What to buy? MS3 or Civic si

[Ferdball]

Well, if you start a new thread and there is already an existing one, you get flamed. So, if you add your comments to an existing thread that is old for some members, you get flamed.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Case in point. Decide that you're going to buy a new LCD TV, then go over to avsforum.com, and find that there is a thread about your new TV that is 251 pages long!!! Forget it. I'm just buying the one on sale. Dammit!

 

[Falconx84]

I'm not really flaming..... I just like killing zombies, lol

 

[AutoXRacer]

Case in point. Decide that you're going to buy a new LCD TV, then go over to avsforum.com, and find that there is a thread about your new TV that is 251 pages long!!! Forget it. I'm just buying the one on sale. Dammit!

(lol) Same thing happened to me, except for mine was a DVD player!! (lol2)

 

[MPC12347]

the si got nothing on the ms3

 

[builthatch]

the si got nothing on the ms3

i disagree with that type of blanket statement. i own both cars, an '07 Si 4dr and an '08 ms3 GT.

the Si gets better insurance rates, better gas mileage and costs significantly less, esp w/o the navigation. it's also alot easier to drive (read: safer) for alot of people, IE your average female. I feel the Si has a slight edge in handling out of the box, too.

All in all, i like the ms3 better because it's more powerful, has better paint and has alot more options, but there are a few things about the Si i like as well (obviously lol)

 

[Betelgeuse]

i disagree with that type of blanket statement. i own both cars, an '07 Si 4dr and an '08 ms3 GT.

the Si gets better insurance rates, better gas mileage and costs significantly less, esp w/o the navigation. it's also alot easier to drive (read: safer) for alot of people, IE your average female. I feel the Si has a slight edge in handling out of the box, too.

All in all, i like the ms3 better because it's more powerful, has better paint and has alot more options, but there are a few things about the Si i like as well (obviously lol)

Well I don't like blanket statements myself but I have to disagree with a couple of your points. For one, the SI is not significantly cheaper from what I've seen. I just priced one out on carsdirect for around $21,700 and that's without nav. And carsdirect is usually pretty conservative to begin with. Maybe you got a super deal. I walked out of the dealer paying 22,800 or so for my ms3 and I know others who've paid less with enough haggling. Also the insurance on my car is almost the same as a regular 3. And from the quotes I've seen posted by other members, it's pretty damn reasonable overall considering the car's performance.

As for the SI being safer for the average female, well that would depend on their driving habits a whole lot now would it? Both cars can be safe when driven that way and they both can be death traps although the ms3 does out brake the SI by a fair margin.

Gas mileage is just not a primary concern when looking for a performance car.
However, if driven like a grandma, the ms3 can give surprisingly good mileage. It may not be as good as the SI but that's a very reasonable trade off considering the engine's output.

I can't comment on the handling but I remember the ms3 taking top spot in recent comparo against the SI / GTI. It is heavier though and on really tight corners that might come into play so I can't agree or disagree here.

 

[SwampAss]

The si and ms3 are not performance cars. They compact cars that happen to perform well for the money.

The SI's MSRP is in line with the MS3, however the SI can be had on the cheap. I could have saved about $4000 buying an SI over the sport MS3 with no frills. I cross shopped them both. After my test drive through some fairly aggressive driving, I found the Si to feel more planted and lively. It "felt" much lighter. I disliked the the stacked tach/speedo on the SI and was torque drunk after the MS3.

 

[Betelgeuse]

The si and ms3 are not performance cars.

You really can't class the SI with the ms3 when it comes to performance. The ms3 IS a performance car that just happens to be FWD (which I do agree is it's biggest handicap). The SI is an ok performer

The SI's MSRP is in line with the MS3, however the SI can be had on the cheap. I could have saved about $4000 buying an SI over the sport MS3 with no frills. I cross shopped them both.

So basically you're saying you could've had an SI for around $18,000? Well if that's the case, I stand corrected.

After my test drive through some fairly aggressive driving, I found the Si to feel more planted and lively. It "felt" much lighter. I disliked the the stacked tach/speedo on the SI and was torque drunk after the MS3.

Well it IS lighter for one so it should feel that way. Also it's probably less nose heavy. I need to test drive one just for the heck of it.

 

[SwampAss]

My no frills MS3 sold for 24,000 OTD. I bought it in Dec of 06. The Si was a tick over 20k OTD.

 

[builthatch]

Well I don't like blanket statements myself but I have to disagree with a couple of your points. For one, the SI is not significantly cheaper from what I've seen. I just priced one out on carsdirect for around $21,700 and that's without nav. And carsdirect is usually pretty conservative to begin with. Maybe you got a super deal. I walked out of the dealer paying 22,800 or so for my ms3 and I know others who've paid less with enough haggling. Also the insurance on my car is almost the same as a regular 3. And from the quotes I've seen posted by other members, it's pretty damn reasonable overall considering the car's performance.

As for the SI being safer for the average female, well that would depend on their driving habits a whole lot now would it? Both cars can be safe when driven that way and they both can be death traps although the ms3 does out brake the SI by a fair margin.

Gas mileage is just not a primary concern when looking for a performance car.
However, if driven like a grandma, the ms3 can give surprisingly good mileage. It may not be as good as the SI but that's a very reasonable trade off considering the engine's output.

I can't comment on the handling but I remember the ms3 taking top spot in recent comparo against the SI / GTI. It is heavier though and on really tight corners that might come into play so I can't agree or disagree here.

why does this happen on every forum where anyone compares the two cars? i got on h-t and bring up the high points of the ms3 vs. the Si, and they argue to the point where i unsubscribe to the thread. i have both cars and people argue with me about stuff that in my case can't be argued. i am not speaking for everyone, i'm speaking about my experiences and how they can potentially apply to others. i'd say less than 1% of the people with either car have both, so take what i say as sage advice rooted in hard experience.

anyway,

Si can be had for less. you can get it for under 20 grand. they are not in nearly the same demand vs. supply that the ms3 is. most of the time ms3's (sport) will be closer to 22.5. that is over a 10% difference.

The MS3 insurance costs significantly more for me vs. the Si. 28 year old male and 29 year old female, married, no points or history of anything negative. at one point i had a 97 civic with a modification addendum, a 95 tribute, an 00 bimmer and the 07 si all on the same policy. insurance was about 2k a year for all of them, in NJ under geico with the max coverages possible. my insurance went up about 200 dollars per 6 months after deleting ALL of those cars, except the Si, and adding the ms3. if the policy had two si's on it, and no ms3, it would have been almost 400 a year cheaper.

gas mileage is not of primary concern, but it's of concern for many people who drive their car often, especially when they have to use premium. the si gets 7-8 more mpg over the course of a tank vs. my ms3, easily. it's a fact of life that more air to make more power requires more fuel, so the ms3 in most conditions will consume alot more fuel than the Si, probably all other than some super light vacuum conditions. super light driving doesn't count because none of us drive like that. if we did we'd not be on this forum.

consider all that, over the course of a just a year, and the ms3 is alot more expensive to operate. the math is staggering, actually lol.

driving habits aren't what i was thinking of when i was thinking about ease of driving between the two cars. when you step on the ms3 in first and second (sometimes third, esp if modded), it wants to break loose and/or torque steer. fwd w/ lots of tq will do that. in the rain it's even worse. for me, none of those are a problem, but for the average female, such as my wife, or, the average driver in general, that is something that can be frightening or atleast bothersome when merging, passing or doing anything that requires acceleration. the Si is a gradual and very smooth linear acceleration with a small jump at the switchover, no surprises. the ms3 is the opposite. sudden, almost instant and massive with an exponential increase.

and, about the handling..i'm telling you that for day to day driving with spirited sessions at time, the Si, stock, outhandles the MS3, stock. I can't speak about modified because the only one that is modded is the ms3. reviews and numbers are nice, but throw my experience into the mix when considering both.

it sounds to me like you want me to admit that the ms3 is the perfect car for everyone and the si can't touch it in any capacity, but it's simply not true. the ms3 is great, i love it for me and i'd recommend no other car for someone like me, but it's not the best choice for everyone. neither is the Si, but they both have their high points and down sides.

 

[SwampAss]

Solid

 

[ihadacivicsi]

My 06 Civic Si v My 08 Speed3 GT

I bought a 2006 Civic Si in Jan 2006 and had it for 2 years and about 19,000 miles. It was recently totalled when another driver hit me while I was going through a green light. I decided to buy an MS3. I have had the MS3 less than a week and am still in the break in period.

The Si is a lot of fun to drive. I had a 99 Si before the 06, and I remember driving an early (non-Si) Civic back in 1979. In a Honda, the interaction between car and driver is excellent. You feel like you are in a race car because of the way the car handles, the position of the shifter, the cripness of the shifts, the high revving Vtec, etc. On the other hand, Hondas have poor low-end torque. Sure the Si has 197 hp, but only 140 ft-lbs of torque. You don't really get much until you get to around 4500 rpm. The car redlines at 7800 rpm so driving is an exercise in keeping the engine revving high. It is a lot of fun going through the gears. However, the engine is highly tuned and its tough eeking out more power from the Si engine, even compared to say the RSX-S which had an older version of the same engine. Air intake, exhaust, Hondata ECU add more hp, but you can a bigger increase in hp on the Speed3 just by adding an air intake!

The Speed3 is a beast. Reminds me of my Eagle Talon AWD. The torque is right there. Virtually no turbo lag. The car pulls very cleanly and I have to say that Mazda has done a phenom job of controlling torque steer. The handling is pretty good as well, though I think the Si is slightly better, possibly because you sit lower etc. However, I haven't really pushed the limits as I did with my Si but I have been very pleased with the handling so far.

Apart from the fact that the Speed3 makes 30% more hp and double the torque compared to the Si, the standard features on the Speed3 are far superior. Go to the various Civic forums and read what people are doing to their cars. Door sills, foglights, HID, climate control etc. are all included with the Speed3 and are extra or not available with the Si. When you take the turbo into account, the Speed3 is an incredible bargain. I had looked into adding the Greddy turbo to my Si, and it would have been $5-6k. So to outfit an Si comparably to the factory Speed3, you would easily have to spend $6-8k for turbo, HID, etc.

The Speed3 is an incredible bargain. I did briefly consider getting another Si, but decided to get the Speed3 instead. It is a totally different driving experience from the Si, and I am loving it! The Si competes more with the Scion tC with TRD supercharger while the Speed3 competes more with the VW GTI and Subaru Wrx.

 

[Betelgeuse]

why does this happen on every forum where

it sounds to me like you want me to admit that the ms3 is the perfect car for everyone and the si can't touch it in any capacity, but it's simply not true. the ms3 is great, i love it for me and i'd recommend no other car for someone like me, but it's not the best choice for everyone. neither is the Si, but they both have their high points and down sides.

I don't want you to admit anything so if my post made you feel that way, I apologize. However you made some statements (and still continue to) that I don't agree with so I made my counterpoints and I'll stand by them. I have to ill feelings towards you personally. And I totally understand that the SI will be more than sufficient for some people but the title of this thread begs for a comparison between the two. And when there's a comparison, the high points and low points of each car will be brought to the table and yes, a lot of it will be opinionated. Welcome to the world of forums.

If everyone agreed with everyone else, it'll get really boring fast. With that said, I believe for the price, you get a WHOLE LOT MORE CAR with the ms3 than the SI so the meager price difference is moot imo. Also if gas mileage is that much of an issue for you then maybe you bought the wrong car. The SI gives up a lot of performance for the mileage increase. That's the trade off.

 

[builthatch]

Also if gas mileage is that much of an issue for you then maybe you bought the wrong car.

let me fix that for you---

Also if gas mileage is that much of an issue for a prospective buyer, then maybe one should consider the Si over the ms3.

noone has to sell me on the ms3, i've sold myself on it. if i was talking about MY feelings here for ME, i'd not have entered this thread because i know the ms3 is the supreme car for me vs. the si, mainly because i believe a car should be supremely powerful w/ tq, have lots of room/access but with a small footprint and be relatively affordable. i am highlighting points to consider for a prospective buyer who would scan this thread, points they won't see on a test drive or by talking to a salesman...or even by reading reviews in mags or on the 'net.

back to gas mileage-

21.X mpg is fine for me, because i drive my ms3 less than 100 miles a week on average, sometimes way less. it doesn't bother me because it's stretched out over SUCH a long time span.

if i was driving 300 miles a week, like many people, it would be a little more of a concern coupled with the other expenses that come with owning the car. i did the math, and that person, with a similar insurance like mine and proportionate price difference, would save over 1600 dollars a year driving the Si. 5 years, you save over 8 grand!

thus is the luxury of having two cars. one for going fast all the time, wasting gas, spending more money and modifying, and one to keep stock, that's for driving anywhere/everywhere with moderate gas mileage yet is quick enough to tackle most passing and merging with ease. of course you lose out totally in the expenditure department, but with two people you need two cars, and if you must have two, why not have sport models, right?

oh, *unsubscribed*, my work is done here, lol.

 

[MS3077]

My car before my 2008 speed 3 GT was a 2007 Honda civic si. Bottom line, unless you're concerned with gas mileage it's a no brainier folks. The Speed 3 rapes it in every aspect of performance and that includes handling as well. You got to rev the piss out of the si to get any real power which gets old after about 3 months (for me anyway) and the lack of tq is frustrating! I remember driving my Civic si over to the Mazda dealership only to test drive the Speed 3... That night I was a owner of a speed 3 after a very long test drive.

 

[Betelgeuse]

let me fix that for you---



noone has to sell me on the ms3, i've sold myself on it. if i was talking about MY feelings here for ME, i'd not have entered this thread because i know the ms3 is the supreme car for me vs. the si, mainly because i believe a car should be supremely powerful w/ tq, have lots of room/access but with a small footprint and be relatively affordable. i am highlighting points to consider for a prospective buyer who would scan this thread, points they won't see on a test drive or by talking to a salesman...or even by reading reviews in mags or on the 'net.

back to gas mileage-

21.X mpg is fine for me, because i drive my ms3 less than 100 miles a week on average, sometimes way less. it doesn't bother me because it's stretched out over SUCH a long time span.

if i was driving 300 miles a week, like many people, it would be a little more of a concern coupled with the other expenses that come with owning the car. i did the math, and that person, with a similar insurance like mine and proportionate price difference, would save over 1600 dollars a year driving the Si. 5 years, you save over 8 grand!

thus is the luxury of having two cars. one for going fast all the time, wasting gas, spending more money and modifying, and one to keep stock, that's for driving anywhere/everywhere with moderate gas mileage yet is quick enough to tackle most passing and merging with ease. of course you lose out totally in the expenditure department, but with two people you need two cars, and if you must have two, why not have sport models, right?

oh, *unsubscribed*, my work is done here, lol.

Fair enough, from that perspective I can agree......somewhat

Well I'm one of those that drive a lot 300-500 miles a week I'm lucky though as the mileage hasn't been a bother. Don't get me wrong, I'm not happy dumping $44-60 or so a week into it but it's the price I'm prepared to pay for the performance and my heavy foot .

 

[Rainforests]

The si and ms3 are not performance cars. They compact cars that happen to perform well for the money.

The SI's MSRP is in line with the MS3, however the SI can be had on the cheap. I could have saved about $4000 buying an SI over the sport MS3 with no frills. I cross shopped them both. After my test drive through some fairly aggressive driving, I found the Si to feel more planted and lively. It "felt" much lighter. I disliked the the stacked tach/speedo on the SI and was torque drunk after the MS3.

+1

Also I believe SI is a pretty neat looking car too. However my personal preference is a hatch for its utility. To me a hatch simply looks sportier and purposeful.

 

[bast525]

I have an 07 MS3 GT, and I bought my wife an 07 Si coupe. I drive her car every now and then, and its definitely a lot of fun. But if I had to choose one to drive every day, it would definitely be the MS. Considering how close they are in cost, the MS kills the Si in just about every way. Except some interior things... seat material, nicer stereo... body style I guess looks a little better depending on the angle. 3rd gear grinds a lot on the Si which seems to be very common.

but yeah, overall... MS hands down

 

[Ben Nast]

I am in the same boat and can not decide. I just sold a Corvette (01) and we already own a 2006 Civic.
I like the Civic a lot! Style, shape, dash, fit and finish, etc. I am waiting for the dealer to get in a Red MS3 before I decide. I will not pay MSRP and he may not sell it to me for less so in effect my decision may be made for me. Of course the Mazda is a nice ride with more power but it also costs more. I can get the 4 door Si out the door for just a hair over 21K. The only way my dealer orders MS3's are with the GT package so they MSRP for almost 25k. The power arguement is almost mute at this point because we can always spend more money to get more power in a stock vehicle. If you want power for a low price buy a GT Mustang.
I hate the exterior shape of the MS3 but if the dealer meets my price I will go that route, if not, across the street I go to order the 08 Si. Both are nice cars. Power goes to the MS3 but I would have to give the fun factor and fuel economy to the Si.

I test drove an 08 stang gt before I got my ms3 and the stock gearing in the stang made it feel like a sluggish turd. It seemed more like a v6, very dissapointing. Its unbelievable that it runs in the 13's. I did drive an 06 with the better gearing and that car felt more believable. The stang does have great potential but gets crap mpg's and is impractical if you care about that stuff. As far as the si civic, performance wise I wouldnt put it in the same class as the ms3. The si produced a whopping 134 peak torque and 180 horse on the dyno from Autombile mag. A more comparable honda (performance wise) to the ms3 would be the S2000. The vette you got rid of has more street potential than any of these cars. I know not a civic, but my wife has an 07 v6 Accord that is pretty fun to drive but gets boring after a while. I actually look forward to driving my ms3 and it never gets boring.

 

[MelloSpeed]

Both cars are awesome. I simply chose the Speed 3 b/c of attractive dealer incentives in Canada. Otherwise, I would be riding in the SI right about now. Anyone would look great sitting in the drivers seat of either one. This thread is biased to the max.