What to buy? MS3 or Civic si

[sparkplug]

Well I have to tell you that I love the Speed 3 and everyone that drives in it with me loves the handling and the power. It keeps everyone smilling. People are shocked at how well it holds an onramp to the freeway. Actually the handling is sometimes dangerous for other people because people with lesser cars will often try to follow you to find out there cars are not designed properly and loose control of them. I would do the Speed3 hands down. It's comfortable, fast, loads of power and what a hoot to drive compared to anything out there for the price. The really nice thing is that the rear always follows the nose on hard sweeping turns which is fun.

Just ask all the SI, WRX, Mustangs, etc.... that come up beside me and think they are blowing this thing away to find out that this car can hold its own and then some with some of these cars.

All around this car spells FUN all around. Any car that makes me want to take the long way around to get milk at the store is a keeper in my books.

When considering 4 cylinders of varying makes, Honda tends to be among the lowest in terms of torque but I agree, a lot of that has to do with the displacement they chose to build on. Nevertheless, when comparing both these cars (ms3/SI) you have to as they come right off the factory floor.

Right now Mazda is offering a high performance 4-banger for peanuts. Yeah it uses a turbo but you can't say, 'well if you put a turbo on a SI it will....' If you put a turbo on the n/a 3 (like the Hiboost kits available) they make crazy power too, I've seen upwards of 400 hp. If you put a bigger turbo on the ms3 and tune it, it will make a whole hell of a lot more hp as well. Playing the if game can apply to every car.

And while I'm sure the SI's engine is over-engineered, I seriously doubt it will run 600 whp on stock internals. Sorry to be a doubter there, but if you can point me to a link I'd be less of a skeptic.

 

[chaos4]

To each their own. Everyone is different.

I LOVE my Si because of the handling and the VTEC power. I hate the visability out of it.

Now the MS3 I LOVE the visability of it....but hate the not to stiff handling. I do love the HP and torque of the Speed.

But the Si will be missed TERRIBLY to me.

In another forum you said you missed your S2000. Which is it?

 

[div2]

Well Actually the handling is sometimes dangerous for other people because people with lesser cars will often try to follow you to find out there cars are not designed properly and loose control of them.

That's not dangerous, it's called BIG FUN!!! Back in the mid-eighties I once had a "good ol' boy" in a 2nd Gen. Z28 try to keep up with my tweaked BMW Bavaria 3.0.- on a winding two lane. He actually did pretty well until he tore the oil pan off on a frost heave that the Bimmer suspension shrugged off with no drama.
I call it EIA: Evolution In Action...

 

[knowledge007]

SI's suck ass...!!! MS3 corners way better than an SI. It has been tested and proven.

 

[Speed3girl]

SI's suck ass...!!! MS3 corners way better than an SI. It has been tested and proven.

Well you may think they do....but I have had both and the Si feels better to me. It may be proven but that is my opinion. I think both cars are great!! But you can not beat the turbo speed.

 

[knowledge007]

Don't worry your mind will change in approx. 500 miles...lmao

BTW, not to bust your chops or anything how can I think if it is a fact? Just wondering...

 

[I vtec do you?]

This is why I love the new SI:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KS6NfIf7vg

Stock motor.. bad tires, 18 in heavy rims.. etc etc.

I'm not trying to knock the MS3.. but look! First turbo produced for this car, no tuning options.. NOTHING on the car built up really. Full interior in tact, seats, spare tire.. crappy ass tires (no DRs), 18 in rims.. And it's running 11s! Can you imagine drag radials, built up suspension, beefed up internals, etc.. This would be running 10s no problem, very low 10s with a tuning option ( kpro ftw?)

Stock for stock, the MS3 whips the SI's ass. I will not deny this. It's a LOT easier to extract power from a turbo'd vehicle than an N/A vehicle. Just a piggy-back ECU will net huge power gains. However, I will never, ever, ever admit the MS3 is a better can than the SI when it comes to building up the car.

The MS3 weighs like ~600 lbs more than the SI. Not only that, but the SI (Being a civic) will ALWAYS have a better tuning crowd to follow it. The MS3 has a stock turbo and I have yet to see them running 10s or 11s (maybe they are, far too lazy to research it).


Now all I'm saying is this - the SI will always be a better car when you're willing to pour money into it. You really cannot even deny this.. look at a regular civic, and then a regular mazda. I think the 3 has a single turbo build you can ever get for it (no superchargers), and it nets little gains (how many honestly have 400 WHP like was posted in this thread)? Now look at a regular civic.. people are running 8s/9s/10s in hatches and whatnot. The civic is just the king of the import tuner world. The 06+ civics/si will follow this same trend.

I'm not trying to say the SI is a better car (I know that's how it's coming off.. and I'm biased since I own it). In fact, if someone asked me which car to buy, I would say without a doubt, get the MS3, UNLESS you're planning on dumping tons of money into this car to make it a 1/4 king and all that jazz.

Nicer interior, amazing torque (lack of torque SUCKS when for daily driving), similar price for a lot more power, plus an easy net of ~60ish hp for a grand just leads me to say the MS3 is a much better car for the price.

Whenever I think that I mighta made a bad decision getting the SI over the MS3, I think about this - The FIRST day I owned my SI, I took it out with my dad on some country back-roads to show him what it had. First thing I get slammed with is a ticket of 82 in a 55. Now I think of what would of happened if I had had the MS3 - I'd probably be in jail right now! Haha maybe not, but it certainly woulda been a much higher ticket, which just scares me

 

[SwampAss]

MS3 listed weight: 3163


http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=116868/pageId=102350



Civic Si listed weight: 2945

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Followup/articleId=119173/pageId=117802


200lbs difference. Adding turbo/intercooler/plumbing would bring that number closer.


Not saying one is better by any means. I like them both but for different reasons. Box stock, the MS3 had more of what I was looking for. A small percentage of the motoring public who buys either of these cars will go beyond bolt ons mods. I know some people will make truly fast cars out of either. For mortals like myself that have the mechanical ability of a drunken one armed monkey, rely on keeping things simple.

 

[Speed3girl]

Don't worry your mind will change in approx. 500 miles...lmao

BTW, not to bust your chops or anything how can I think if it is a fact? Just wondering...

me??

I just feel differently than you guys I guess. I mean I don't listen to a movie critic if they say a movie is horrible. That does not stop me from seeing it. I guess that is what I mean. Now I have not taken either to a road race. So I can not say for sure how they feel...but just daily driving. You know?

 

[SwampAss]

I just feel differently than you guys I guess. I mean I don't listen to a movie critic if they say a movie is horrible. That does not stop me from seeing it. I guess that is what I mean. Now I have not taken either to a road race. So I can not say for sure how they feel...but just daily driving. You know?

Right on. That's how I feel as well. I've driven cars and ridden motorcycles that the automotive press has put on pedestals for years only to walk away feeling less so. I've also driven cars and ridden motorcycles that don't get accolades and felt they were a lot more deserving of such.
What moto journalist can be 100% unbiased? What motor journalist drives the same way you or I do?
When the G60 Corrado came out back in 1989 (as a 1990 model) it was filleted by the automotive press. It was tauted as a huge blunder for VW to have come out with something so poorly designed. 158hp.
I thought it was AWESOME. Handled perfectly, drove well, and the power was great.

and for $250 more:

A compressor wheel, an higher pressure FPR, and an ECM plug in module and the car went to 190hp. This was almost 18 years ago!

 

[Speed3girl]

Right on. That's how I feel as well. I've driven cars and ridden motorcycles that the automotive press has put on pedestals for years only to walk away feeling less so. I've also driven cars and ridden motorcycles that don't get accolades and felt they were a lot more deserving of such.
What moto journalist can be 100% unbiased? What motor journalist drives the same way you or I do?
When the G60 Corrado came out back in 1989 (as a 1990 model) it was filleted by the automotive press. It was tauted as a huge blunder for VW to have come out with something so poorly designed. 158hp.
I thought it was AWESOME. Handled perfectly, drove well, and the power was great.

and for $250 more:

A compressor wheel, an higher pressure FPR, and an ECM plug in module and the car went to 190hp. This was almost 18 years ago!

Thanks. At least someone understand. Now you guys don't have to agree with me....but so far if and when I go to the track the Si would be the one I would grab first.

 

[knowledge007]

me??

I just feel differently than you guys I guess. I mean I don't listen to a movie critic if they say a movie is horrible. That does not stop me from seeing it. I guess that is what I mean. Now I have not taken either to a road race. So I can not say for sure how they feel...but just daily driving. You know?

Well I didn't mean to be harsh or anything. Don't get me wrong I think the SI are the only civics I think look sweet. As a matter of fact I saw a white one on the way home and that looked sweet in the rainy ass weather.

 

[Betelgeuse]

Thanks. At least someone understand. Now you guys don't have to agree with me....but so far if and when I go to the track the Si would be the one I would grab first.

I understand, lol. But now that you're selling your civic you have no choice but to take the ms3.(drive2)

 

[Betelgeuse]

This is why I love the new SI:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KS6NfIf7vg

Stock motor.. bad tires, 18 in heavy rims.. etc etc.

I'm not trying to knock the MS3.. but look! First turbo produced for this car, no tuning options.. NOTHING on the car built up really. Full interior in tact, seats, spare tire.. crappy ass tires (no DRs), 18 in rims.. And it's running 11s! Can you imagine drag radials, built up suspension, beefed up internals, etc.. This would be running 10s no problem, very low 10s with a tuning option ( kpro ftw?)

Stock for stock, the MS3 whips the SI's ass. I will not deny this. It's a LOT easier to extract power from a turbo'd vehicle than an N/A vehicle. Just a piggy-back ECU will net huge power gains. However, I will never, ever, ever admit the MS3 is a better can than the SI when it comes to building up the car.

The MS3 weighs like ~600 lbs more than the SI. Not only that, but the SI (Being a civic) will ALWAYS have a better tuning crowd to follow it. The MS3 has a stock turbo and I have yet to see them running 10s or 11s (maybe they are, far too lazy to research it).


Now all I'm saying is this - the SI will always be a better car when you're willing to pour money into it. You really cannot even deny this.. look at a regular civic, and then a regular mazda. I think the 3 has a single turbo build you can ever get for it (no superchargers), and it nets little gains (how many honestly have 400 WHP like was posted in this thread)? Now look at a regular civic.. people are running 8s/9s/10s in hatches and whatnot. The civic is just the king of the import tuner world. The 06+ civics/si will follow this same trend.

I'm not trying to say the SI is a better car (I know that's how it's coming off.. and I'm biased since I own it). In fact, if someone asked me which car to buy, I would say without a doubt, get the MS3, UNLESS you're planning on dumping tons of money into this car to make it a 1/4 king and all that jazz.

Nicer interior, amazing torque (lack of torque SUCKS when for daily driving), similar price for a lot more power, plus an easy net of ~60ish hp for a grand just leads me to say the MS3 is a much better car for the price.

Whenever I think that I mighta made a bad decision getting the SI over the MS3, I think about this - The FIRST day I owned my SI, I took it out with my dad on some country back-roads to show him what it had. First thing I get slammed with is a ticket of 82 in a 55. Now I think of what would of happened if I had had the MS3 - I'd probably be in jail right now! Haha maybe not, but it certainly woulda been a much higher ticket, which just scares me

I get what you're saying but with enough money you can make almost any car run 11s. IMO, if I wanted a car to build up for straight line performance, I'd probably start with old Vette or even a used GTO. FWD wouldn't even cross my mind.

Anyway, in the end all that matters is you're happy with your car.

Here's the hi boost page for the mazda 3:

http://www.hiboost.com/#


I do agree with you regarding the aftermarket. The Civic definately has a bigger tuner market.

 

[Speed3girl]

I understand, lol. But now that you're selling your civic you have no choice but to take the ms3.(drive2)

Yup. I would pic the Speed over the Si anyday....just the Si feels different to me. And I will miss the VTEC in that car.

 

[I vtec do you?]

Yup. I would pic the Speed over the Si anyday....just the Si feels different to me. And I will miss the VTEC in that car.

You told me in a PM you redlined the thing TWICE in the 4k+ miles you owned it. Now you're saying you miss VTEC. Considering VTEC is only the last ~2k of the RPMs, I severely doubt you shifted after only being in vtec for a second or less.

Sorry, but it's just impossible to NOT redline the SI repeatedly in 4k miles.. I've had mine for only 2200 so far and I've redlined it at least 100+ times. You just have to be smart with it and not abuse it while doing so.

 

[knowledge007]

Uh Oh...

 

[Speed3girl]

You told me in a PM you redlined the thing TWICE in the 4k+ miles you owned it. Now you're saying you miss VTEC. Considering VTEC is only the last ~2k of the RPMs, I severely doubt you shifted after only being in vtec for a second or less.

Sorry, but it's just impossible to NOT redline the SI repeatedly in 4k miles.. I've had mine for only 2200 so far and I've redlined it at least 100+ times. You just have to be smart with it and not abuse it while doing so.

Anyway. You hit vtec before redlining. But that is fine. I sold the car in 2 days. The chances of the car having issues from going to redline a couple times is highly unlikely.

When I said I "miss vtec" I said it because I sold the car. And when you think about it who in their right mind owns a nice car and does not have fun. So you think what you want. I treat my cars awesome.

And trust me it is "possible" to not redline. I am cheap and am not about to fill up my car quicker due to redlining it all the time. Also where i live and my work I have NO time to redline a car in the morning or at night. Since there is bumper to bumper all the time.

 

[iwannagofast]

I was at the Mazda dealership, waiting for my car to come in and the sales guy told me a lady just traded in a '07 Si for a speed3.

I'd say she made a smart move.
I test drove the Si awhile back and the visibility stinks because of the pillars are so far front... i kinda felt like i was driving from the back seats lol... if that makes any sense. I mean, the car looks nice and all.. but i prefer functionality (is that even the right wording? lol) over design. Mazda's done an awesome job (in my opinion) (when i popped the hood and looked around, i was amazed how they used the firewall as a strut brace.. frickin brilliant..)
oh yeah torque is another issue too....
and on top of that the damn thing cost just as much as a speed3....

just my 2cents...

 

[knowledge007]

Yes any honda is overrated...