Clinton or Obama

[Donas64]

That Obama Preacher story is picking up steam....as it should. How can you preach unity in public and base your whole campaign on it only to worship at a place where the preacher is sooooo negative, hateful and anti-white America and America in general for 20+ years. Makes no sense unless he joined the church for political expediency when he was an up and comer.

Oh the tangled web we weave.

Jerry Falwell makes his post 9/11 comments and the media has a freakin field day with it even after he apologizes.

This guy proceeds to rip the United States a new one, blames America for 9/11 and pretty much everything else thats messed up with the world and I never even hear about it till right now. It wasn't on the radar.....anywhere. Talk about media suppression.

Man the media is useless. But we all already knew that.

 

[Foolish]

Settle it the old-fashioned way:

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[Killer]

That Obama Preacher story is picking up steam....as it should. How can you preach unity in public and base your whole campaign on it only to worship at a place where the preacher is sooooo negative, hateful and anti-white America and America in general for 20+ years. Makes no sense unless he joined the church for political expediency when he was an up and comer.

Oh the tangled web we weave.

Jerry Falwell makes his post 9/11 comments and the media has a freakin field day with it even after he apologizes.

This guy proceeds to rip the United States a new one, blames America for 9/11 and pretty much everything else thats messed up with the world and I never even hear about it till right now. It wasn't on the radar.....anywhere. Talk about media suppression.

Man the media is useless. But we all already knew that.

where have you been. it has been in the news for weeks. sdo has Obamas denouncement of the guy and his church.

 

[Knox Joe]

So he just found out his preacher feels this way? (dunno)

LMAO. Total BS.

What a effen liar, and deceiver. Everyone one of these people running for office are evil.

 

[SuperStretch18]

30 years condensed to two minutes of sound bytes. If this is really what that church was founded on, then why aren't there more than four clips? Can you honestly say that there aren't two minutes worth of statements in your life that could be considered inflamitory?

 

[mysleeper6]

Illegal immigration costs us more than the war in Iraq. Why are you not concerned about that over the war in Iraq? This effects you more at home than the war. Our economy is suffering because of the costs of illegals. They are ruining the lower income job market here, taking jobs away from hard working citizens.

I didn't wade thru this entire thread, so maybe somebody already called you on this one. Illegal immigration is costing us more than $12 Billion a month? That's the lastest figure from our ill-advised nation-building efforts in the Middle East. What job is an illegal doing that you want? Picking fruit? Harvesting tobacco? Cleaning houses? Grooming horses? Apparently they are not taking too many jobs away from Americans, because the unemployment rate is 4.8% (in 1982 it was 9.7%, Bureau of Labor Statistics).

That said, I am staunchly opposed to illegal immigration. I do feel that it is a huge, unaddressed security concern for our country. There is clearly a need for unskilled labor in this country, but I think it should be through a regulated visiting worker program. And before you vilify the worker, remember there is some dirtbag hiring them illegally as well.

 

[Knox Joe]

I didn't wade thru this entire thread, so maybe somebody already called you on this one. Illegal immigration is costing us more than $12 Billion a month? That's the lastest figure from our ill-advised nation-building efforts in the Middle East. What job is an illegal doing that you want? Picking fruit? Harvesting tobacco? Cleaning houses? Grooming horses? Apparently they are not taking too many jobs away from Americans, because the unemployment rate is 4.8% (in 1982 it was 9.7%, Bureau of Labor Statistics).

That said, I am staunchly opposed to illegal immigration. I do feel that it is a huge, unaddressed security concern for our country. There is clearly a need for unskilled labor in this country, but I think it should be through a regulated visiting worker program. And before you vilify the worker, remember there is some dirtbag hiring them illegally as well.

Post # 65 smart guy.

$32 billion a month.

They aren't taking my job but definitely my friends' jobs. Have you never heard of the construction business? Most people in the construction field can't get a job in Florida right now because of illegals. Also, there are plenty of hard working citizens that cannot find general labor jobs because of them.

 

[Donas64]

where have you been. it has been in the news for weeks. sdo has Obamas denouncement of the guy and his church.

I know its been in the news for weeks, what I'm saying is that it took forever to come out, then another eternity for it to gain traction. This is the biggest challenge for his campaign yet. It should have come out ages ago.

Jerry Falwells comment was on the air within hours of him making it, and it took Obamas pastors comments 7 years to hit the mainstream media? I smell some of that fine media bias.

 

[Donas64]

30 years condensed to two minutes of sound bytes. If this is really what that church was founded on, then why aren't there more than four clips? Can you honestly say that there aren't two minutes worth of statements in your life that could be considered inflamitory?

Just visit the chruches website and read some of the sermons. Its FAR more than 2 mins of sound bytes. And even if it were, the media have destroyed peoples reputations for much much less. No one is saying that the chruch has not done good things in the past, as a matter of fact while I would not attend that church, if the people there resonate with that message, thats between them and God.

My beef is with Obama and what seems to be him founding his campaign on one thing, while endorsing a chruch over a period of 20+ years that believes something totally different.

Will the real Obama please stand up!

I need to listen to his speech on race today and see how he addresses this.

 

[BOOSTR]

The sound bites put forth at this time are indeed old news. Some people just want to link him to his pastor and spread the notion that he thinks the same way. Sure it will have some effect but those folks were not going to vote for him or change their views no matter what he said today.

Race is not the issue and there are far more important challenges facing us besides what a pastor preeched from a pulpit. The American economy is issue #1. We need to get things moving in the right direction, quit relying on foreign debt to sustain growth and starting paying down this enourmous debt burden which we have been saddled with since 2001.

 

[Knox Joe]

The sound bites put forth at this time are indeed old news. Some people just want to link him to his pastor and spread the notion that he thinks the same way.

Obama has said that this man has been his mentor, and adviser for a long time. Of course he thinks the same. His wife just told everyone exactly how she feels about our country. What's to make us think that he does not think like they do? The two people closest to him think that way and he doesn't?

I'm not buying it.

 

[Shane5425]

just remember guys, vote for the vice president not the front runner....

 

[Donas64]

Obama has said that this man has been his mentor, and adviser for a long time. Of course he thinks the same. His wife just told everyone exactly how she feels about our country. What's to make us think that he does not think like they do? The two people closest to him think that way and he doesn't?

I'm not buying it.

Excatly. Some people are sooooo eager to sweep this under the rug. I wasn't going to vote for Obama (heck I can't vote for anyone) buy that does not mean that I don't want to know the true heart of the man who will lead this nation.

Juan Williams of NPR is no conservative and pretty much hates George Bush, but listen to his take on the situation and this speech.

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You don't attend a place of worship for 20 years and give over 20 grand, get married and have your kids baptised there without either being a complete phony and using the chruch just for political expediency (what I'm inclined to believe) or truly believing what is being taught there (what I think Obamas wife subscribes to)

Truth be told. I think Obama attended there mostly to make inroads into the black community. I don't think he agreed with what the pastor said but he stayed there to boost his political aspirations, which I think is a shame. No ones perfect but sometimes you have to stand on principle.

His wife on the other hand (based on comments she has made) I think totally buys into what the pastor says and thats disturbing to me also. As an African married to a white female who will someday have little bi-racial munchkins running around, I want a leader who will truly unite America along party and racial lines. While it will never be perfect, it is MUCH better than it was (contrary to what the well to do, Ivy league educated Michelle Obama will tell you) and while I don't agree with his policies, Barack held the potential to do just that if elected. I'm kinda dissapointed that he would have such a strong association with a man who spews a lot of class envy and hate from the pulpit.

 

[Donas64]

The sound bites put forth at this time are indeed old news. Some people just want to link him to his pastor and spread the notion that he thinks the same way. Sure it will have some effect but those folks were not going to vote for him or change their views no matter what he said today.

Race is not the issue and there are far more important challenges facing us besides what a pastor preeched from a pulpit. The American economy is issue #1. We need to get things moving in the right direction, quit relying on foreign debt to sustain growth and starting paying down this enourmous debt burden which we have been saddled with since 2001.

It wasn't an issue for Obama which made him appealing to sveral people. But now it is a big one. The nation needs healing and needs to come together. The economy and and several other factors are of huge importance, but healing racial and party divides to some extent was a great opportunity also.

 

[Donas64]

To be fair: Its a good speech, and the Church has surely done good. But I have NEVER and I mean never heard any pastor say such things as this guy has said. And if I had even once, I guarantee you I would not attend that church next sunday. My conscience would not let me.


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[CHICO2003]

I feel this story has been blown way out of proportion. While I don't personally agree with what this Pastor said... I don't find him to be on the level of a KKK member or "hate America" like so many pundits have said.

He's a generation older than Barack and, as such, has a different life experience to draw his opinions from. My grandpa... god rest soul...great guy! Would go out of his way for almost anyone... went to church practically every day. Volunteered at a homeless shelter... the works! Unfortuneatly, like so many older folks, he had a flaw... while it wasn't KKK level... he definitely was a racist. Called black people 'colored' and often put them down. Definitely wasn't one of his most redeeming qualities. It was actually pretty embarrassing. Now did that mean I loved him less? Did that mean I enjoyed his many insightful stories about WWII, the Depression, and a slew of other things any less? Did it mean I ended my relationship with him completely? Obviously not...

Granted this pastor isn't Barack's grandpa so that 'unconditional love' thing isn't/shouldn't be a factor. But perhaps, in Barack's mind, (just like in mind with my gramps) the good outweighed the bad. Perhaps he realized that this dude lived in a different America. A more racist America. An America that segregated blacks... An America that sent soldiers over to Vietnam only to.... well... let's not go there. My point is... while he sounds like a nutjob, he's speaking his mind in a free country... and voicing his opinion (an opinion that is shared by plenty of others) that's largely based on his life experiences. We all see the world differently. A white male that's brought up in an affluent community and is basically given the world on a silver platter probably isn't going to think the country is as racist as a minority living in the ghetto. A lot of the talking heads you see on TV criticizing this guy and Barack most likely fell into the 1st category. Try as they might, they just don't truly KNOW what it's like....

Definitely not condoning or justifying what he said. As a political figure, you need to be smarter with who you associate with. For someone as intelligent as Obama, it's unfortunate that he allowed himself to get setup for this. It's one thing to keep it real and stay true to yourself... but when you're running for office, you need to appeal to a majority... and often times that means dropping anything that might be controversial. One of the reasons I'd never consider politics. You gotta almost be everything to everyone... Since that's impossible... it pretty much ensures you'll have a level of phoniness to you. not cool

So hopefully this doesn't sink Obama. He's doing all the right things to control the damage... and possibly even turn this into a positive... though that would be asking too much. He just needs to get through this in one piece and wait for the next big news story to hit... Then the target will be off his back and he can get back to doing what he's best at....

 

[BOOSTR]

As long as Obama keeps winning and threatening the way things are done in Washingington D.C., he'll always have a target on his back and the attempts to derail his campaign will continue.

For me this was never an issue. For I recognize the seperation of pastor and church member. Its that simple for me. A few sound bites won't change that. The attempt to link his thoughts and views as the same just do not work with me. Its just politricks as usual and things will get tougher as the campaign goes on.

This notion that because he is a long standing member that he has to think the same way is just bunk. By the time he came to this church, his views and opinions had most likely already been shaped by his own life experiences. Its not like he grew up in that church or that the church is cult which brainwashes its members. He does not come accross as afro-centric or as a conspiracy theorist in any way to me when he speaks.

 

[Knox Joe]

That's retarded.

He was not just his preacher.

Go educate yourself before posting please.

Obama himself calls this man his mentor, advisor, friend, spiritual advisor, etc. etc. a very important man in his life. Doesn't sound like the typical preacher/church goer relationship to me. (dunno)


Keep lying to yourself if it justifies your decisions though.


baaaaaa

 

[BOOSTR]

Why do you even care really as your on record as not going to vote for him and not buying anything he says. So what you think about the nature of the relationship is as pointless as the issue itself.

Retarded is most likely something you can opine on with great passion I'm sure. Your education and life experience has provided you with savant like wisdom.

 

[Killer]

That's retarded.

He was not just his preacher.

Go educate yourself before posting please.

Obama himself calls this man his mentor, advisor, friend, spiritual advisor, etc. etc. a very important man in his life. Doesn't sound like the typical preacher/church goer relationship to me. (dunno)


Keep lying to yourself if it justifies your decisions though.


baaaaaa

I think it is funny that you guys and those like you are so worried about this. I mean you act like Obama is going to get into office and paint the White House black and open up a Black Panther office. (rofl)

Then he will move all the white folks to concentration camps ...(silly)