more like $2000-$2200). I'm not sure how much you can buy a 5.0l for?

Each to their own... Everyone is different... and thank god for that!!! I'm just happy we're not all driving Toyota Echos!! And that there are enough different cars out there for people like us to grow fond of and then argue about til no end.

Bottom line... if it burns gasoline and has four wheels, it's better than walking.
 
Yes, most manufacturers have their share of problems. I cannot argue with your 1:20 ratio because I do not have statistical data in front of me, but you also have to remember that betwen the BIG3 (FORD, CHEVROLET, and CHRYSLER) they produce and have the most vehicles on the road in the United States.

I wouldn't be surprised if the BIG3 have 60-70% of the vehicles on the road today in the Country. Maintenance and the way the car is driven are also closely related to reliability and longevity.

In all honesty, the division between muscle cars and imports is really pointless. Out of the box, both types of cars have different goals to an extent. Imports will generally do better than domestics when it comes to a tight autocrossing course.

Domestics are generally better at accelerating, in an apples to apples comparison NORMALLY aspirated (no turbo/no supercharger) it's not even a contest.

And if you're going to modify the hell out of them....your starting point doesnt really matter cuz ur gonna change everything anyways.
 
markeddy said:
but I happen to think that a Ferrari is quite over priced for what you get.

Sorry to flip flop so much I just dont know how to keep my mouth shut about certian things. but "for what you get".... Your not paying for 1/4 times when you buy a Ferrari
http://www.barchetta.cc/all.ferraris/2001.colors/
Check that out for starters.
If you look at Ferrari and are only looking at their numbers than your missing the whole point and cant understand nor apperciate what there really about.
 
FBI14 said:
Sorry to flip flop so much I just dont know how to keep my mouth shut about certian things. but "for what you get".... Your not paying for 1/4 times when you buy a Ferrari
http://www.barchetta.cc/all.ferraris/2001.colors/
Check that out for starters.
If you look at Ferrari and are only looking at their numbers than your missing the whole point and cant understand nor apperciate what there really about.

Actually I totally understand your point about Ferrari. It's Italian and I know exactly what that means.

The same is true with the Japanese bike manufacturers vs. Ducati and other European bike manufacturers.

Sure I can own a Yamaha R1, GSX-R1000, CBR954RR, both none of them compare to the style, uniqueness, or mistique of an Italian V-Twin bike like a Ducati 998, 999 or Aprilia. I am speaking from experience here because I have owned 3 different Japanese bikes and none of them have ever compared to my Italian made Ducati 998.

There is just a certain feel, look, aura, etc. about it. It's like being in a rare breed of motorcycle owners, it's unique and not everyone owns one nor can they afford one, it's 3x's the price of a comparable Japanese bike and it's not always about the #'s on the track.

Funny thing is if I am going to do track racing I goto BIR in Minnesota here where I can hang off my 998 at 120+ through Turn 1 and hit 160-170mph in the straights.

That's excitement!!!

So I was probably a little hasty when I made that remark.

Although for the money I would still rather take the Porsche 911 AWD 400+ HP monster for less money, but yes in the end I can't say I own a Ferrari.

Point well taken...and I do understand.
 
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Sure I can own a Yamaha R1, GSX-R1000, CBR954RR, both none of them compare to the style, uniqueness, or mistique of an Italian V-Twin bike like a Ducati 998, 999 or Aprilia. I am speaking from experience here because I have owned 3 different Japanese bikes and none of them have ever compared to my Italian made Ducati 998.
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so your a bike owner too....i too had my share of bikes...yeah your right about the difference between the italian bikes and the japanese bikes...i owned a TLR1000 also knowned as "duc eater", GSXR 750 and now i owne a 954RR which i like better than any oe those bikes...its light and nimble also the clutch doesnt rattle like the ducati...and when you do down the bike its not as bad if you down a duc....
 
I don't know if the TL1000R is what I would call a "Duc eater". I have no problems keeping up with an R1 on the road if I want to race a straight line. But I bought my Ducati for one reason, the thing feels like a hot knife through butter when I hit the corners hard. It's confidence inspiring, forgiving, and handles better than any Japanese bike I have had the pleasure of riding in the past.

I hear ya, my 998 eats up the corners, the only reason the clutch is loud is because it's a dry clutch which means it's gonna be noisier, it's all part of the personality of the bike.

Don't get me wrong you can buy a Japanese bike and literally NOT do any maintenance, beat the hell out of it, and drive it for 30,000 miles and it will start up without any problems.

Try and do that to a Ducati and you are begging for big $$$'s in repair.
 
i give you props on your choice of bike..i would get a duc if the maintenance wasnt so damn high..and i did run my TLR against a duc and took that bike...but my bike weighted a like a ton..heavy bike...i couldnt keep that bike upright from riding all day... and whats up with the superbikes, they wont let the GiXXER 1000 run free without the restrictions thats why ducati is dominating the superbikes...
 
mborg1 said:
i give you props on your choice of bike..i would get a duc if the maintenance wasnt so damn high..and i did run my TLR against a duc and took that bike...but my bike weighted a like a ton..heavy bike...i couldnt keep that bike upright from riding all day... and whats up with the superbikes, they wont let the GiXXER 1000 run free without the restrictions thats why ducati is dominating the superbikes...

Agreed on your points, and there may not even be a World Superbike after this year...sound like all the manufacturers are pissed with the change in regulations/restrictions/requirements and I saw an article that pretty much indicated WSB would be dead after this year or 04'.

The nice thing was when I bought my Ducati they had a 2-year free maintenance agreement with the bike which includes the 600, 6000, and 10000 mile services parts/labor and everything for free!

From what I have heard those are pretty much the MOST critical service intervals that alot of people neglect...so I really came out ahead considering I bought my 998 for around $14k NEW and got Ducati's 2-year free maintenance to boot which is worth around $1500.00.

I got a smoking deal on it and then threw the Termignoni Carbon 1/2 system on it last year shortly after I bought it and it sounds unreal!!!
 
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I got $14,900 for my Orange Speed. It was sold to someone the minute I walked out of the dealer. It helps that I owed about 5k on it. The MSP's are in demand and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Mazda's service is way better than Mitsubishi's, if you can imagine that. The Evo is F'n cool and came in handy with the snow this year. No probs.
 
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