Is Mazda pulling a fast one on MSP owners?

low_psi · Nov 18, 2006

Reading for those looking to understand Torsen diff operation:
http://zhome.com/ZCMnL/tech/Torsen/Torsen.htm

terbow · Nov 18, 2006

i skimmed throught the pics, ill read it in a few, definately sappreciate it, but all the pics of torsen difs ive seen dont have springs. so do i have a torsen or no? this is all so confusing to me haaha

low_psi said:
Reading for those looking to understand Torsen diff operation:
http://zhome.com/ZCMnL/tech/Torsen/Torsen.htm

Focus · Nov 18, 2006

terbow said:
i skimmed throught the pics, ill read it in a few, definately sappreciate it, but all the pics of torsen difs ive seen dont have springs. so do i have a torsen or no? this is all so confusing to me haaha

I guess I didn't make it clear enough:

YES !

LOL !!!

Focus · Nov 18, 2006

Here let me try to help people understand better...

There are 3 Main types of LSDs.

1. Clutch Type
2. Viscous Coupling (Fluid)
3. Torque Sensing

I think that is pretty much self explanatory...

There are no clutches and certainly no fluids in an MSP LSD, therefore ...

[Begin Rant]

But you know what, no matter what I say and how many times I say it, people don't listen... You go on praising Ken ( not a personal attck Ken ) but when the facts are brought to you, you totally ignore them... I guess you HAVE to hear it from Ken ?

[End Rant]

terbow · Nov 18, 2006

well you did say, " from what i gather" lol

i just wanted to be sure. im allowed

Focus said:
I guess I didn't make it clear enough:

YES !

LOL !!!

Focus · Nov 18, 2006

terbow said:
well you did say, " from what i gather" lol

i just wanted to be sure. im allowed

Definately allowed, it just that I had a discussion with Ken on the phone since the beginning of this thread. Basically , I find it frustrating and I want to clear up all of this. I certainly don't want people running around and starting rumors about the diff in the MSP.

God knows we have enough problems to worry about with this car, and don't need stuff that is not true going around.

terbow · Nov 18, 2006

i know u did, i actually talked to ken to yesterday.

i thought we had a clutch one, and the updated one was the non clutch type which is why it didnt grip as well. thats why i was asking.

Focus said:
Definately allowed, it just that I had a discussion with Ken on the phone since the beginning of this thread. Basically , I find it frustrating and I want to clear up all of this. I certainly don't want people running around and starting rumors about the diff in the MSP.

God knows we have enough problems to worry about with this car, and don't need stuff that is not true going around.

Focus · Nov 18, 2006

terbow said:
i know u did, i actually talked to ken to yesterday.

i thought we had a clutch one, and the updated one was the non clutch type which is why it didnt grip as well. thats why i was asking.

That's what I was told as well, seing as the springs are there. But there is no mention of it from Mazda. And the cutaway view I posted is from Mazda's Manual. You clearly see the springs, and they describe it as a torsen.

I am no expert in LSD construction, but if I had to guess, those are helper springs that they removed for the revision.

Anyways, I am off to the Monster TruckShow tonight, see you, ummm, read you guys later !

terbow · Nov 18, 2006

cool, yea im no expert either. in fact i dont even care i was just curious. i dont drive the car hard enough to even warrant a lsd lol

low_psi · Nov 18, 2006

I've only found a few pictures of the 03 LSD but the spring appears to only preload the gears, allowing for smoother engagement. Removing it, the revised versions, should have little to no effect on the TBR.

tallrd · Nov 19, 2006

Focus, why did you come out of the gates so defensive about this?! It's like you are defending yourself against some kind of personal attack.

The reality is that this was a completely justifyable concern given the circumstances, and I know for a fact (which the photos prove) that the 03 diff I had removed and the one I got are very different.

Focus said:
There are no clutches...in an MSP LSD...

What's this photo of then (removed from my 03 [not 03.5])?

I don't build transmissions for a living, but it looks a hellofalot like a clutch pack assembly to me (huh)

JDM Sam · Nov 19, 2006

I posted a description on how the original spring LSD is supposed to work here.

I posted it way back in the LSD failure registry
here:
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1133758&postcount=14

Reposted it in a new thread here.
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123652688

low_psi · Nov 20, 2006

Tallard- can you post a picture of the underside of the plate the springs sit on? I want to see how it mates with the gear.

SergMSP · Nov 20, 2006

jmv said:
well its good to hear that its NOT an open diff, however i would be concerned as to whether this piece works better or worse than our current parts. This has me thinking maybe i should go to the trouble of pulling out my lsd and having it welded...

do you guys think $500 is a good price to have a shop have my car for 2 days to take apart my tranny, weld my lsd (03 msp), then put it back together? so i dont have to worry about it breaking on me? dont mean to change the subject a little but this thread really got me to find a shop to take care of this for me so i could stop thinking my car is a ticking time bomb...

Kansei · Nov 20, 2006

That doesn't sound like a bad price. That's the price I've seen people quote for clutch install which seems like a slightly simpler job.

MrDiggler · Nov 20, 2006

SergMSP said:
do you guys think $500 is a good price to have a shop have my car for 2 days to take apart my tranny, weld my lsd (03 msp), then put it back together? so i dont have to worry about it breaking on me? dont mean to change the subject a little but this thread really got me to find a shop to take care of this for me so i could stop thinking my car is a ticking time bomb...

Seems very fair as long as the work is good.

Captain KRM P5 · Nov 20, 2006

i sit in line for a Wii and this is what happens in this thread? sheesh

SergMSP · Nov 20, 2006

welding lsd

MrDiggler said:
Seems very fair as long as the work is good.

Yea the shop has been recommended to me by a few msp owners, so i know mine isnt the first one the shop has worked on, TBK performance in miami. Looks like im gonna be doing this next,next weekend...i was thinking might as well get a new clutch while the tranny is out, im at 42k miles, anyone recommend anything else while the tranny is out?

Focus · Nov 20, 2006

Captain KRM P5 said:
i sit in line for a Wii and this is what happens in this thread? sheesh

A day in the life ...

KisorPerformanc · Nov 20, 2006

SergMSP said:
Yea the shop has been recommended to me by a few msp owners, so i know mine isnt the first one the shop has worked on, TBK performance in miami. Looks like im gonna be doing this next,next weekend...i was thinking might as well get a new clutch while the tranny is out, im at 42k miles, anyone recommend anything else while the tranny is out?

if you are planning on making substantial power with this car then third and fifth gear upgrade is recommended, i think we purchased uors from protege garage

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/KisorPerformance/timscamera209.jpg
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/KisorPerformance/timscamera210.jpg

thats third gear---- or whats left of it

Is Mazda pulling a fast one on MSP owners?

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