2023 CX-5 Turbo Whining Noise

[sinistriel@]

With regular (30-40K) fluid changes, is it necessary to change the filter or does the filter just catch the bigger particles. If filter change makes a big difference then at what mileage would you consider to be the maximum.

I personally would drop the pan and change the filter at those intervals. Driving habits play a big role in wear as well, I've seen the Sky's also last to 200k miles without a service.

 

[Jmaz]

I personally would drop the pan and change the filter at those intervals. Driving habits play a big role in wear as well, I've seen the Sky's also last to 200k miles without a service.

Gotcha. Thanks. Might be a good project for a nice (non-windy) spring/early summer day. I'm bumping 69K miles now and did 2 D&F at 43-45K. Zero problems.

 

[Greg_J]

The issue is the bearing in these pictures. It goes in the center case of the transmission and splines into the output gear of the transmission and it helps support the geartrain. If any debris gets inside them it can grab the roller surfaces and pit the bearing. Because the transmission output gear is directly supported by the bearing it will make noise as the vehicle speed increases. The bearing is put in place and partially integrated into the surrounding case. There is an aftermarket process that you can sleeve the case and install a new bearing or you purchase a new case half from Mazda.

The first two pictures are the center case where the bearing is, on one side is the output gear, the other is the bearing in the case.

Third picture is the part of the planet the output gear slides over.

Last picture is the bearing itself, pitted rollers and damaged race.

Thanks for sharing the photos and your explanation.
My 2022 has been creating this exact noise from the very first day (3 miles on the odometer). Maybe something else causes it in my case, but I doubt there can be any debris at almost zero mileage.

 

[yrwei52]

I personally would drop the pan and change the filter at those intervals. Driving habits play a big role in wear as well, I've seen the Sky's also last to 200k miles without a service.

Since you’ve mentioned dropping the pan, can you tell us what is the reason Mazda uses RTV instead a synthetic gasket for the pan? And is there any drawbacks by using the pan gasket which is available from aftermarket ATF filter kit instead of RTV to re-seal the ATF pan? As the Mazda Workshop Manual instructs applying the RTV on both sides of the ATF pan and mating body, that would be almost impossible to apply the RTV to the transmission body when it is sitting in the car. It’d be appreciated to give us your opinion on this!

 

[yrwei52]

The issue is the bearing in these pictures. It goes in the center case of the transmission and splines into the output gear of the transmission and it helps support the geartrain. If any debris gets inside them it can grab the roller surfaces and pit the bearing. Because the transmission output gear is directly supported by the bearing it will make noise as the vehicle speed increases. The bearing is put in place and partially integrated into the surrounding case. There is an aftermarket process that you can sleeve the case and install a new bearing or you purchase a new case half from Mazda.

The first two pictures are the center case where the bearing is, on one side is the output gear, the other is the bearing in the case.

Third picture is the part of the planet the output gear slides over.

Last picture is the bearing itself, pitted rollers and damaged race.

TSB No.: 05-002/19 Whining Noise from Automatic Transaxle

Actually this's the 7th revision on the same TSB for the same transmission whining noise due to front input bearing failure since 2014. Each time the TSB says "This is caused by a damaged bearing in the transaxle due to improper configuration of the transaxle case. A modification has now been implemented on automatic transaxles with the following serial numbers:". But it seems the modification continues and the same problem potentially is still there.

 

[madar]

TSB No.: 05-002/19 Whining Noise from Automatic Transaxle

Actually this's the 7th revision on the same TSB for the same transmission whining noise due to front input bearing failure since 2014. Each time the TSB says "This is caused by a damaged bearing in the transaxle due to improper configuration of the transaxle case. A modification has now been implemented on automatic transaxles with the following serial numbers:". But it seems the modification continues and the same problem potentially is still there.

Apparently, they're still damaging the bearings. On my 2014 CX5, the noise appeared at 32k miles. Anyway, I plan a filter change sometime in 2024 after another fluid refresh earlier in the year. I was thinking about that TSB, good you brought it up. Maybe sinitriel@ could comment on that as well. I find his input to be invaluable.

 

[sinistriel@]

TSB No.: 05-002/19 Whining Noise from Automatic Transaxle

Actually this's the 7th revision on the same TSB for the same transmission whining noise due to front input bearing failure since 2014. Each time the TSB says "This is caused by a damaged bearing in the transaxle due to improper configuration of the transaxle case. A modification has now been implemented on automatic transaxles with the following serial numbers:". But it seems the modification continues and the same problem potentially is still there.

I haven't had the opportunity to pull apart a new Sky with the noise, all the ones we've opened with the noise have damaged balls and races with some good mileage on them. On a brand new one with the noise it's likely an alignment issue with either the case or bearing not being completely true.

 

[sinistriel@]

Since you’ve mentioned dropping the pan, can you tell us what is the reason Mazda uses RTV instead a synthetic gasket for the pan? And is there any drawbacks by using the pan gasket which is available from aftermarket ATF filter kit instead of RTV to re-seal the ATF pan? As the Mazda Workshop Manual instructs applying the RTV on both sides of the ATF pan and mating body, that would be almost impossible to apply the RTV to the transmission body when it is sitting in the car. It’d be appreciated to give us your opinion on this!

RTV is used by OEMs in a situation like this to minimize any leaks that make occur. Using a gasket between two surfaces that were not designed for a gasket can cause a potential leak. Our rule of thumb is if it came with a gasket it gets one, if it has RTV it gets that.

 

[1killera4]

Gotta tell ya, the Trans is just about the only thing I don't like about the wifes Carbon AWD Turbo. That and the top gear.

 

[Jmaz]

RTV is used by OEMs in a situation like this to minimize any leaks that make occur. Using a gasket between two surfaces that were not designed for a gasket can cause a potential leak. Our rule of thumb is if it came with a gasket it gets one, if it has RTV it gets that.

Good practice. Makes sense.

 

[chickdr]

Gotta tell ya, the Trans is just about the only thing I don't like about the wifes Carbon AWD Turbo. That and the top gear.

What about the top gear? Do you mean that it's only a 6-sp?

 

[1killera4]

What about the top gear? Do you mean that it's only a 6-sp?

Correct.

 

[yrwei52]

Correct.

Mazda jointed the party very late, but at least they came out a new 8-speed automatic for its new CX-90.

IMO, Mazda really should spend money to develop an 8-speed auto much earlier, instead they spend money to the wrong direction - the problematic cylinder deactivation.

 

[madar]

Mazda jointed the party very late, but at least they came out a new 8-speed automatic for its new CX-90.

IMO, Mazda really should spend money to develop an 8-speed auto much earlier, instead they spend money to the wrong direction - the problematic cylinder deactivation.

You have to realize a lot of this nonsense is government driven- CAFE standards. Hence, you see V8 engines being dropped for turbo 6 cylinder engines that deliver the same fuel mileage , Super small 3 cylinder and 4 cylinder engines being turbo charged to do the same as something a larger 4 cylinder or even a V6 engine would have done in the past, and gimmicks like CD all over the board. Blame Uncle Sam.

 

[yrwei52]

You have to realize a lot of this nonsense is government driven- CAFE standards. Hence, you see V8 engines being dropped for turbo 6 cylinder engines that deliver the same fuel mileage , Super small 3 cylinder and 4 cylinder engines being turbo charged to do the same as something a larger 4 cylinder or even a V6 engine would have done in the past, and gimmicks like CD all over the board. Blame Uncle Sam.

I agree, but fuel efficiency on cars does have improved greatly during these years. I was saying instead of using the problematic cylinder deactivation on a “4-cylinder” engine for additional 0 ~ 1 MPG, Mazda should have spent the R&D money on an 8-speed auto for the same 0 ~ 1 MPG gain on EPA ratings.

 

[chickdr]

I will take the 6-sp any day over a CVT. I have a 9-sp in my Frontier and don't really see any advantage over the 6-sp in the CX-5. I guess it may have a lower rpm at highway speeds but that could be the 3.8L V6 more than the 9-sp.

 

[madar]

I agree, but fuel efficiency on cars does have improved greatly during these years. I was saying instead of using the problematic cylinder deactivation on a “4-cylinder” engine for additional 0 ~ 1 MPG, Mazda should have spent the R&D money on an 8-speed auto for the same 0 ~ 1 MPG gain on EPA ratings.

Going after perfectly fine engines seems to be the industry standard.

 

[yrwei52]

I will take the 6-sp any day over a CVT. I have a 9-sp in my Frontier and don't really see any advantage over the 6-sp in the CX-5. I guess it may have a lower rpm at highway speeds but that could be the 3.8L V6 more than the 9-sp.

If you believe a 6-speed auto is good enough, then why almost everybody else has switched to the 8-speed or 9-speed automatic long ago if not a CVT for minimum EPA gain? Now Mazda finally has followed suit and it’s better late than never.

You can’t deny CVT is the most efficient transmission on market right now. More gears like 8 or 9-speed automatic can resemble a CVT more on fuel economy for different kind of driving conditions, but keeps the driving feels of a traditional step transmission. It’s a win-win situation!

 

[madar]

If you believe a 6-speed auto is good enough, then why almost everybody else has switched to the 8-speed or 9-speed automatic long ago if not a CVT for minimum EPA gain? Now Mazda finally has followed suit and it’s better late than never.

You can’t deny CVT is the most efficient transmission on market right now. More gears like 8 or 9-speed automatic can resemble a CVT more on fuel economy for different kind of driving conditions, but keeps the driving feels of a traditional step transmission. It’s a win-win situation!

If you don't mind having them rebuilt every 100k miles or so, no thanks...except maybe for Toyota. They have a twist on there's.

 

[yrwei52]

If you don't mind having them rebuilt every 100k miles or so, no thanks...except maybe for Toyota. They have a twist on there's.

The newer 8-speed or 9-speed automatic is nothing special but squeezes in 2 or 3 extra gears in there. The reliability issue has nothing to do with the concept of adding additional gears. If Toyota can do it, everybody else can do it too if they’re willing.

Cylinder deactivation on the other hand is a totally different story.