What to buy? MS3 or Civic si

[MS3077]

When I had a 07 Civic SI sedan the 3rd gear issue really pissed me off and the dealer couldn’t do anything about it. It really sucked because other than the 3rd gear issue it was a fun little car. It could definitely use some more Hp/Tq but it wasn't exactly slow either, compared to a MS3 it’s slow but not to most everyday cars.

After about 5-6months of owning the SI I finally got sick and tired of the ****** 3rd gear thing and decided to look at other cars so it was either the GTI, WRX, or MS3. Needless to say the MS3 was by far the best deal and I’ve been really happy with it ever since! I’m at around 14,300 miles and no issues.

Included is a picture of my ex...
I-VTEC YO!

 

[Zala]

I realize to do not post much on this forum, so feel free to take my opinions lightly. I find the Civic SI to be a fun little machine to drive. I was almost just about to toss the money down for one until the Mazdaspeed 3 came out. To me, the Civic improved on everything the early 2000 model sport hatches attempted to achieve short of the SRT-4's power advantage. The Civic SI certainly still causes me to turn an eye for a look though.
Regarding the motor mount issues. In most cases, at least from the front wheel segment, it seems that they will be softer from stock due to NVH protocol. Unfortunately, very few people would probably jump at the chance to buy a car that rattles or vibrates at idle due to a stiff performance mount. We should all know by now that performance minded individuals are not the only ones that shell out money for performance cars. At the same time, I don't think the ratio of performance minded individuals to more naive individuals (with regards to the automotive subject) is that great in the grand scheme of things. Take this information for what you want, but I recall some SRT-4 owners complaining or motor mount issues as well as similar issues with my SVT focus. It may just be an overall issue with front wheel powered vehicles, when NVH plays a higher priority.
With regards to the 3rd gear transmission issues in the first run of the SI, I was slightly surprised and at the same time not so once I thought a little more about it. I don't recall Civic SI's in the past having such mechanical issues. I do vaguely recall however from visits to Acura forums back in the day, of transmission issues with several performance variants like the Type-S RSX and TL's. I don't know what to make of that there. Some cars will have issues in any model run and some won't. It's the nature of the consumer world. The SVT focus was known for flywheels/clutch combos failing due to an improper set up. I never had that problem, but I know another person who bought another SVT at my same dealership the same model year, had the problem and many dealer visits. The only issue I ever had was a loose heat shield at the catalytic converter that created a rattling noise and minor squeaking from the rear suspension when there are no load (people/luggage) on it. I've also have had no issues with my MS3 short of the recall cell from the shutter valve, so I would suppose I'm lucky again which was promptly corrected under warranty.
Lastly, I would like to provide an opinion on the interior differences I've noticed in both the 3 and the SI. At first glance, I thought the Civic was superior in interior fit and finish, but notice that the plastics used for the interior dash did not look as good as the 3 in some parts. With that in mind, I find the dash to be of better finish to be in the 3, while the center console seems of better fit in the Civic. To those that prefer the hideaway cup holders on the 3's console, they will be more pleased obviously by the 3. The Civic I saw did not have that, if I am mistaken in that respect. The gauge instruments on both cars are hit or miss with preference. I really like the Civic's digital gauges as they seem more in place with concept car applications and it's certainly refreshing to see in this car segment. The 3's interior gauges are also top quality in my opinion as well, but certainly more analog in appearance. What I'm really trying to get at is that you cannot make the same comparison between these 2 cars in interior finish than if you were to compare either car to a US model variant within the same car segment. This would would be an obvious plus for both of these cars.

I would hope my insight helps anyone trying to decide between these 2 vehicles.

 

[ihadacivicsi]

I had the Comptech short shifter and Skunk 2 racing knob. That helped a lot in getting in to 3rd gear. I heard that Amsoil MT fluid also fixed all of the issues with missed shifts to 3rd.

I'm not particularly fond of the Speed 3 shifter. I need a SS and a weighted knob. Soon.

from the honda forums. the only fix is to get synchros replaced from 08 models, but its hard to get the dealer to do that. They keep saying people are abusing it, so thats why there is that petition going around.

if i did get the civic the 08 seems to be ok so far.

I come from a honda/acura back ground also, i wanted to try something new.

ive test driven both and hands down the ms3 is way better performance car.

 

[MS3077]

Amsoil MT fluid only served as a temporary fix. The issue would come back after a month or two. The real issue is with the 3rd gear synchros, not the tranny fluid.

 

[emessthree]

My wife wants to get rid of her Matrix XRS 03. Far as i know it's a piece of crap car(deadhorse (so far about 3 grand in repairs). I asking all the Mazda folks in this forum if you think the mazdaspeed3 is a great purchase or the civic si? I understand that every car isn't perfect but want fellow members input on this, my ride is a mazda5 with some mods, so any input would be appreciate. zoomzoom(burnout)

I drove an 06 Civic Si for 2 years and just picked up an Ms3. As I said to all my friends telling them about my new car is this. The only thing the Honda Si has on the Ms3 is a better shifer/clutch combo, and slightly sharper refelexes, even though I am convinced the MS3 can carry more speed around corners, thats it. Every other aspect of the car the MS3 does it better. Power, cargo, brakes, torque, suspension - its just a overall better car, for me at least.

The Civic Si is a fun car to drive, but it needs to be revved to go anywhere fast, and the suspension is harsher hitting bumps than the Ms3.

That is my unbiased opinion from someone who drove/owned both. This is also coming from a honda guy for the past 10 years.

 

[emessthree]

If you're going to compare these two vehicles, do it stock for stock. If you want to start talking mods, the ms3 will win hands down. All I have is an intake and the car already feels different. With a tune and dp, even on the stock turbo, 300 whp should be easy.

And I'll argue with whomever said Honda makes the best 4-bangers. Sorry but torqueless motors don't appeal to me. I know I'm being blunt but I'd take my Disi turbo over any K-series anyday (just my opinion).

Remember, honda motors don't torqueless motors. I get the feeling reading these forums that people have a misconception that Honda motors are low of torque, when the reality is that they make small motors. ANY 2 liter N/A motor will be low on torque.

Also, as a Mazda owner, K series motors are absolutely insane if hooked up the right way. 300 + WHP stock of of K24 motors is being done now. Sick.

 

[rice ahoy]

I like the look of the Civic Si coupe but not the Sedan. Also test drove one but didn't like the 4th to 5th gear change. My previous car was a 2003 Civic Si and the MS3 just put a grin on my face because the amount of torque! The only complaint I have with my MS3 is the torque steer. If only it was RWD then I would have a bigger grin on my face. Previous to my 03 Civic Si I had a MR2 Spyder (Mid engine + RWD > all) but it lacked power and cargo room.

Lemme stop blabbing, but you need to test drive the two. Shop and compare! You can ask forums about which to chose but get your butt inside the two cars and compare. This is what I did and chose the MS3. Goodluck!

 

[PeterC]

Is the motor mount in the MS3 actually bad though? Aside from the recall, are the new ones failing? It seems like if you replace it with a "better" mount you get vibrations in the car for the sake of less wheel hop. For me personally, that is not a good trade-off.

 

[tiagotiago]

I also had both these cars on my shortlist.

My mom has a 99 Civic ex and that car has been bulletproof, and the dealership we go to has been good to us so I was seriously considering the SI.

But my heart was always with the MS3. It helped that over here in Mxico that the Civic SI Coupe is actually $1K USD more expensive than the speed3. The Honda dealership knocked off $3K USD off their price, but still, that didn't compensate the differences (power, leather, xenon, autowipers, the 2 extra doors, etc). A SI Sedan goes for $2K USD more than the MS3, and I didn't get any special offers from them.

I feel happy with my purchase. My dad advised I take the SI more seriously, but once he drove the speed, he hasn't done anything but praise the Mazda. When I'm careless, he'll just dissapear with it.

 

[Zala]

Is the motor mount in the MS3 actually bad though? Aside from the recall, are the new ones failing? It seems like if you replace it with a "better" mount you get vibrations in the car for the sake of less wheel hop. For me personally, that is not a good trade-off.

My car before this was an SVT Focus. It has a similar issue that I first discovered when gunning the throttle and shifting to second gear. I got a loud bang which was the engine hitting the firewall. That car put out on 170hp to the crank with gear much more fitted to a turbo'd car (1st gear went up to 40-45, 2nd to 65-70). I fixed that with a polyurethane motor mount upgrade. Coming to the MS3, I've remembered my lesson well with performance front-wheel vehicles and never shifted too quickly without giving the transmission to realigned for a split second extra. I can say the MS3, more than likely due to it's much higher power outputs, produces this issue even when shifting normally. I just swapping in the TRZ poly mount this weekend and noticed a dramatic improvement in normal shifting, aside from the much praised reduction in wheel hop by many in this forum. With that said, I would agree that the stock mount allows much more engine movement then I initially thought. There are many choices now available to choose your level of vibes/movement-reducing capabilities for your taste. Please also consider an additional trade-off, the MS3 engine system is much more powerful and not necessarily as smooth on power delivery when compared to the Si. When stiffening the motor mount on the MS3, a considerable comparison between the two cars would be more power = more vibes. That is assuming that the motor mount upgrade on the MS3 now brings shifting and wheel hop within more equal terms of the Si. As far as recalled mounts failing, you will want to do some research yourself rather than accepting a blanket or generalized statement from a forum member. One thing to consider is that the amount owners that have experienced failed motor mounts after being replaced (and reported on this site) are still a minute percentage, in comparison to the amount of MS3's manufactured per year. From my research, these reported failings have also ranged from heavy mods to even completely stock vehicles. On a final note, the "failing motor mount" recalled by mazda is NOT the mount people have been upgrading. So far, to my knowledge, there are no aftermarket mounts available to replace the motor mount that is currently being recalled (aka the side transmission mount).

I hope this information is of some use to you.

Thanks

 

[viper117630]

the fun factor?!

i'd rather drive my mazda 3i with manual transmission manual locks and windows then my dads 312hp 300m special!

LOL!

 

[///M Compact]

I looked at the Si before I bought my MS3, and in my opinion they are both very nice cars- it just depends on what YOU prefer. In my case I stupidly allowed all the media hype(Automobile, CD, R&T) about the MS3 convince me that I could live with FWD. Wrong. Purchase in haste, regret for a considerable time to come...

 

[viper117630]

Yeah, I dont really like the whole front wheel drive thing either but I do love my MS3. I am very satisfied with the car and I haven't second guessed my purchase. I think that all of the reviews that I have read are right on. I would have no complaints if it was a rear wheel or all wheel drive platform.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Yeah, I dont really like the whole front wheel drive thing either but I do love my MS3. I am very satisfied with the car and I haven't second guessed my purchase. I think that all of the reviews that I have read are right on. I would have no complaints if it was a rear wheel or all wheel drive platform.

It would be another EVO / STI (30-35k)

 

[FrequentFlyer]

The MS3 would have been awesome in a RWD platform. It's got a long enough wheelbase for it. Only thing is, they would have had to create a tranny tunnel down the center of the car.

 

[micronesia]

Woulda sucked for people where it snows a fair bit.

 

[Donas64]

I looked at the Si before I bought my MS3, and in my opinion they are both very nice cars- it just depends on what YOU prefer. In my case I stupidly allowed all the media hype(Automobile, CD, R&T) about the MS3 convince me that I could live with FWD. Wrong. Purchase in haste, regret for a considerable time to come...

Why were you shopping for an SI or MS3 if you're so averse to FWD. Owning an Alpina B7 I take it you're well versed in the merits of different drive platforms. Why didn't you wait for a 1 series or something similar.

 

[///M Compact]

Yeah, I dont really like the whole front wheel drive thing either but I do love my MS3. I am very satisfied with the car and I haven't second guessed my purchase. I think that all of the reviews that I have read are right on. I would have no complaints if it was a rear wheel or all wheel drive platform.

I agree that the MS3 is a terrific car as well as an amazing performance value, but I've owned the thing for just 12 months and I'm already sick and tired of it. FWIW, I'm not the type of person who trades for a new car every 2-3 years. I still have the 318ti Club Sport that I bought new in November 1995 and I've owned my 1999 Wrangler since May 2002- and I have no plans to sell either one. The MS3 simply isn't a good fit for me...