Water/Methanol

jeesley

Member
:
2008 Mazdaspeed 3 Black Mica
Sorry if all my question asking in the WI thread is getting old but... I DONT CARE! No one else seems to be talking much lol! I was just curious as to what you guys think of running a water/meth injection on a Mazdaspeed 3... or w/e you drive. Pros/Cons, Safety issues, etc.

Im thinking about doing it but I would like to read some peoples thoughts from around the area.

*thread moved*
 
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pros: great safety addition, if you have KR on meth I'd be amazed.

con: if you tune for it and your run out, you're in big trouble.
 
PM boost3 (James) and ask him about it. I know he ran it on his speed 3 and while at EECMM last year doing 100+ mph he ran out and 08cosmic3 (Scott) got a piece of his block lodged in his hood. If your ever down on the Cherahola Skyway and see a big oil slick stain, chances are, its James'..
 
PM boost3 (James) and ask him about it. I know he ran it on his speed 3 and while at EECMM last year doing 100+ mph he ran out and 08cosmic3 (Scott) got a piece of his block lodged in his hood. If your ever down on the Cherahola Skyway and see a big oil slick stain, chances are, its James'..

LOL hate to laugh... but that sucks!!
 
yeah it sucked pretty big. his car didn't even make it to the show. not to mention he was marooned in TN till Monday waiting for a tow company to open and tow him back to NJ.
 
cant really sum it up better than this... and for a daily drive/non race car its somthing I would probably never think about doing.. Above 500whp with a fwd car theres so many other things you can do that would be more beneficial than meth..$.01

Water Injection:

Water injection is a method for cooling the combustion chambers of engines by adding water to the incoming fuel-air mixture, allowing for greater compression ratios and largely eliminating the problem of engine knocking. This effectively increases the octane rating of the fuel, meaning that performance gains can be obtained when used in conjunction with a supercharger or turbocharger, altered spark ignition timing, and other modifications.

The initial injection of water cools the fuel-air mixture somewhat, which may allow for more mixture to enter the cylinder. But the greater effect comes later during combustion when the water takes in significant amounts of heat energy as it converts from liquid to gas (steam), increasing piston pressure (torque) and reducing the peak temperature with its resultant NOx formation as well as the amount of energy absorbed into the cylinder walls. The duration of combustion is said to be longer.

An interesting side effect that has been reported by some is that water injection effectively "steam cleans" the engine interior, resulting in less carbon residue buildup. Glowing hot carbon deposits are a known cause of knocking.

Fuel economy can be improved with water injection, although the effect on most engines with no other modification, (getting your ECU tuned), appears to be rather limited or even negligible in some cases.

Control over the water injection is important. It needs to be injected only when the engine is heavily loaded and the throttle is wide open; as with other systems which need to monitor engine load, this can be determined by manifold vacuum, which is low when the engine is loaded and high when it is unloaded; however, provision must be made for starting, when the manifold vacuum is also low but water injection is undesirable.

* Reports of more rapid corrosion of the steel and cast iron components of engines to which water injection has been added suggest that more frequent oil changes, particularly when the engine does not experience sustained high temperature operation to evaporate any water from the oil, are prudent.

* Many water injection systems use a mixture of water and alcohol (usually 50/50), partly because the alcohol is combustible, while water is not; in addition, the alcohol serves as an antifreeze for the water.


Methanol & Water Injection:

The water injection section applies here as well, with the following info added in:

Methanol, also known as methyl alcohol, wood alcohol or wood spirits, is a chemical compound with chemical formula CH3OH. It is the simplest alcohol, and is a light, volatile, colorless, flammable, poisonous liquid with a distinctive odor that is somewhat milder and sweeter than ethanol (ethyl alcohol).

Methanol is a high octane fuel (113 octane*) that is extremely resistant to detonation. When using methanol injection, it is advised to mix with distilled water being that under-hood temperatures can turn methanol into steam being that methanol boils at 148.46F (64.7C) - this in turn can cause your car to not inject methanol.

Methanol & water injection is also an effective means of cooling the charge air. Methanol is the preferred alcohol due to its elemental properties (being that it's miscible), and is normally mixed with water to prevent evaporation. Methanol is typically injected before the throttle body.

This both cools the combustion process but adds additional high octane fuel to the fuel air mix raising the effective octane to levels high enough to push knock limited performance to new limits.

Methanol, unlike nitrous oxide or forced induction itself, doesn't add more oxygen to the charge, but by its low evaporation point changes from a liquid to a gas as its introduced into the air charge.

The evaporation process uses the heat from the intake charge to complete the phase change. The alcohol is also a fuel in the charge which will cause a rich condition if used in excess. Due to the lower intake temperatures and denser air charge more power is exerted from the engine.


"Extra" science information:

* Water and methanol are miscible in all proportions. (Miscible is the chemistry term that refers to the property of various substances, particularly liquids, that allows them to be mixed together and form a single homogeneous phase. Substances are said to be immiscible if they cannot be mixed together, for example, oil and water.)

* One of the drawbacks of methanol as a fuel is its corrosivity to some metals, including aluminum. It will eventually totally dissolve aluminum.

* Methanol is not the same as denatured alcohol. Denatured alcohol is ethanol containing a percentage of methanol (to make it unsafe/useless for human consumption but still useful for industrial processes.
 
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Wow thanks... quite helpful all! Meth/Water sounded pretty cool and safe but leaning towards doing some different things instead.
 
I have installed meth/water injection on a few speed 6/3's for protege garage. it works out well as long as you do not use it all of the time. if you are able to have two tunes for the car you wont have to depend on it all of the time. if you are not able to have 2 tunes then just use a smaller injector and just disconnect it when you are not at the track. the way that I see it if you don't use it all of the time the problems that can happen will take a long time to happen and by that time you may not have the car any more or have rebuilt the engine. if you want to get more info on what it will do for you give ken at protege garage a call or just send him a pm.
 

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