you cannot run the fs-ze adequately on an mp3 ecu. Best option is to get an fs-de engine to be smog legal and sell the fs-ze to cover some of the expense. I doubt anyone has you're set-up because it doesn't work. You can try higher octane gas (you should be running 91 on the mp3 ecu anyway) to have less pinging but your not really helping the engine with this set-up.
Fs Ze And The Story of the Uncontrollable Ping
- Thread starter lostmybook
- Start date
tweety2300
Member
- :
- 2001 mazda protege mp3
The Ze can run on the mp3 ecu with out problems the op obviously has some sort of issue probly the exhaust restricting the exhaust flow too much causing exhaust gases to stay in the combustion chamber. There is a reason the sky active motors come with a 4-2-1 header stock. The fsze swap is something I've looked into heavily. Unless you go to obd1 you can't use the ze ecu there are options to make the motor do very well on mp3 ecu such as ssafc or other piggy back. But he can't use those because of ca laws, try gutting the precat and see what happens it will probly stop pinging
I get that he can't use piggybacks and the such why I suggested getting and fs-de engine. Probably less headache than throwing parts at it.
If it's an exhaust issue maybe the timming of the cams are off? the crank pulley was changed And it was metnioned about 2 cats in a mid-pipe, what about going with a header to an msp mid-pipe that has 2 cats w/ an o2 sensor inbetween?
If it's an exhaust issue maybe the timming of the cams are off? the crank pulley was changed And it was metnioned about 2 cats in a mid-pipe, what about going with a header to an msp mid-pipe that has 2 cats w/ an o2 sensor inbetween?
Only quick, easy suggestion I would have is to run colder plugs - possibly the longer reach version too. I doubt they will be enough on their own but between them and some 91 RON fuel it might help things a bit.
There are guys here in Aus that have thrown an FS-ZE in and run it on the stock 1.8 ECU - although they did have the 4-2-1 header. It generally ran alright albeit a bit rich. I would agree that it would be worth checking the timing belt to make sure it is not a tooth off somehow.
There are guys here in Aus that have thrown an FS-ZE in and run it on the stock 1.8 ECU - although they did have the 4-2-1 header. It generally ran alright albeit a bit rich. I would agree that it would be worth checking the timing belt to make sure it is not a tooth off somehow.
- :
- 2003 Protege5
LinuxRacer did an FSZE swap on his MP3.
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?2925-MP3-FS-ZE-Dyno/page2
He didn't mention any pinging, just disappointed at his Dyno. So, he either drives at WOT at every hill he sees, or doesn't have pinging as bad as me
I actually should PM him...
o0n8: Can you give me a link to a thread you know of that talks about your MSP midpipe idea?
Anyways, again thanks for the input! FYI, I always run 91 octane. If it gets too hot and unbearable I get a couple gallons of 100 octane. Cooler spark plugs definitely helped me! But as with switching to the MP3 ECU, it only reduced pinging minimally. My current plugs are NGK ZFR7F-11; long reach, 2 steps cooler than stock -__- but no fouling... yet.
I like this crank shaft idea! Never really thought of cam timing... I really don't know too much about it. However, my timing belt constantly (and quietly) squeaks (the whole time it's on pretty much)... sometimes squeals for about 10 seconds upon cold starts, could this be a sign or possible scenario that could induce timing shifts? Uhh what I'm trying to say is, what should I tell the mechanic to check for to diagnose this?? He mentioned before, with only quick examination, that the ball bearing for the belt pulley was old, making the squeak, but it could still be driven...
I really like that suggestion. It considers abnormalities that I could have in the an otherwise (theoretically) pingless set up.
OK, so the main ideas i'm getting currently are 1) Unclog the exhaust, and 2) examine cam timing.
Thanks again guys! As a noob at cars, I appreciate the real advice I'm getting, not just those kids in Civic forums bragging about how they beat a Corolla...
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?2925-MP3-FS-ZE-Dyno/page2
He didn't mention any pinging, just disappointed at his Dyno. So, he either drives at WOT at every hill he sees, or doesn't have pinging as bad as me
I actually should PM him... o0n8: Can you give me a link to a thread you know of that talks about your MSP midpipe idea?
Anyways, again thanks for the input! FYI, I always run 91 octane. If it gets too hot and unbearable I get a couple gallons of 100 octane. Cooler spark plugs definitely helped me! But as with switching to the MP3 ECU, it only reduced pinging minimally. My current plugs are NGK ZFR7F-11; long reach, 2 steps cooler than stock -__- but no fouling... yet.
I like this crank shaft idea! Never really thought of cam timing... I really don't know too much about it. However, my timing belt constantly (and quietly) squeaks (the whole time it's on pretty much)... sometimes squeals for about 10 seconds upon cold starts, could this be a sign or possible scenario that could induce timing shifts? Uhh what I'm trying to say is, what should I tell the mechanic to check for to diagnose this?? He mentioned before, with only quick examination, that the ball bearing for the belt pulley was old, making the squeak, but it could still be driven...
I really like that suggestion. It considers abnormalities that I could have in the an otherwise (theoretically) pingless set up.
OK, so the main ideas i'm getting currently are 1) Unclog the exhaust, and 2) examine cam timing.
Thanks again guys! As a noob at cars, I appreciate the real advice I'm getting, not just those kids in Civic forums bragging about how they beat a Corolla...
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/show...idpipe-w-both-catalytic-converters-and-J-pipe
best i could find. basically in the msp exhaust system where your pre-cat is there's a turbo so everything gets moved down the line.
or there is after market with a cat
- :
- 2003 Protege5
Thanks!! So this will bolt right on to my car with after market headers with no modifications, huh?
School ends in a couple of weeks... then I can start doing things. Do you you know if the Mazdaspeed front cat is the same ( in terms of capacity and flow rate) than the P5?
School ends in a couple of weeks... then I can start doing things. Do you you know if the Mazdaspeed front cat is the same ( in terms of capacity and flow rate) than the P5?
tweety2300
Member
- :
- 2001 mazda protege mp3
You realize bad bearings in a pully can make a pinging or ticking or knocking sound right?
- :
- 2003 Protege5
Nope I didn't
I really think it's the "genuine" engine ping though, since it goes away with 100 octane...- :
- 2003 Protege5
UPDATE:
I know this is a dead thread but hopefully this will benefit any poor soul out there that has/will have this problem. So since my last post I have gutted my primary cat, and like all other things I have done previously (except 100 octane), it reduced the pinging only marginally.
However, I recently did a coolant flush and put in Mazdas "long-life" coolant (dark green). During the flush I was surprised to see so much air trapped in the coolant system. I thought to myself, if there is air, it can be causing the cylinders to run hotter than usual, contributing to the pinging. This was largely the case.
The pinging is not totally eliminated, but this has substantially reduced it more than any other single things I have done. Even in 100+ weather going uphill on the 10 freeway (in Cali), I do not hear any more pinging, and because of it, I have more power during uphills.
I noticed after the coolant flush on a drive that my engine temp gauge was a tad bit lower, which got me thinking, is my temp gauge too high? These are pics after the coolant flush:
Closer up:
I would say it was 1 or 2 hashes higher before the coolant flush, slightly below middle (I thought that was normal reading for our cars). Bad thermostat? Coolant leaks from hoses? What do you guys think. I might end up getting a compression test just to check that it's not a failing head gasket (Heaven forbid).
I know this is a dead thread but hopefully this will benefit any poor soul out there that has/will have this problem. So since my last post I have gutted my primary cat, and like all other things I have done previously (except 100 octane), it reduced the pinging only marginally.
However, I recently did a coolant flush and put in Mazdas "long-life" coolant (dark green). During the flush I was surprised to see so much air trapped in the coolant system. I thought to myself, if there is air, it can be causing the cylinders to run hotter than usual, contributing to the pinging. This was largely the case.
The pinging is not totally eliminated, but this has substantially reduced it more than any other single things I have done. Even in 100+ weather going uphill on the 10 freeway (in Cali), I do not hear any more pinging, and because of it, I have more power during uphills.
I noticed after the coolant flush on a drive that my engine temp gauge was a tad bit lower, which got me thinking, is my temp gauge too high? These are pics after the coolant flush:
Closer up:
I would say it was 1 or 2 hashes higher before the coolant flush, slightly below middle (I thought that was normal reading for our cars). Bad thermostat? Coolant leaks from hoses? What do you guys think. I might end up getting a compression test just to check that it's not a failing head gasket (Heaven forbid).
tweety2300
Member
- :
- 2001 mazda protege mp3
Cylinders shouldn't get hot enough to ping unless it's runing lean. Do you have a wide band?
Also that is normal operating temps. If you wana get crazy with it get a 160 fail safe tstat.
Also why is your cel on?
Also that is normal operating temps. If you wana get crazy with it get a 160 fail safe tstat.
Also why is your cel on?
- :
- 2003 Protege5
Thanks for reply. Would 160 be "too cold?" I had never thought of it running lean. Someone told me that the MP3 ECU should produce adequate air fuel ratios... Also, I don't know what you mean by "wide band." The CEL is on because I gutted the primary cat and don't have none-foulers on.
RicoP5 said:
I'm glad I could be of some help Rico. But I'm almost convinced that the pinging problems I have are unique to my system only (like the coolant thing), as I have read here people have ran the FS ZE with my set up with no pinging with with 91-93 octane.
- :
- aggressive auto culture
160 is way to cold. It's designed to opperate efficiently at between 190 and 210.
tweety2300
Member
- :
- 2001 mazda protege mp3
For emissions it is. For performance 160-170 is almost perfect the cooler the better. Not to mention this is water temp not oil.
A wide band will tell you what the exact air fuel ratio is. They're around $200 new so if you can borrow one.
The mp3 ecu does run them just fine when the motor is runing right.
The cel will trip on for the precat not the main cat, We have 2. when it comes on for this it will run richer( or Atleast mine did) so if the ping is less noticeable now after you did this I would say its probly runing lean
A wide band will tell you what the exact air fuel ratio is. They're around $200 new so if you can borrow one.
The mp3 ecu does run them just fine when the motor is runing right.
The cel will trip on for the precat not the main cat, We have 2. when it comes on for this it will run richer( or Atleast mine did) so if the ping is less noticeable now after you did this I would say its probly runing lean
- :
- 2003 Protege5
AHH sorry! I have been saying primary cat this whole time but I have been meaning PRECAT (one built on to exhast manifold). I gutted the PRECAT. Sorry for the confusion. OK so let me see if I understand you...
Before I gutted the pre-cat, the CEL was already on (my mechanic pulled it and it was "ineffecient pre-cat" or something). So you're saying at that point in time, when the CEL was first tripped, it was running richer. If it was, it wasn't rich enough because it was still pinging moderately heavy. But, you say cylinder temps shouldn't get hot enough to ping unless it was running lean. So I'm safe to assume that gutting the pre-cat has ultimately left my car running lean, and that I would benefit from a richer mixture? Would installing none-foulers to satisfy the CEL make it run richer again? Thanks for the wideband, hopefully I can borrow one...
tweety2300
Member
- :
- 2001 mazda protege mp3
No if it was already tripped it wouldn't make a difference.
I'd say it's either runing lean or you still have too much back preassure.
If you've looked into the new sky active engine they had to use a 4-2-1 header to free up the exhaust flow and they're 14:1 compression
I'd say it's either runing lean or you still have too much back preassure.
If you've looked into the new sky active engine they had to use a 4-2-1 header to free up the exhaust flow and they're 14:1 compression
- :
- aggressive auto culture
How so?
The second o2 is a cat monitor, does nothing but see if the cat is working properly. It will not run rich or lean just because you gutted a cat. Doesn't work that way.
The second o2 is a cat monitor, does nothing but see if the cat is working properly. It will not run rich or lean just because you gutted a cat. Doesn't work that way.
