AEM F/IC writeup

That's excellent news dude. I really didn't want to rewire this thing again, but if it will save me from spending another $100+ to get it working then I'm all ears. So do you think I could still make this work without intercepting the MAF? I would really prefer not to do that.
 
No you don't need to intercept the MAF. Running it straight into the PCM is your best bet.

Put the O2 on the Analog A in/out. Then use the voltage offset table and set all values above 10 on your MAP to -.478. That's what I have right now and like. I am going to try .49 tonight and see if it helps with first gear without ruining the rest of them.

You'll need to do a couple runs so the PCM stores the stft into the ltft, otherwise you'll see a tiny spike as the stft carried into open loop for a brief second. It's nothing as bad as the car does stock though and if you didn't log it, you wouldn't notice it.

Then you'll want to use your fuel map to pull fuel where you are running too rich. Use small increments, but I currently have a -11% at 4200 rpms and then interpolating to 0 on either end. Your numbers could be quite a bit different since you will be using a non-intercepted MAF though.

I spoke to Crossover auto today and they said there is nothing we can do about initial delay in fuel delivery, it's in the PCM like that for emissions purposes. He did point me to a generic binary editor mainly used for fords/gms but could potentially be used to tune the stock PCM. He also has our PCM binary he got from Mazda. So I am not sure how impossible or possible it is to crack the stock PCM, but I'll be looking into it.
 
Update from My tuner today he got to 5k rpm's with full boost!! Smooth it what he said and he didn't have to unplug the 02 sensor and non of that BS, anyhow he's tunig the rest of the 02 tables on the dyno tonight!! Hope he gets it all dialed in! He spoke with aem and the maf will hit the max voltage 4.8 at 10 psi..
 
4.8. Ok I actually confirmed that with some logs from this weekend, so you may actually be hitting fuel cut. I wasn't sure if I was maxing out the maf at 4.8 or I was hitting the rev limiter. I didn't actually like taking the car to the rev limiter, since I was hitting 4.8 around 7100 rpms I wasn't sure what it was. I assumed that 5v was the limit.

So you hit 4.8 at 5k rpms at 10 psi. Ok I am running an ATP WGA, before the wastegate opens I see spikes up to 8.5 psi, but once it's open the highest I see is 6 psi. Now that I am able to tune with the FIC I may get a boost controller to make that more consistent.

I was under the impression, mostly from the Turbo magazine article we could add quite a bit of power before hitting fuel cut. They had a 3" turbo back, intake, FMIC, and a ran a boost controller at over 12 psi to hit fuel cut off.

This kind of changes the game for Rick. I am not sure what his power goals are but I was wrong and he will have to intercept the MAF to avoid fuel cut. I was extrapolating to 5V, not 4.8, which is a massive difference.

Now that I am going through my logs the 4.8 makes a lot of sense. I actually need to adjust my MAF out down a bit as I noticed I've hit it occasionally on shifts due to the crappy stock bypass valve allowing a spike in the MAF when I open the throttle again.
 
So I've increased the negative voltage offset to -.496 and first gear is much nicer now. I probably should have just gone with -.5v to begin with, it's a nice round number.

So I think the only thing I have left to fix is the lift throttle hiccups. Most cars do this at low rpms, but the MSP is pretty bad.
 
Ok another day, another log.

I actually was still able to hit fuel cut off in first gear, even with my -.8% MAF adjustment and my 4.7V clamp.

So FYI, anyone that is logging with their AEM, you can tell fuel cut off because the injector duty cycle goes off the charts to 500+%. Here's a nice picture to show you.

uc4P9.jpg


Not sure why I hit it at 4.7V today. Last night with the same tune I was able to pull to 7k rpms in first gear. I guess it's a little colder this morning. Temperature appears to make a huge difference.

I guess I'll lower the clamp to 4.65V. I don't want to reduce the MAF output anymore because I like where my AFRs are at in open loop. I guess another .8% wouldn't kill me.

If anyone has any ideas how to get rid of the hiccups when you abruptly lift the throttle, I am all ears. A better bypass valve, running the WGA off the outside of the throttle body, may help, but I was hoping I could tune it out without spending any more money on the car. The AEM has an acceleration enrichment feature, it would be nice if it had a deceleration feature too.
 
Yeah I'll give that a shot. So weird, I must have done 5-6 first gear pulls last night that all felt great. But just went out for lunch (without my laptop) and first gear is either hitting fuel cut or misfiring consistently, and it's about 25 degrees warmer now than it was last night. I wonder if the PCM alters it's cut based on IAT, and cuts sooner in hotter weather.

I didn't change much from last night before I drove out this morning. I added a little bit of fuel around 5300 rpms since it was getting close to 12:1 when the VICS chamber opens up. Shouldn't have been enough to cause fuel cut.

This is why I wish I just had a PC built into my dash, so I could just log everything all the time. Guess I'll log on my way home tonight. It appears the MAF reading is actually higher with warmer temps, which is the exact opposite you would think.

I really need to figure out a way to move the WGA vacuum source to pre-throttle body. Cold side would be better than hot side because of the lower pressure on the cold side of the IC, but I think it would help immensely with this lift throttle crap and also with the boost spikes when you get back on the gas pedal.
 
Ok on my way tonight, I clamped the MAF at 4.6V and also used a -2.3% offset on the MAF signal. I still hit that "cut" in first gear, and occasionally during shifts.

I am back to my original thinking that there is no such thing as fuel cut, and I am just misfiring. However, my AFR's are not super rich, so not sure why I would misfire unless my plugs are bad. I am gonna go see if I can find some new plugs.
 
Member Signature Sound has exactly that. He used an 8" Dynex LCD which fit really well into the Japanese slightly larger than double DIN opening on our radio bezel and a lot of custom brackets and such.
I don't like the multi bezel look of using the metra double din kit and the bybyte 7" LCD bezel, although that would be the easiest and cheapest way to go. But very off topic from this thread.

Back on topic, Autozone actually had some ZFR6F-11's in stock. So in went the new plugs, but my sister decided to leave her car in the middle of my driveway and block me from leaving.

I did experience this "fuel cut" before back when I first got the car, knew basically nothing about this car, and was still under warranty. I just lost all power at occasionally between 5 and 6k rpms, but since I was under warranty, I just took it in. I just went through my service invoice and they did replace my plugs at 30k miles. They also replaced my WGA and my hot pipe which apparently they cracked when they took it off to get to the WGA.

Curious as to what the problem was I talked to the tech and he said the diaphram on my WGA had gone bad and it was allowing the turbo to "blow out my spark plugs." This sounded retarded to me, but I didn't have the experience or knowledge to argue with him, and after all the car was fine.

Well at 50k miles, I started getting some weird ignition problems again. More of a stumble for a few hundred rpms in the 4.5k range. I thought it could be detonation and took it in, but I was out of warranty so they sent me away. I took the WGA off and could blow through it. So I ordered the ATP, but after installing it, the problem did not go away.

So I figured plugs are cheap, let's try those, and they worked like a champ. Now I am at 70k miles, and 20k miles seems really really low, but now that I look at my service records, they replaced my plugs when they replaced the WGA. So those plugs only lasted 20k miles.

Ok driveway is open again. Let's see if that was the problem.
 
God damnit, not the MAF wire again.. though my result may change this time since I relocated it since I last tried intercepting the MAF.
 
Okay so I was just reading over all the new information in this thread once again to try and sort it all out. So jdwk, what all does your setup now include? By that I mean do you still have resistors wired in? If so, what are the ohms and watts used? Without intercepting the MAF, I am guessing this piggyback will not be able to work properly? Do you guys still think we need the flyin miata 02 voltage clamp, or does this new confirmation about the MAF voltage eliminate that theory? Sorry for all the questions I'm just trying to figure out what all I have to change before I go and rip out the ECU... again...

Oh and as far as my power goals, I don't really have a set number. As long as this car remains my daily, a built motor is out of the question so that basically limits me to less than 230whp in order to stay reliable. I think once I get a nice intake manifold replacement, install my corksport downpipe, new turbo manifold, and tune the FIC for ~9psi I should easily sit between 200-230 whp. I think that will be more than satisfactory for me, since this car has managed to put a smile on my face at 7 psi when running properly.
 
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OK ok ok. Spark plugs didn't help at all. My MAF never went above 4.5V and still was cutting out badly in first gear. So I was about to drive the damn thing into a wall, since I am sure I could get more insurance for it than I could sell it for.

Then it dawned on me.

The Long Term Fuel Trim could be applied during open loop. So I don't have good OBDII software since the disk that came with my bluetooth module was snapped in half, but I found some trial software for my brother to watch while I did a pull, and sure enough LTFT was +25 all the way through to redline.

Now I know exactly what is going on.

So AEM saying that the PCM would eventually learn out your O2 modifications is kind of right, but it doesn't lean it out, it simply turns the STFT into LTFT and carries that trim into and through the open loop operation.

So when the PCM reads it's already rich table and adds 25% to it, it hits 100% and that's your fuel cut. Fuel cut is only a byproduct of the MAF, it's the injector duty cycle that is the issue. I kept pulling more and more fuel in open loop to stay lean, which worked just fine, but the PCM doesn't know that I am pulling fuel, all it knows is what it's outputting, and if it sees 100%, it's done.

4.8V may be where you are hitting 100%, but it all depends on your fuel trims, both short and long. There is no short term fuel trim in open loop, but the long term sticks. I am not sure if this is just the last LTFT it reads or it is an average of its LTFT table, but ideally you want your LTFT to be zero. So you'll just need to watch your LTFT's like a hawk and adjust the closed loop fuel to keep it at zero.

This is not something anyone can do on a dyno or even in a single night.

So the good news is I reset the PCM, upped my fuel trim to +20 anywhere I was modifying the O2 (my Analog A), and the car runs like a champ again. I kept an eye on my LTFT today and it's still at zero, which is great, but....

The bad news is that now i need to add 20% in closed loop and remove fuel in open loop (to get rid of our crappy rich tune). So I have to get that transition perfect, and since the RPM is an analog signal, it's never perfect. It's around 4170-4200 rpms with my current calibration, but there is no way to get it right on the dot. This is why I liked letting the PCM fix it's own transition with the STFT, and I was able to get perfectly smooth transitions into open loop, but only for a few drive cycles until that STFT became LTFT and now was being added to my open loop operation as well. That nasty transition comes back, and you'll start running 10:1 AFR's again (not lean like AEM claims in the video).

You could just pull more and more fuel to keep it ideal, but if you hit 100% duty cycle you are screwed, and the more you try to correct the transition with a an abrupt +20 to -20 fuel trim, the worse it is.

So in short, our cars suck and there really isn't a way to get a perfect tune. The car will always eventually mess it up. I thought about making a PCM reset switch and just reset it everytime I start the car, but that is just ridiculous.

I can watch my LTFT over a few days of driving, and keep it at 0, but I don't think it's possible to get rid of the transition permanently.

The SSAFC, the Unichip, etc all will have this problem. The AEM is probably the best tool for the job since you can at least monitor the injector signals and change your trip points, but none of them are going to be able to sample fast enought to catch that transition perfectly.

Why no one makes a piggyback with an integrated OBDII scanner and can tune on the fly by reading the STFT and LTFT I have no idea. Or how about just one that targets an AFR in real time? Would that really be so hard?

Here's a nice picture to demonstrate how hard it is to tune out the transition. This was adding 20% fuel up to 3600 rpm, 6% at 4140rpms and adding 0% at 4200 rpms.

DmRiD.jpg


This actually doesn't feel bad at all, just a little slow with the 10:1 AFR (just like stock), but notice my AFR's going northward at higher rpms due to my MAF adjustment (which I did to try to avoid fuel cut). I will need to fix that. As you can see it's only about 81% duty cycle. 1.25*81 = 101 and fuel cut. Doesn't really matter what your MAF reads.

Now that I have a more complete understanding of the behavior, I am more convinced that a stand alone is needed to really do this right, and I just don't think that's going to happen for me.

It's better now that it is stock. I don't have to worry about the 16:1 AFR's in closed loop and the hesitation is gone. The fuel cut riddle is solved and the AEM is perfect for getting rid of fuel cut on higher boost cars since you can actually see the injector duty cycle, but there just is no way to completely defeat this rigged PCM.
 
Okay so I was just reading over all the new information in this thread once again to try and sort it all out. So jdwk, what all does your setup now include? By that I mean do you still have resistors wired in? If so, what are the ohms and watts used? Without intercepting the MAF, I am guessing this piggyback will not be able to work properly? Do you guys still think we need the flyin miata 02 voltage clamp, or does this new confirmation about the MAF voltage eliminate that theory? Sorry for all the questions I'm just trying to figure out what all I have to change before I go and rip out the ECU... again...

Oh and as far as my power goals, I don't really have a set number. As long as this car remains my daily, a built motor is out of the question so that basically limits me to less than 230whp in order to stay reliable. I think once I get a nice intake manifold replacement, install my corksport downpipe, new turbo manifold, and tune the FIC for ~9psi I should easily sit between 200-230 whp. I think that will be more than satisfactory for me, since this car has managed to put a smile on my face at 7 psi when running properly.

You don't necessarily need to intercept the MAF, but your injectors will only go to 100% before hitting fuel cut. If you are hitting 100%, then you need to lower your trims or lower your MAF signal. You can lower your trims by adding fuel in closed loop mode, and you can make then zero pretty quickly by resetting the PCM, but it's a crap shoot how long that will last.

I used an 1100ohm resistor to ground on the MAF signal. I have a small 2.3% bump in MAF voltage at idle, but the rest is all 0. I removed some MAF up top, above 4.5V but that's not really necessary if you get your LTFTs down to zero. It still will depend on how much power you are making, but you shouldn't need 100% duty cycle until about 230whp, going from the turbo magazine article.

My suggestion it to intercept it.
 
so where would 3"tbe, fmic, aftermarket turbo manifold and a ported 626 manifold put you before the fic? 180 horses? do you have a link to the article? I think i've seen it before but i'm not 100% sure.
 
so where would 3"tbe, fmic, aftermarket turbo manifold and a ported 626 manifold put you before the fic? 180 horses? do you have a link to the article? I think i've seen it before but i'm not 100% sure.
Are you talking about my car?? I have all of those and i dynoed with the ssafc at 243. So bigger turbo 3076 and fully built engine i wonder what ill get!!
 

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