2.0t03speed
Member
- :
- 08.5 CWP Speed 3
yea its alot easier to keep every thing organized and while its out you can clean everything and whatnot
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Any guides to changing valve stem seals?
- Thread starter Weborific
- Start date
2.0t03speed
Member
- :
- 08.5 CWP Speed 3
depends what kind of motor he uses in his boat. You do know alot of ppl use chevy 350 small blocks as onboard motors in boats right?
Yeah, there isn't actually that much difference unless he works on 2-stroke jet-ski engines.
With his skill, I'd say let him go for it.
I was asking from a "novice" skill, would it be better to just remove the head. For my skill level, it seems as though that is the best option. I'm missing a small amount of coolant every now and then so it might be good to replace the head gasket and have the head resurfaced anyway. I also have no clue on the age of the timing belt, so I might as well do that and the water pump too. Hopefully I can get a decent look at my piston rings as well
Will our engines pass a compression test with bad valve-seals? I was just thinking I might want to do one to make sure I don't have a ring issue, but wondering it it would pass with valve seal issues.
Thoughts?
With his skill, I'd say let him go for it.
I was asking from a "novice" skill, would it be better to just remove the head. For my skill level, it seems as though that is the best option. I'm missing a small amount of coolant every now and then so it might be good to replace the head gasket and have the head resurfaced anyway. I also have no clue on the age of the timing belt, so I might as well do that and the water pump too. Hopefully I can get a decent look at my piston rings as well
Will our engines pass a compression test with bad valve-seals? I was just thinking I might want to do one to make sure I don't have a ring issue, but wondering it it would pass with valve seal issues.
Thoughts?
Bad valve seals will have little or no effect on engine compression. A compression check can check for ring problems if you first do a dry check and follow up with a wet check by adding about a spoon full of oil to the cylinders. If the rings are leaking the compression will increase on the wet test.
Clifton
Clifton
justanothermp5
Banned
- :
- Rust Bucket
pulling the head would prob be the easiest way to do it
if u keep the head on then its going to be much harder i imagine
plus u coud replace the head gasket and stuff like u said..
its not that hard, u just have to know how to do it, find a shop manual if ur unsure
if u keep the head on then its going to be much harder i imagine
plus u coud replace the head gasket and stuff like u said..
its not that hard, u just have to know how to do it, find a shop manual if ur unsure
justanothermp5
Banned
- :
- Rust Bucket
1400 hell no, thats a rip off
16 hours of labor....eh...maybe
but 1400 is alot for that, is that including the parts too or just for the labor?
16 hours of labor....eh...maybe
but 1400 is alot for that, is that including the parts too or just for the labor?
^ lol
Yeah, if your going to have a shop do it, don't have a dealership-shop do the work. Find an independent shop, the labor rates will be much less. Also, do the research and buy the parts yourself. Then you wont be paying the independent shops mark-up on those parts. You'll only be paying for labor...
Past warranty work, I wouldn't have a dealer to do anything to any of my cars, why over-pay?
Yeah, if your going to have a shop do it, don't have a dealership-shop do the work. Find an independent shop, the labor rates will be much less. Also, do the research and buy the parts yourself. Then you wont be paying the independent shops mark-up on those parts. You'll only be paying for labor...
Past warranty work, I wouldn't have a dealer to do anything to any of my cars, why over-pay?
I spoke to the dealership as well, he quoted me $1580 total cost to have the valve stem seals replaced.
$990 for a head gasket replacement (6.5hrs & $400 parts...)
so the rest is for the valve stems.
I called around and found the gasket set for $195, much better than $400. I might just attempt this myself next week, I don't wanna pay the dealership a grand just to replace a couple gaskets.
$990 for a head gasket replacement (6.5hrs & $400 parts...)
so the rest is for the valve stems.
I called around and found the gasket set for $195, much better than $400. I might just attempt this myself next week, I don't wanna pay the dealership a grand just to replace a couple gaskets.
ok, i'm back. My brother-in-law and his dad (they're mechanics) are currently replacing the seals. I called for an update and I'm told they've been at it all day just to put the spring locks back. Now I'm not too familiar with engines, so I don't know what to tell them. They say the springs are really deep and they don't have the right tool to install the locks. Is there something they're doing wrong? Any advice that'll help?? THANKS!
- :
- 2003 mazda protege5
wow
i have had the same problem my car was an everyday car,, i only have 55,000 miles on it, i took my factory exhaust off and when i put all new one meaning header back i didnt put my o2 sensors back... i have been told from a mazda dealer that it was the problem.... however i did a leak down test and it is infact the valve seals,, on start up it blows smoke and when i drive it only when i get on it, it blows some,,, i hate this bc at shows when its over i start it up and it looks like iam fogging for bugs lol,,, so i i have an 80 gal air compressor and the fitting you have to get the engine tdc each cylinder to you get all of them done,, it took me about 6 hours but head still on car and guess what no more smoke for me if you have anymore ???? i might beable to help
i have had the same problem my car was an everyday car,, i only have 55,000 miles on it, i took my factory exhaust off and when i put all new one meaning header back i didnt put my o2 sensors back... i have been told from a mazda dealer that it was the problem.... however i did a leak down test and it is infact the valve seals,, on start up it blows smoke and when i drive it only when i get on it, it blows some,,, i hate this bc at shows when its over i start it up and it looks like iam fogging for bugs lol,,, so i i have an 80 gal air compressor and the fitting you have to get the engine tdc each cylinder to you get all of them done,, it took me about 6 hours but head still on car and guess what no more smoke for me if you have anymore ???? i might beable to help
So, massive bump to an old thread, but for those reading this, I did the non-head removal valve seal replacement, and what a job, but WAY easier than removing the head. I will try to detail the ups (and downs) of this process.
1. Remove timing belt, there are plenty of write ups here about that process, and this car is probably the easiest timing belt I have ever worked on...
2. Remove cam shafts. The pulleys have to come off first, as you cannot access the bearing caps with them on. There is two notches in the back of the pulleys (for some reason) but only a single dowel, so I marked the proper notch with a grease pen, red for exhaust, blue for intake, so I would put them back the right way without having to think too much. Keep all your bearing caps organized so they go back on the same way they came off, unless you are having the cams polished.
3. Take some paper towel, or rag bits, or whatever your favorite thing to shove in holes (tampons would probably work awesome) and fill all the oil drain holes in the head. Now, there is some cowboy out there right now thinking "I won't drop anything down there". And that is how I ended up with a valve collet (keeper) in my oil pan.
4. Using a good magnet, or a soft touch with a screwdriver or pliers, remove all your bucket-shim assemblies, and organize them from 1-16 on a piece of cardboard. Keep them in order as they wear with the cams, unless you are planning on re-shim (which technically you should but if you didn't hear any valve tick before, why bother?).
5. Remove spark plugs (if not already) and huck something long and non-scratchy down the cylinder 1 hole, or your favorite cylinder, and turn the crankshaft until it bottoms out. The long thing will hopefully be visible when you are stuck down by the passenger side wheel well.
6. Take about 30 feet or more of 1/4 inch nylon rope, and start packing that cylinder. I had a screwdriver that was made to pull nails with a claw on it, which worked awesome for pushing down the rope. A flathead would also work I suppose.
7. Once you are convinced the cylinder is FULL of rope (pushing rope, heh heh heh) then go back to your crankshaft and turn it like a mo-fo until that rope is SQUISHED, and find a way to lock it in place (long breaker bar against the undercarriage). You don't want those valves moving at all! Any movement just makes installing the collets way harder (keepers).
8. First take something solid and push down on the top of the valves, and make sure they don't move. You REALLY don't want them moving. Take a 13/16 deep socket, and MAKE SURE you cover the hole (I used an extension) and smack the hell of the top of the valve spring you want to remove the collets from. Hold the socket on top and wiggle it a bit, you should hear the collets rattle around. I learned about the hole in the socket when one of my keepers hit me in the face, and then got lost in the engine bay.
9. Take your magnet, and remove the collets, hat, and spring from the valve. That was the easy part.
10. Now you get to wrestle off the valve seal. You can buy a specialized pair of pliers for the job, but they are welded in place due to long miles, high temps, and rubber sealing to the metal. I found the best way was to tap them DOWN a bit first to break the seal with an 11 mm deep socket. Then rotate them a bit, and squish the sides to disengage the seals, and then I have a good dental pick type tool to pull it up. They are a pain, and you will wreck your knuckles. Good luck.
11. Lube up your new seals like prom night, and gently slide em on. Take special care to slide them over the groove for the collets and work them slowly past. Oh, and don't be a dumb-arse like me and drop one down an oil hole. They fit perfectly down them. You can fish them out, but who wants to do all that swearing?!? You will feel two lips as you press them into place. You can use the same 11mm socket to rest on the metal shoulders without riding on the rubber seal. No, 10mm is too small, I don't care if you already have your 10mm out. Too damn bad.
12. Now the really fun part. Throw the spring, hat, and collets back in. To put the collets in, I rigged up a 2x4 attached to my strut bar with some plumbing strapping, and then attached a hockey puck to the bottom side for grip. Then I fashioned my own valve press using a deep 13/16 socket (old spark plug socket) and cut the side out of it using my reciprocating saw. You REALLY need two people for this part. I did 2 of 16 valves with just myself, and WHEW, was I glad when my neighbor popped over. So you need to compress the valve and then pop the collets into the top of the valve, and then slowly relieve the pressure on the valve. The difference between most heads and this one is twofold: 1- the valves are way down in the head, so you have to have tiny fingers and double jointed ones at that. 2- the hats and springs are too damn tall (they should have made the valves taller and the buckets shorter) so you can't "stage" the collets on top of the valve like you can in other engines I have rebuilt. Normally, you can just put the collets beside the valve stem in the hat, push down slow, go back up slow, and they are magically in place! This one you have to manipulate them into place, and it is a major hassle. But with the leverage and a big ass window cut into a socket, you can do 16 valves in about 2 hours. I cut the window in my socket all the way to the bottom because I am lazy, but I should have left a complete ring of the socket at the bottom so that it would press the hat down flat, but because I just cut the side off the socket, it made the hat tilt and then I could only get one collet in at a time. This also works, you just have to put them in one at a time, and once one collet is in, it does hold the valve in place for the second one.
12a. You can buy a special tool for doing valve springs from the top, but I am way too Scottish for that.
13. Repeat for the other 4 cylinders.
14. Lube the crap out of everything!!! Just like assembly of a new engine. Remember that your top end won't have oil in it for a few seconds of start up as your cams will be drained.
15. Put all your buckets back on, cams, timing belt, etc... you know the rest.
Notes: I actually did lose a collet down an oil passage, and it was the one it the middle that goes all the way down to the pan (I know, I checked). I actually also lost a new valve seal down an oil passage, and they do fit. Don't do that one. It took a long time to fish out. I finally had the cams on before I noticed a stray, NEW valve seal on my bench. I got lucky and the first valve I disassembled was the one I had missed. Don't be in a hurry, and do it right.
Review: After 2 days the smoke cleared (I guess I put on a bit too much assembly lube) but now NO more smoke! My P5 has 270,000 kms and was smoking every start for the last 8 months since I bought it. I am very happy to have no more smoke. I was using a litre of oil a week!
1. Remove timing belt, there are plenty of write ups here about that process, and this car is probably the easiest timing belt I have ever worked on...
2. Remove cam shafts. The pulleys have to come off first, as you cannot access the bearing caps with them on. There is two notches in the back of the pulleys (for some reason) but only a single dowel, so I marked the proper notch with a grease pen, red for exhaust, blue for intake, so I would put them back the right way without having to think too much. Keep all your bearing caps organized so they go back on the same way they came off, unless you are having the cams polished.
3. Take some paper towel, or rag bits, or whatever your favorite thing to shove in holes (tampons would probably work awesome) and fill all the oil drain holes in the head. Now, there is some cowboy out there right now thinking "I won't drop anything down there". And that is how I ended up with a valve collet (keeper) in my oil pan.
4. Using a good magnet, or a soft touch with a screwdriver or pliers, remove all your bucket-shim assemblies, and organize them from 1-16 on a piece of cardboard. Keep them in order as they wear with the cams, unless you are planning on re-shim (which technically you should but if you didn't hear any valve tick before, why bother?).
5. Remove spark plugs (if not already) and huck something long and non-scratchy down the cylinder 1 hole, or your favorite cylinder, and turn the crankshaft until it bottoms out. The long thing will hopefully be visible when you are stuck down by the passenger side wheel well.
6. Take about 30 feet or more of 1/4 inch nylon rope, and start packing that cylinder. I had a screwdriver that was made to pull nails with a claw on it, which worked awesome for pushing down the rope. A flathead would also work I suppose.
7. Once you are convinced the cylinder is FULL of rope (pushing rope, heh heh heh) then go back to your crankshaft and turn it like a mo-fo until that rope is SQUISHED, and find a way to lock it in place (long breaker bar against the undercarriage). You don't want those valves moving at all! Any movement just makes installing the collets way harder (keepers).
8. First take something solid and push down on the top of the valves, and make sure they don't move. You REALLY don't want them moving. Take a 13/16 deep socket, and MAKE SURE you cover the hole (I used an extension) and smack the hell of the top of the valve spring you want to remove the collets from. Hold the socket on top and wiggle it a bit, you should hear the collets rattle around. I learned about the hole in the socket when one of my keepers hit me in the face, and then got lost in the engine bay.
9. Take your magnet, and remove the collets, hat, and spring from the valve. That was the easy part.
10. Now you get to wrestle off the valve seal. You can buy a specialized pair of pliers for the job, but they are welded in place due to long miles, high temps, and rubber sealing to the metal. I found the best way was to tap them DOWN a bit first to break the seal with an 11 mm deep socket. Then rotate them a bit, and squish the sides to disengage the seals, and then I have a good dental pick type tool to pull it up. They are a pain, and you will wreck your knuckles. Good luck.
11. Lube up your new seals like prom night, and gently slide em on. Take special care to slide them over the groove for the collets and work them slowly past. Oh, and don't be a dumb-arse like me and drop one down an oil hole. They fit perfectly down them. You can fish them out, but who wants to do all that swearing?!? You will feel two lips as you press them into place. You can use the same 11mm socket to rest on the metal shoulders without riding on the rubber seal. No, 10mm is too small, I don't care if you already have your 10mm out. Too damn bad.
12. Now the really fun part. Throw the spring, hat, and collets back in. To put the collets in, I rigged up a 2x4 attached to my strut bar with some plumbing strapping, and then attached a hockey puck to the bottom side for grip. Then I fashioned my own valve press using a deep 13/16 socket (old spark plug socket) and cut the side out of it using my reciprocating saw. You REALLY need two people for this part. I did 2 of 16 valves with just myself, and WHEW, was I glad when my neighbor popped over. So you need to compress the valve and then pop the collets into the top of the valve, and then slowly relieve the pressure on the valve. The difference between most heads and this one is twofold: 1- the valves are way down in the head, so you have to have tiny fingers and double jointed ones at that. 2- the hats and springs are too damn tall (they should have made the valves taller and the buckets shorter) so you can't "stage" the collets on top of the valve like you can in other engines I have rebuilt. Normally, you can just put the collets beside the valve stem in the hat, push down slow, go back up slow, and they are magically in place! This one you have to manipulate them into place, and it is a major hassle. But with the leverage and a big ass window cut into a socket, you can do 16 valves in about 2 hours. I cut the window in my socket all the way to the bottom because I am lazy, but I should have left a complete ring of the socket at the bottom so that it would press the hat down flat, but because I just cut the side off the socket, it made the hat tilt and then I could only get one collet in at a time. This also works, you just have to put them in one at a time, and once one collet is in, it does hold the valve in place for the second one.
12a. You can buy a special tool for doing valve springs from the top, but I am way too Scottish for that.
13. Repeat for the other 4 cylinders.
14. Lube the crap out of everything!!! Just like assembly of a new engine. Remember that your top end won't have oil in it for a few seconds of start up as your cams will be drained.
15. Put all your buckets back on, cams, timing belt, etc... you know the rest.
Notes: I actually did lose a collet down an oil passage, and it was the one it the middle that goes all the way down to the pan (I know, I checked). I actually also lost a new valve seal down an oil passage, and they do fit. Don't do that one. It took a long time to fish out. I finally had the cams on before I noticed a stray, NEW valve seal on my bench. I got lucky and the first valve I disassembled was the one I had missed. Don't be in a hurry, and do it right.
Review: After 2 days the smoke cleared (I guess I put on a bit too much assembly lube) but now NO more smoke! My P5 has 270,000 kms and was smoking every start for the last 8 months since I bought it. I am very happy to have no more smoke. I was using a litre of oil a week!
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