SCCA Auto-X Rules: Read This First, Then Ask Questions

[livelyjay]

Got another question, this time about seats:

STS rules state the front seats may be replaced, but the seat must weigh 15+ lbs and must be full upholstered. Now I am looking at the Corbeau seats and the Clubman, Forza, and FX1 are not upholstered on the backs of the seats.

Does the rule mean just the fronts of the seats, or the entire seat needs to be upholstered?

 

[aMaff]

You need a new rule book

It's now 25lbs with mounting hardware.

Also, just the seating surface.

EDIT: Actually, the clubman and forza are fully upholstered. I've recently owned (and own) both.

 

[livelyjay]

You need a new rule book

It's now 25lbs with mounting hardware.

Also, just the seating surface.

EDIT: Actually, the clubman and forza are fully upholstered. I've recently owned (and own) both.

Is that a 2007 rule? In the 2006 Guide Book it says 15 pounds not including mounting hardware. Well you answered the question about upholstery, now I gotta find a seat that qualifies. If it is indeed 25 pounds with mounting hardware, I doubt the Clubman and Forza will qualify because there's no way mounting hardware is going to weigh 9+ pounds.

 

[aMaff]

The forza does.

And yes, it's a 2007 rule. Hence the "new rulebook" thing. It changed for this season.

EDIT: What're you doing looking at 2006 rules anyway?

 

[livelyjay]

The forza does.

And yes, it's a 2007 rule. Hence the "new rulebook" thing. It changed for this season.

EDIT: What're you doing looking at 2006 rules anyway?

It's online and free What can I say, I'm a cheap-ass.

By the time I am ready to buy seat(s) the rule will probably change again any ways. But it was good to get some understanding of the wording used.

 

[aMaff]

the 2007 regs are online too...for free... They keep updated versions in PDFs on the SCCA website.

 

[livelyjay]

the 2007 regs are online too...for free... They keep updated versions in PDFs on the SCCA website.

Damn, how thick am I. I went to the moutons site and they linked right to the 2006 book. I wonder if work would mind me printing out at least section 13-15, not like they will find out, I mean I work at Xerox .

 

[Foolish]

Random-ass theoretical question about this from the SM/SM2 rules:

D. Drivetrain and related components (induction, ignition, fuel
systems, etc.) are unrestricted except for the following limitations:
1. Engine block must be a production unit manufactured and
badged the same as the original standard or optional engine
for that model. Badges that exist as marketing aliases for the
manufacturer will be recognized as equivalents. Swaps
involving makes related only at a corporate level are not
recognized as equivalents. Models produced as a joint
venture between manufacturers may utilize any engine from
any partner in the joint venture, provided that an engine from
the desired manufacturer was a factory option in that
particular model (e.g. Eagle Talon available originally with
either a Mitsubishi or Chrysler engine, may use any motor
from Chrysler or Mitsubishi). This allows engine blocks
manufactured as production units for sale in other countries
such as Japan or Germany.

Would it be class-legal to swap a motorcycle engine into an SM car, as long as it was the same manufacturer? Say, a 122HP BMW 1200 boxer twin into an old 3-series, or a 108 HP, 125 LB/Ft Goldwing 1800 Boxer 6 into a CRX?

I know the horsepower wouldn't be much more, but the amount of weight you'd shave would be fantastic! So, all practical considerations aside, would it be SM legal?

 

[aMaff]

don't see why not. So long as a honda engine went into a honda, etc. That's about the only manufacturer I could see that working in. Except uh...suzuki lol. The rule doesn't state it has to be an automobile engine, just that the block must be made by the same company.

 

[Foolish]

Honda, Suzuki, BMW. That's about all I could think of just now.

The nice part about doing it with a BMW is that they make a 1.2L boxer twin that's good for 122 HP! So, you're looking at a very lightweight motor that keeps all of it's weight down low, and makes only 12 less HP than the I-4 in the 1991 318!

+12 HP VS. -(lots of engine weight) sounds like a decent trade-off to me!

 

[apexlater]

You'd still only be about 350hp away from what would be needed.

Yamaha made/makes the 2zz motor found in the Celica GTS, Elise, XRS models. They make snow mobile engines and a couple of 100+ hp bike motors.

 

[Foolish]

You'd still only be about 350hp away from what would be needed.

To compete in SM, you mean? Bummer.

Yamaha made/makes the 2zz motor found in the Celica GTS, Elise, XRS models. They make snow mobile engines and a couple of 100+ hp bike motors.

But are they branded as Yamaha engines?

They also made the V6 and V8 in the Taurus SHO. One of those in an Elise would be pretty crazy!

 

[khaosman]

What are the rules against taking two of said motorcycle engines and melding them into one?

 

[Lt. Dan]

Honda, Suzuki, BMW. That's about all I could think of just now.

The nice part about doing it with a BMW is that they make a 1.2L boxer twin that's good for 122 HP! So, you're looking at a very lightweight motor that keeps all of it's weight down low, and makes only 12 less HP than the I-4 in the 1991 318!

+12 HP VS. -(lots of engine weight) sounds like a decent trade-off to me!

While I don't see anything saying it would be illegal, I think it may be a little difficult to fit a boxer four between those frame rails....

 

[Foolish]

It's actually only a boxer two, and I have no idea if it could be made to fit. I was mostly just curious. I was thinking about the WCM Ultralight, a Lotus 7-type car that can be had with a Miata engine, an S2K engine, or a hyabusa engine. With the Hyabusa motor, it's 20 HP or so less than with the Miata engine, but it's 5-600 lbs lighter! That got me to thinking about swaps for SM.

 

[Lt. Dan]

It's actually only a boxer two, and I have no idea if it could be made to fit. I was mostly just curious. I was thinking about the WCM Ultralight, a Lotus 7-type car that can be had with a Miata engine, an S2K engine, or a hyabusa engine. With the Hyabusa motor, it's 20 HP or so less than with the Miata engine, but it's 5-600 lbs lighter! That got me to thinking about swaps for SM.

Doh!!! And I actually KNEW that too.... lol...

Dan

 

[Foolish]

My other thought was to turbo the 'cycle engine, so the HP was closer to or more than that of the original car. There's something wildly appealing to me about the idea of melding an S2000 with a wrecked Goldwing and some snails and building a 1.8 liter, flat-6 twin turbo S-Gold-1800 with >250HP and weighing 500 lbs less than the stock S2K! Even if it couldn't compete in SM, it would be a very cool project!

Edit: So, rather than ***** up this thread any further with my crazy dreams, to sum up: it's not specifically illegal, so it looks legal, but it would probably be worth a call/letter/email to someone at the SCCA national office to be sure! It's a nice dream, though.

Further Edit: I just took another look at the WCM website. They no longer offer the car with Miata or Hyabusa engines, they've gone all S2K! Further the only info I could find on the site about the models they used to offer was an article in the "press" section of the page that mentioned that the S2K-engined version was only 200 pounds heavier than the Hyabusa model, so the advantages of cycle-engines are looking less pronunced than I was thinking.

 

[Kosh]

Is manual launch control allowed to be installed under any class? Didn't see it on the first page.

 

[aMaff]

what do you mean by 'manual'?

You can have launch control in ST* and up (generally speaking) so long as it fits in the ECU rules (fits in the stock housing, etc)

 

[Kosh]

I don't know what I am talking about...is it allowed for me to add aftermarket launch control I guess what I should have posted.