Fuel Pump

[Kooldino]

Ok, So our stock protege pump is weak for boost.
I've heard of FM putting a 2nd pump in...

But why not just replace our stock pump with a GOOD single pump?

What's the best route here?

 

[YP5 Toronto]

From what I have read and from personal experience, swapping out the stock pump is messy (dangerous) and not necassary. Adding a 2nd fuel pump (piggy back) is more than a sufficient route.

 

[Keith@FP]

That's the way we look at it as well. In-tank fuel pumps are a pain.

Keith

 

[mr orange]

what the hell are u guys talking about? intank pumps are easy to replace, just make sure your low on gas, pull out the back seat and its right there, it take 10 min to get it out.

 

[chdesign]

This isn't a honda man the fuel tank on the protege is a little more complicated than that....trust me i've looked into it to run braided lines from the tank.

 

[YP5 Toronto]

Mr.orange....before you start shouting at the members of this club....understand who you are yelling at. Many of the members are experienced and know what they are talking about. Besides, I believe that you have been posting numerous quesitons about your new car.

THIS IS NOT A FLAME.....just some advice.

 

[blynzoo]

This isn't a honda man the fuel tank on the protege is a little more complicated than that....trust me i've looked into it to run braided lines from the tank.

Was it you that looked? I think traveler may have looked as well, I cant remember who. I will do a search and see what I come up with.
It would not be anywhere near impossible, but you ARE going to spill some fuel doing it (low or not), which always makes me a bit nervous. However I must agree, for the sake of simplicity, one pump just seems cleaner. That is an aesthetic/personal preference only, unless we are pulling huge boost a piggy pump is copacetic.

 

[chdesign]

I'm not saying its impossible its possible definatly anything is I'm just sayin its alot more complicated than a Hondas Fuel tank...alot of nooks and crannys in there along with blindspots gaurds and all sorts of crap..I looked at it and then said screw this.

 

[1sty]

The biggest problem I have discovered is out stock pumps were produce witha range from anything from 65-95 PSI so you never know where yours will max out. Mine does at 79 PSI.

 

[blynzoo]

The biggest problem I have discovered is out stock pumps were produce witha range from anything from 65-95 PSI so you never know where yours will max out. Mine does at 79 PSI.

Excellent point. But with the CPU controlling it anyway, you still have the same WOT throttle problem under boost as before. As Keith has noted, you could throw on three additional sets of injectors, double the pump capacity, that CPU is still trying for 12:1.
Damn those genius Japanese engineers. Why did they have to make such a smart car?

 

[1sty]

Actualy this car would be awsome if those genious engineers let the settings of the ECU be adjusted but everything is locked in.

Its not WOT thats a problem, it was partial throatle when the car was pulling fuel.

 

[blynzoo]

Actualy this car would be awsome if those genious engineers let the settings of the ECU be adjusted but everything is locked in.

Its not WOT thats a problem, it was partial throatle when the car was pulling fuel.

Hmm. I must keep getting mixed up. I thought that anywhere less than WOT the car uses a loop that takes into account all the feedback from the motor, etc, but that at WOT it runs straight programming. I could have it backwards. Normally cars "fine tune" ignition and fuel delivery during normal acceleration and run a fixed equation at WOT.

And LOL, yeah I agree. it would be nice if they had left it alone.
And indeed they did. It's just that they know what all the 0's and 1's mean in the programming, we dont. The ECU is flashable, and is open programming ("tamperable" for lack of a better term). In fact, one of the fixes to the "engine rattle while cold" problem involves flashing the ECU (in addition to changing a part in some VIN #s). Most of the programming is changeable, that's what makes computer controlled cars serviceable, and is indeed one advantage of such technology in the first place.
e.g. if Mazda finds an ignition curve in the future that provides for increased fuel economy, say some miracle system that gives us all 45 mpg, they could call us in for a flash/remap and we'd be good to go.

But of course that doesnt help us. If we could find someone that just understood Mazda's binary, we'd be set (by set I mean we'd only have a year of translation and recoding left )

 

[1sty]

From what I understood the car when in that looping code which isn't related to open throttle alone but to RPM range aswell, I think, The cars O2 sensors are being listened to and if they see a 12:1 ratio they pull fuel. But when you hit 4800RPM at WOT then it stops listening to the O2 sensor and acts as if it did get a 14:1 and it leaves the extra fual alone.

 

[1sty]

The crappy part is it is only flashable, or the entire program has to be down loaded. No adjustments are allowed although i have heard that they soon will be.

 

[Keith@FP]

Simply having the ability to reprogram won't solve your problems - then you have to reprogram it PROPERLY. That's harder than it sounds.

The stock ECU switches between closed and open loop operation based on load. Basically, it's a combination of throttle position and rev range but measured by the MAS.

The stock pump can provide sufficient pressure for a while, but it starts to fail if you push it too hard for too long. It will likely provide high flow for years, it's high pressure that's the killer.

Keith

 

[blynzoo]

Simply having the ability to reprogram won't solve your problems - then you have to reprogram it PROPERLY. That's harder than it sounds.

Oh, I know, believe me. I come from a programming family, which is why I closed with....

"But of course that doesnt help us. If we could find someone that just understood Mazda's binary, we'd be set (by set I mean we'd only have a year of translation and recoding left)."

Threw a little sarcasm in there.

 

[1sty]

What no argh, me matty!

 

[herarety]

Excellent point. But with the CPU controlling it anyway, you still have the same WOT throttle problem under boost as before. As Keith has noted, you could throw on three additional sets of injectors, double the pump capacity, that CPU is still trying for 12:1.
Damn those genius Japanese engineers. Why did they have to make such a smart car?

Isn't 12:1 ideal for a FI car?

From what I understood the car when in that looping code which isn't related to open throttle alone but to RPM range aswell, I think, The cars O2 sensors are being listened to and if they see a 12:1 ratio they pull fuel. But when you hit 4800RPM at WOT then it stops listening to the O2 sensor and acts as if it did get a 14:1 and it leaves the extra fual alone.

Judging from this, maybe you (blynzoo) meant 14:1?
Just wanting that cleared up, correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[1sty]

the car tries for 14:1, the turbo wants 14:1 and won't get it until the PCM stops listening to the O2 sensor

 

[Keith@FP]

The car tries for 14.7:1 - and it gets it. The turbo wants 12:1 or even richer.

blynzoo, I caught the sarcasm. I was just making sure everyone understood. We spend most of the day helping people program the Link ECUs in their Miatas...

Keith