first car audio planning

[emptystrings]

This is sort of shopping list of questions. Any educated responses are much appreciated. Thanks!

1. Speaker location: I want to put the rounds (6" or 6.5") in the front doors and the longs (5x7" or 6x8") in the rear doors. Has anybody done this or know if this configuration will fly with the use of some adapter mounts?

2. Trunk floor: From what I've seen, most amps are about 2.5" high, so I'm thinking about raising part or all of my trunk floor up 3". Most people on the boards seem to be using MDF for the new floor. What goes underneath the MDF to raise it? (2b. I have access to very limited amount of tools. What would be best way for me to get my MDF shaped in my situation?)

3. Screw locations: are there any places in the trunk I should NOT try to put any screw holes?

4. Amp heat: Should I worry about heat dissipation? I've seen installs where the amp is enclosed behind plexi, so I assume it's not much of an issue, but I wanted to see what people had to say about it.

5. Factory sub: any way to get more sound out of its 100W? I don't want to lose any more trunk space, and I don't feel the need to get a whole lot more bass. Just thought I'd ask and see if people have tried anything with it.

Thanks again guys. Some of the installs on this board are light out nice. Pretty inspirational if you ask me.

 

[ELEmental59437]

1. Why? Thats seems like more trouble than its worth...

2. MDF can be used longways to raise the false floor. Buy a jig saw.

3. Dont drill into the gas tank... I wouldn't drill anywhere into the floor of the trunk area

4. Use fans if there is no circulation where the amp is mounted unless it doesnt get too hot (lower power)

5. Not really.. more bass = more wattage = bigger sub = bigger box.

Do you have a MSP or a P5? You should clarify...

 

[servoeyes]

In my sig, if you wait for the audio mods to slide by it'll get to the trunk install. It's a link to pics of the false floor I did in my car.

To answer the rest of your questions:

1. that size stuff won't fit in the rear doors...just mount them in the rear deck if you can, or get 6 1/2 or 6" coaxes for the rear doors.

2. answered above with link to pics

3. In the sedan I don't think the gas tank is under the trunk...but just to be sure, lay down underneath and see what's there. You don't really want to go into the muffler's heat sheild either.

4. I've got a fan keeping air moving for mine...but if you mount things properly even a fan might be overkill

5. Sounds like the MSP...you're actually getting 60-70W in reality...it's an 8 ohm sub. You can look into a proper subwoofer like the JL 8w3v2d2 which can be wired to present the MSP's amp with a 4 ohm load. Of course...the amp is inverted, so I would try to come up with a way to either a) flip it or b) cool it.

 

[parks853]

This is sort of shopping list of questions. Any educated responses are much appreciated. Thanks!

1. Speaker location: I want to put the rounds (6" or 6.5") in the front doors and the longs (5x7" or 6x8") in the rear doors. Has anybody done this or know if this configuration will fly with the use of some adapter mounts?

2. Trunk floor: From what I've seen, most amps are about 2.5" high, so I'm thinking about raising part or all of my trunk floor up 3". Most people on the boards seem to be using MDF for the new floor. What goes underneath the MDF to raise it? (2b. I have access to very limited amount of tools. What would be best way for me to get my MDF shaped in my situation?)

3. Screw locations: are there any places in the trunk I should NOT try to put any screw holes?

4. Amp heat: Should I worry about heat dissipation? I've seen installs where the amp is enclosed behind plexi, so I assume it's not much of an issue, but I wanted to see what people had to say about it.

5. Factory sub: any way to get more sound out of its 100W? I don't want to lose any more trunk space, and I don't feel the need to get a whole lot more bass. Just thought I'd ask and see if people have tried anything with it.

Thanks again guys. Some of the installs on this board are light out nice. Pretty inspirational if you ask me.

1. the 6/5's will fit in teh front doors.. dont worry about rear speareks not needed.. if you use them just stay stock...

2. if you make a 3" floor that dont leave much height for a sub box.. you bought have to do it like servo did.. check the pic in his sig.. nice job...

3. you should not need to screw to the trunk floor

4. I like to let mine cool.. like people said.. use fans if you have to.. comuputer ones are cheap and work good.

5. ther are alot of threads about using the amp and box.. the amp sucks and the box sucks.. but you can get a 4 ohm sub that is 8in and sound better by fliping the amp over to help it cool.

 

[1sty]

This is sort of shopping list of questions. Any educated responses are much appreciated. Thanks!

1. Speaker location: I want to put the rounds (6" or 6.5") in the front doors and the longs (5x7" or 6x8") in the rear doors. Has anybody done this or know if this configuration will fly with the use of some adapter mounts?

2. Trunk floor: From what I've seen, most amps are about 2.5" high, so I'm thinking about raising part or all of my trunk floor up 3". Most people on the boards seem to be using MDF for the new floor. What goes underneath the MDF to raise it? (2b. I have access to very limited amount of tools. What would be best way for me to get my MDF shaped in my situation?)

3. Screw locations: are there any places in the trunk I should NOT try to put any screw holes?

4. Amp heat: Should I worry about heat dissipation? I've seen installs where the amp is enclosed behind plexi, so I assume it's not much of an issue, but I wanted to see what people had to say about it.

5. Factory sub: any way to get more sound out of its 100W? I don't want to lose any more trunk space, and I don't feel the need to get a whole lot more bass. Just thought I'd ask and see if people have tried anything with it.

Thanks again guys. Some of the installs on this board are light out nice. Pretty inspirational if you ask me.

1. Totaly pointless and overly time consuming.

2. Typicly 1/2 MDF is put on the floor where the amps will be, then the raising blocks, then the cover boards. Don't overlook the tire well as potential amp realestate. For this task a Jig saw and a steady hand will do. I would buy a Boshe jig saw, they are considered the best. They run about $180. Get some MDF blades too.

3. Any where there is something under the car. This includes in the hump of the tire well and not really anywhere else in the trunnk as the gas tanks under the rear seat. HOWEVER!!! Always check before you drill. Also consider nutcerts.

4.So long as the amp isn't totaly enclosed, it will be ok (depending on brand and load). If your worried about it, make a logo cut out on the plexi or something. Or some fans under the plexi.

5. Not really, your not gonna get much more out of it. Especialy since its an 8 ohm sub. yur better off replacing it with a 4 ohm driver.

 

[chuyler1]

1. Put 6.5"s in the front and rear. 6x8s sound poor.

2. As other people said, you can make shimms to lift up the mdf. Just make sure that everything is bolted down otherwise it will rattle and drive you crazy.

3. Haven't gotten this far with the P5 yet...just look under the car before you drill and make sure the gas tank isn't there. Its usualy best to use existing bolt locations.

4. If your amp is completely isolated from flowing air, it will overheat in the summer. People who put their amps behind plexi usually have a ventilation system (basically a fan blowing air from behind). My opinion on plexi is that it can be expensive and it scratches easily. It is better to make a grill or cover out of wood or perforated metal. That way you can still use your trunk and not worry about scratching the plexi.

5. Replacing the factory sub with a small 8" aftermarket sub powered by a better amp will give you exactly what you're looking for. It won't take up much space either. If you buy a prefab box it will have terminals on it so you can easily disconnect the box when you need the extra space.

 

[emptystrings]

Thanks for the responses. I'm driving a P5, but I don't think that changes any of the answers.

1. I have a friend who put the smaller speakers in front and the bigger ones in the rear, and it makes for a nice sound stage (personal preference, of course). I just wanted to see if it was more trouble than it's worth, which seems to be the case.

2. The cutting stuff doesn't seem too bad. servoeyes - Thanks for the pics; worth a thousand words.

3. To the folks who said I should screw anything to the trunk floor, how do you keep the trunk floor from rattling like crazy back there unless you attach it?

 

[parks853]

I used the rear seats to make a very tight fit.. when I close the seats up the mdf is touching them and makes it not able to move. plus the mdf is very heavy.. it dont move much..

 

[sndsgood]

if all the speakers are in back u won't have a soundstage, all the sound should be in front of u not behind you. whens the last time u went to a concert and faced yourself so the musicans were behind you?


i'll go against the grain and say u should bolt your box and amps to something secure and solid, get into an accident and that nice heavy sub box could end up taking your head off. and at the least it will make things more difficult for theieves.

 

[servoeyes]

if all the speakers are in back u won't have a soundstage, all the sound should be in front of u not behind you. whens the last time u went to a concert and faced yourself so the musicans were behind you?


i'll go against the grain and say u should bolt your box and amps to something secure and solid, get into an accident and that nice heavy sub box could end up taking your head off. and at the least it will make things more difficult for theieves.

Good call! I have my amps screwed into a piece of MDF that's bolted into the trunk floor. if you search through my older threads you can find a lot of info...eveyone on here helped me through what was my first system...it's still incomplete, but it's sounding better everytime I fix little things. Also...if you fit the false floor right and build the proper structure, your sub box ain't going no where! Mine certainly hasn't.

As for the speakers behind you...the majority of sound, like sndsgood wrote, should come from in front of you. Imagine the rears as the remnant of the initial soundwave as it passed you by. Granted...that's for music, mainly...but even in 5.1 systems, the only time you hear sound from those speakers is for (a) environmental effects, (b) directional effects, (c) doppler/motion effects, and (d) dramatic music effects.

 

[emptystrings]

Here's what I've heard about speaker placement. You want to have your higher frequencies in front since lower frequencies travel better distances. This way, you get better definition in your sound since you don't lose the high and mid-highs on the way to your ear. Smaller speakers tend to have better highs, bigger speakers tend to have more lows. It's not so much that I want more sound coming from the back, it's that it would be nice to have better definition from the front. I heard this from someone I know with 30+ years in the industry, so who am I to argue that? But in the end, if it can't be done in the car, or it's too much of a pain, it's not going to happen. It's still a nice theory if correct.

 

[parks853]

Here's what I've heard about speaker placement. You want to have your higher frequencies in front since lower frequencies travel better distances. This way, you get better definition in your sound since you don't lose the high and mid-highs on the way to your ear. Smaller speakers tend to have better highs, bigger speakers tend to have more lows. It's not so much that I want more sound coming from the back, it's that it would be nice to have better definition from the front. I heard this from someone I know with 30+ years in the industry, so who am I to argue that? But in the end, if it can't be done in the car, or it's too much of a pain, it's not going to happen. It's still a nice theory if correct.

lower freqs travel a better distance??? hmm is that why everyone keeps buying the higher freq cordless phones.. so they can go a shorter distance.. NO.. the higher frequenices travel farther.. the wave length of lower freqs is longer.. cause it is slower.. a low freq that comes from the sub will be nondirectional.. that is why you can get by with them in the trunk. if you just have speakers up front it sounds better. it keeps the sound stage up front.. sounds like someone is sitting on the dash singing to ya.. instead of them behind you talking.. the sound is mainly recoreded from the front. liek if you were at a concert. it is hard to get use to the sound only coming from the front.. and dont sound that great if the sound stage sucks.. but trust me with a good sound stage then it soudns alot better coming from the front.

 

[emptystrings]

Umm... we're talking about AUDIBLE frequencies here. Electronic/radio waves (transverse) and sound waves (longitudinal) are two different animals. If you'd like to have a discussion about wave theory, that's for another thread (or read this website I found on waves: http://www.howe.k12.ok.us/~jimaskew/pwave.htm).

Anyway, at this juncture, it's a moot point. Unless some has something to add to the discussion, I think we're done here. Thanks for all the responses. I do appreciate it. Now comes the hard part - actually doing something. I'll try to be a good member and post some pics when/if I even finish.

 

[1sty]

Here's what I've heard about speaker placement. You want to have your higher frequencies in front since lower frequencies travel better distances. This way, you get better definition in your sound since you don't lose the high and mid-highs on the way to your ear. Smaller speakers tend to have better highs, bigger speakers tend to have more lows. It's not so much that I want more sound coming from the back, it's that it would be nice to have better definition from the front. I heard this from someone I know with 30+ years in the industry, so who am I to argue that? But in the end, if it can't be done in the car, or it's too much of a pain, it's not going to happen. It's still a nice theory if correct.

This is true of bass waves can be heard louder further but its becoming misleading here. You want as much of the audio signal infront of you as you can get. Even a sub if possible. The reason subs can and are often in the back of a car is becuase they play a range of sound not directional to the human ears. Any other sounds will be directional. Having all the midbass behind you will get really anoying, atleast to me. Think about it. You'll here a snar drum in front of you and a bass drum behind you. Paradise City will drive you NUTS!

Its about how the human ear precieves a sounds location that creates "imaging" and a "stage". After all the ideal is to have a stage extend outside of the car and for it to be eye level. Imaging can be done to the point of anyone being able to pick out an instruments location on the stage. Basicly the idea is to trick the ear, big speakers in the rear playing directional frequencies will really screw that up.

 

[sndsgood]

any frequency above 75hz is localizable to the ear, meaning if your subs or any other speaker behind you is playing say 100hz and down, u can close your eyes and easily hear that the bass is behind you. the real reason why subs go in the trunk???? because most people don't have the knowledge or skills to mount a pair of 12" subs in the front of the car. thats the real reason of why subs are in back, it has nothing to do with the placement of sound. there are several pros who have gone so far to mount subs up front, and these cars are the more accurate of cars that compete. you are right that higher frequencies travel shorter distances and lower frequencies travel farther, but that doesnt mean youlle lose any definition an your sound. look at any home system. the subs are right there with the mids and highs. your friend with 30+ years experience should get on here and post, i'd love to learn why he thinks the way he does. you want as much as that music in front of u as u can or it will never sound accurate. no way possible for it. if your midbass is in back it's going to sound like you stuck the drummer in your trunk. not to mention it will pull bass guitars and low piano notes to the back of the car. so your going to have a car where the imaging is constantly moving from front to back front to back.