Cracked cylinder head (2018 CX-5)

Has there been any reports of 21's or 22's with the problem? I'm getting ready to unload our 19 GTR and will probably buy another CX-5 unless this problem is still out there.
Not like the cracked cylinder head on the 2.5L NA with CD, the cracked cylinder head on the 2.5T could be caused by different reasons (deformation of the exhaust manifold and residual stress in the cylinder head) at different area, and usually it takes time and higher mileage to expose the symptom. The 2.5T came out in 2016 on the CX-9, not until 5 years later we started to see the reports concerning the problem. The TSB was issued on 10/15/2021, any redesigned head may take even longer time to develop the crack.

DESCRIPTION
Some vehicles may have coolant leaks at the cylinder head around the exhaust manifold (as shown below). There may be cracks at the stud bolt hole (1) or at the outside of the exhaust manifold (2).

Cracks may be caused by:
• Deformation of the exhaust manifold during usage causing unexpected force to certain areas of the cylinder head.
• Residual stress generated during production in the cylinder head material may be greater than expected. The
external force from the exhaust system when driving over bumps may cause unexpected force to certain areas of the cylinder head.
To eliminate this concern, the design of the exhaust manifold gasket and the cylinder head has been modified to reduce the force on the cylinder head.



Honestly since Mazda has issued a TSB on cracked cylinder head for the 2.5T, but we haven’t seen one for the 2.5L NA with CD, I believe the severity has to be more on the 2.5T than the 2.5L NA with CD.
 
for 2022 too early too tell. I guess also 2022 models were not that many due to the shortages. At the same time Mazda released 2023 models earlier in q4. We can hope that 2022- are fixed.

I guess that makes my '22 with CD a test case for this forum.

So far no issues but only 13,000km (8000 miles) travelled so far (purchased new last April). We'll see what happens during the powertrain warranty period. If it happens to me during the warranty, or if a high enough number of '22+ models experience it by the time my warranty expires, I would trade it in at the end of the warranty period.
 
Having been in a vehicle where the engine siezed on a beltway, I believe in the doomsday scenarios and am looking at replacements this weekend. Was gonna wait the warranty out but the safety of my family is important. This thread helped me decide to start vehicle shopping.
Since you mentioned being happy with previous Fords I thought I'd mention that Sarasota Ford advertised $3,204 off MSRP for a 2022 Escape SE and $6,214 off MSRP for a 2022 Edge SE in yesterday's newspaper. I have no idea if these offers are bait and switch of if the vehicles are any d*mn good but I suppose it might be possible to get a deal on a 2022 closeout. Just trying to help before something goes terribly wrong.
 
Not like the cracked cylinder head on the 2.5L NA with CD, the cracked cylinder head on the 2.5T could be caused by different reasons (deformation of the exhaust manifold and residual stress in the cylinder head) at different area, and usually it takes time and higher mileage to expose the symptom. The 2.5T came out in 2016 on the CX-9, not until 5 years later we started to see the reports concerning the problem. The TSB was issued on 10/15/2021, any redesigned head may take even longer time to develop the crack.

DESCRIPTION
Some vehicles may have coolant leaks at the cylinder head around the exhaust manifold (as shown below). There may be cracks at the stud bolt hole (1) or at the outside of the exhaust manifold (2).

Cracks may be caused by:
• Deformation of the exhaust manifold during usage causing unexpected force to certain areas of the cylinder head.
• Residual stress generated during production in the cylinder head material may be greater than expected. The
external force from the exhaust system when driving over bumps may cause unexpected force to certain areas of the cylinder head.
To eliminate this concern, the design of the exhaust manifold gasket and the cylinder head has been modified to reduce the force on the cylinder head.



Honestly since Mazda has issued a TSB on cracked cylinder head for the 2.5T, but we haven’t seen one for the 2.5L NA with CD, I believe the severity has to be more on the 2.5T than the 2.5L NA with CD.
Regarding this:


It seems to me the 31 reports in that poll has not changed in quite some time, maybe since I started posting here 2 1/2 years ago. That number in the 30's sticks in my mind going way back. That would be hard to account for given that thread is third from the top under Powertrain other than the fact that what people say on the interwebs and webinets is not reliable. I would not be surprised if somebody decided to hammer the "yes" vote repeatedly.
 
Since you mentioned being happy with previous Fords I thought I'd mention that Sarasota Ford advertised $3,204 off MSRP for a 2022 Escape SE and $6,214 off MSRP for a 2022 Edge SE in yesterday's newspaper. I have no idea if these offers are bait and switch of if the vehicles are any d*mn good but I suppose it might be possible to get a deal on a 2022 closeout. Just trying to help before something goes terribly wrong.
Wasn't/isn't the Ford Edge one of the models with the engine that has the water pump INTERNALLY (behind the timing cover IIRC) that can leak and destroy the bearings etc.
 
Wasn't/isn't the Ford Edge one of the models with the engine that has the water pump INTERNALLY (behind the timing cover IIRC) that can leak and destroy the bearings etc.
I have no idea. But if you look hard enough you can find some dire failing with any vehicle.
 
I have no idea. But if you look hard enough you can find some dire failing with any vehicle.
Failings, true, but not always as dire as this. But it's best to be aware of a major failing such as this before purchase. I remember Dodge (2.7 liter?) having engine failure from internal water pump leakage. It was a bonehead move then and is still a bonehead move now for Ford.
 
Wasn't/isn't the Ford Edge one of the models with the engine that has the water pump INTERNALLY (behind the timing cover IIRC) that can leak and destroy the bearings etc.
Yep. The 3.5 v6 (around 2010-2017) not just Edge but the Explorer. Mazda Cx7 too. That was worse than what we see with the CX5s. Been there done that. If you dont catch it on time the engine needed major rebuilt. I had about 11 recalls for my Explorer for various issues in 6yrs.....11.
It did reach out about 140k and got rid of it.
My vw had about 7 or 8.
So Mazda is much better I think. Had only 2 on my 2018 (not counting the chain cover leaks which is still PITA to fully fix) but the engine is still doing well.
 
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Yep. The 3.5 v6 (around 2010-2017) not just Edge but the Explorer. Mazda Cx7 too.
The Ford 3.5L / 3.7L V6 was used by 2007 ~ 2015 Mazda gen-1 CX-9. Gen-1 CX-9 had been chosen as the SUV of the Year by Motor Trend and Top-10 SUVs by Car and Driver many times in these years. The water pump on that Ford V6 and front transfer case also from Ford are 2 major problems on gen-1 CX-9 which eventually were exposed after few years. I almost bought a 2012 CX-9 AWD due to those excellent reviews at the time. Luckily I didn’t get one for other reasons mainly from poor fuel economy numbers.

The location of the water pump on that Ford 3.5L / 3.7L V6 is the worst you can imagine. It’s driven by the timing chain, but behind the timing chain mechanism like an internal water pump. Unfortunately water pump can’t last forever, it’ll leak eventually. Once it leaks, the coolant gets into the oil pan mixing with oil which causes major engine internal damage. The location also makes the water pump replacement a nightmare.

The 2007 ~ 2012 Mazda CX-7 uses 2.3L turbo I4 and the model was replaced by our CX-5.
 
@cz5gt and yrwei52. Thanks guys for the history and elaboration. I thought Ford was still making an engine with internal water pump or at least in very recent years.
 
The Ford 3.5L / 3.7L V6 was used by 2007 ~ 2015 Mazda gen-1 CX-9. Gen-1 CX-9 had been chosen as the SUV of the Year by Motor Trend and Top-10 SUVs by Car and Driver many times in these years. The water pump on that Ford V6 and front transfer case also from Ford are 2 major problems on gen-1 CX-9 which eventually were exposed after few years. I almost bought a 2012 CX-9 AWD due to those excellent reviews at the time. Luckily I didn’t get one for other reasons mainly from poor fuel economy numbers.

The location of the water pump on that Ford 3.5L / 3.7L V6 is the worst you can imagine. It’s driven by the timing chain, but behind the timing chain mechanism like an internal water pump. Unfortunately water pump can’t last forever, it’ll leak eventually. Once it leaks, the coolant gets into the oil pan mixing with oil which causes major engine internal damage. The location also makes the water pump replacement a nightmare.

The 2007 ~ 2012 Mazda CX-7 uses 2.3L turbo I4 and the model was replaced by our CX-5.
Yes it was a very poor design on that 3.5 V6.

However that doesnt tell the whole story.

All my water pumps on my Fords and Toyota's lasted until the Ford vehicles were over 14 years/200,000 miles(and still never replaced) and Toyota over 10 year/150,000 miles( replaced sometime after that).
***EDIT: my vehicles were not the ford 3.5 L V6 engines with internal water pump failures.***

However all my vehicles were maintained with proper coolant flushes.

I feel a vehicle should last at least 10 years/150,000 mile before major problems. Anything more is a bonus.

Was the ford 3.5 L V6 water pump placement a horrible idea...yes it was...hard & expensive to replace and easy to ruin the engine...

Were the pumps defective...maybe, maybe not, that will play out in court...

But imo, this is partly owner neglect...as most of these issues appear to be on vehicles which are either high mileage(over 150,000 miles) or older(2007-2010) vehicles, barely driven with medium miles(80,000 to 110,000).

Imo, these owners weren't servicing there vehicles as they should which partly(maybe not completely) contributed to premature failure.

Either running them into high mileage without flushing the coolant or letting the old coolant sit in a vehicle for 10 or more years.

An acquaintance had the ford 3.5 V6 fail after 180,000 miles and 15 years old. Helped them get a junkyard engine last year to run it a few more years. So they had the pump failure at high mileage and old age...imo got more than the useful life out of it.

Yes it was a piss-poor design but it would be interesting to see how many owners with properly maintained (regular oil changes and coolant flushes) V6 and how long they lasted before water pump failure.

At some point a vehicle has reached its service life...
Courts and jury will need determine what that useful life is(how many miles and years)

Will be interesting to see the service records that are submitted during the legal proceedings and maybe also find out how many failed early.
 
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The critical factors are how many and when.
The class action lawsuit was brought by the few(around 8 people) of which some had the fail under 100,000 with 1 occuring around 65,000 miles. Somewhere in the pleadings, plaintiffs claimed the failings were happening early and that there were alot more of them.

However, Ford answers stated that majority 80 % happened after 135,000 miles with most after 150,000 miles. It may set precedent for what is considered the useful life of a vehicle. Once that is determined, then it will fall on whether they knew (like Toyota did) and when they knew but yet still kept manufacturing them.

At some point, they would know based on the NHTSA complaints and/or water pumps ordered.

Anyone that bought a vehicle after Ford knew the engines water pumps were defective would then need to prove it happened before the useful life of the vehicle(whatever that is determined to be) as well as it was not a lack of maintenance related.

For me, 150,000 miles is the useful life but it sounds like Ford is pushing for 135,000.

Now the question is when did Mazda know the cylinder heads and the HLA's on the CX-5 were defective and how many will fail before 135,000 (or 150,000) miles?
 
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Now the question is when did Mazda know the cylinder heads and the HLA's on the CX-5 were defective and how many will fail before 135,000 (or 150,000) miles?
That is the question, not some theory about what constitutes poor design. As your experience illustrates, Ford's horrible, dreadful, unconscionable design choice resulted in your trouble free ownership. It's all about how many and when.
 
That is the question, not some theory about what constitutes poor design. As your experience illustrates, Ford's horrible, dreadful, unconscionable design choice resulted in your trouble free ownership. It's all about how many and when.
Never had that Ford engine...

There are some differences...

All those Ford water pump failures happended after warranty period so Ford is claiming it didn't know because there were no warranty repairs and the after warranty problems weren't noticed because they were trickling in.

Some of the Mazda CX-5 head crack failures have occured quite quickly with some at the 20,000 to 30,000 mile range so Mazda had to have known about this problem fairly early yet continued to sell the vehicles without fixing the design and or production line until later on.

Also, the ford problems happended between 65,000 and 150,000 plus.

The Mazda problems happended starting at 20,000 and up which means there is probably more to come.

* If you go by Ford's numbers that even though the first pump hence engine failure was at 65,000 yet 80% of the failures occured after 135,000 miles.

Then it stands to reason that the cracked head problem will have lots more occuring outside the warranty period.

Granted it's a different type of engine failure but the Mazda problem had some occur during warranty and now are starting to shown up after warranty.

Plus that's just cracked heads...there is still the HLA lifter tap issue as well.

Additionally Ford can dispute that most of the higher mileage water pump failures are either past engine life usefulness or due to lack of proper maintenance.

* What ford, myself and the courts may see as vehicle life / usefulness differs. I feel 10 year/150,000 miles should be used. I'm sure ford and other car Manufacturers would like it to be 1 day/1 mile if they could. The courts and jury will determine their own figure/timeline.

In closing, for Mazda it will be hard to claim a cracked head is due to poor maintenance...its definitely a defect.
 
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Some of the Mazda CX-5 head crack failures have occured quite quickly with some at the 20,000 to 30,000 mile range so Mazda had to have known about this problem fairly early yet continued to sell the vehicles without fixing the design and or production line until later on.
There are a few instances of the "when" in that mileage range, a few much earlier, but no evidence that the "how many" has reached a percentage of concern.
 
Some of the Mazda CX-5 head crack failures have occurred quite quickly with some at the 20,000 to 30,000 mile range so Mazda had to have known about this problem fairly early yet continued to sell the vehicles without fixing the design and or production line until later on.

I think it's better for things like this to happen within the warranty period. Obviously it would be ideal if there were no issues at all, but if something happens within the warranty period, there is a much, much higher chance of getting the issue resolved at no cost to the owner. It also means that the manufacturer is able to make production changes while the engine is still being manufactured and sold. Those who are out of warranty can pony up for a brand new engine or engine rebuild with updated components. If the engine is no longer manufactured when the engine fails and the owner no longer has warranty coverage, they are stuck with buying a junked motor and hoping the same common issue doesn't happen again. But hey, at least there's a ton of them available in junkyards, right?

To your last point, if the problem doesn't appear to be widespread and there is a very small percentage of failures being reported vs actual sales, it makes sense to "wait and see" if more cases pop up. As the number of cases rise, they're able to collect more data, and review it to see if there is a common point of failure or defect. If/when it comes to the point where there are enough cases to warrant the risk of changing the design, the manufacturer can assess that risk and make a decision. The best thing that we, as owners, can do, is report any issues we're having to the dealer/manufacturer and voice our concerns.
 
Well, you tell me which engine DebQ has. That's the vehicle in question.. She didn't say where she bought it. Funny--she put a like on my post but didn't answer the question. I know you'd like all engine issues to be related to CD but that is not necessarily case.
Yes the engine is a 2.5L. I got it back and then 1 week later there was an axle seal leaking! Seems to be fine now and has been driven on two long trips. Wish me luck I am headed to NY from GA next week.
 
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