Ok that makes sense now. It's misleading but accurate at the same time
2016 CX9 Owners Thread
- Thread starter MS33SM
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ilovecoffee
Member
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- 2016 Mazda CX-9 Signature
I would very much disagree, they are just hoping you'd accept this reasoning if that's what they responded with.
The wording is "8-way power driver's seat with power lumbar support."
The grammatical structure of this lists 2 different elements:
The definition of with is "to be accompanied by".
To be rephrased: An 8-way power driver's seat, accompanied by power lumbar support.
"Accompanied by" does not encompass the 8-way driver's seat, but complements it with an "in addition to".
That and the glaring fact that no other auto manufacturer markets this way, if you google that same wording you will see real 8 way adjustable driver seats from Nissan and Toyota and other automakers THAT ALSO include lumbar support.
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okay, i really didn't want to go that route, but since you started it. "with" has more than one definition according to merriam-webster.com including one that states:
a —used as a function word to indicate combination, accompaniment, presence, or addition <heat milk with honey> <went there with her> <his money, with his wife's, comes to a million>
b : inclusive of <costs $5 with the tax>
so again, i state it is open to interpretation. i don't disagree that it is misleading....i don't disagree other companies market it more transparently....go ahead and take Mazda to court....i doubt you will win.
ilovecoffee
Member
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- 2016 Mazda CX-9 Signature
Because as yrwei52 has stated previously:
yrwei52 said:
Mazda cannot suck and blow at the same time. It is false advertising, if looking at Mazda holistically. If I am only comparing Mazda vehicles, I should expect the same wording and use of the word "with".
Stryker medic
Member
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- 2016 Mazda CX9 Signature White Pearl/ 2013 Mazda CX9 GT
Dang. What did I miss? 8 way power seat still on debate? Well, we are not taking Mazda into court. It's just a petition and hopefully we can get a reasonable answer/ action from HQ. And I don't think Mazda will take it for granted either.They will not take the risk specially a public exposure.
Oh, did you get my PM ilovecoffee?
Oh, did you get my PM ilovecoffee?
Stryker medic
Member
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- 2016 Mazda CX9 Signature White Pearl/ 2013 Mazda CX9 GT
And if they stick with argument that the 8 way includes the lumbar, so they should have made the previous CX9 models advertized as 10 way like my 2013 Mazda CX9 since its got the lumbar support as well as the true 8 way. It's just a lame excuse, reasoning and them trying to get away with it.
We need to get a formal written answer from HQ. Not just from someone on the other side of the phone. Sometimes these customer service reps don't know anything and are just plain dumb.
We need to get a formal written answer from HQ. Not just from someone on the other side of the phone. Sometimes these customer service reps don't know anything and are just plain dumb.
ilovecoffee
Member
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- 2016 Mazda CX-9 Signature
There is absolutely no way it includes lumbar support like jcpharm might suggest. Only because as previously mentioned, every single other Mazda vehicle does not advertise this way. This was a mistake or omission from Mazda on a major production scale. They have been advertising it this way for quite some time also without any change. I certainly can appreciate a mistake might have happened and I don't have unreasonable demands (I think it might be quite difficult to retrofit an additional 2 ways into a seat), but that doesn't change the fact that the seat isn't quite as comfortable as I would like it to be, and what I was under the impression I was buying. I love the CX-9 don't get me wrong.
I will await to see what Mazda Canada or my dealer suggests.
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They'll certainly never replace any seats. Plus, It's quite a bit of engineering change to even add motorized tilting into the existing design.They may do it, but I have to say I'd be surprised to see it especially as early as next year. Would've been in their best interest to design it with full adjustments the first time. Costs more to change it later. With enough of these complaints you may just see the language changed to 6 + lumbar.
Stryker medic
Member
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- 2016 Mazda CX9 Signature White Pearl/ 2013 Mazda CX9 GT
One things for sure, we got screwed.
But I still love my Signature no matter what.
But I still love my Signature no matter what.
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- Plano, Texas, USA
Here are the descriptions on power seat by Mazda for different models and different model years for CX-9:
2016 Mazda6 Touring:
6-way power driver's seat
2016 Mazda6 Grand Touring:
8-way power-adjustable driver's seat with power lumbar adjustment and memory settings
2016.5 CX-5 Touring:
6-way power driver's seat with manual lumbar support
2016.5 CX-5 Grand Touring:
8-way power driver's seat with power adjustable lumbar support
2015 CX-9 Touring (and above):
8-way power-adjustable drivers seat with power-adjustable lumbar support
2015 CX-9 Grand Touring (and above):
Drivers power seat memory
2016 CX-9 Touring (and above):
8-way power driver's seat with power lumbar support
2016 CX-9 Grand Touring (and above):
Driver's seat memory
Here are others describing the power seat:
2016 Toyota Highlander:
8-way power-adjustable drivers seat with memory function and power thigh support and lumbar support
2016 Honda Pilot:
Drivers Seat with 10-Way Power Adjustment, Including Power Lumbar Support
2016 VW Tiguan:
12-way power-adjustable front seats including adjustable lumbar support and driver-seat memory function
As you can see, car manufactures, including Mazda, use "with" when they don't include lumbar and thigh support adjustments into the number of ways on seat adjustment; but they do use "including" specifically to include other adjustment counts.
But only 2016 Mazda CX-9 actually has no seat pan tilting feature although the spec says 8-way power driver's seat with power lumbar support!
That's why I call it false advertising!
Actually Mazda Australia has changed the wording from 8-way to 6-way now.
It's funny that when we had seat adjustment discussions in June and I raised the "false advertising" issue on driver seat adjustment by Mazda CX-9, I received personal attack and wanted me to shut up ...
Ultimately all that matters is if the seat is comfortable for your and other drivers of the vehicle in your household. Test drive and find out. Seems that only people needing odd seating positions may not be happy. No sense complaining if you went ahead and bought the car knowing what the seat does.
Stryker medic
Member
- :
- 2016 Mazda CX9 Signature White Pearl/ 2013 Mazda CX9 GT
No need for personal attacks here in the first place and any rude comments. We're here to share each other's opinions and who knows might benefit us down the road.
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- Plano, Texas, USA
I look at this in the different way. I was amazed Mazda spent all the engineering work to redesign the driver seat just for eliminating one stepper motor! The previous-gen CX-9 do have true 8-way power seat and Mazda could have simply reused all the available parts!
I believe the AC issue may fall the same path, trying to save the cost with an HVAC system inferior to previous-gen CX-9.
Ever noticed Mazda has also eliminated several other nice features from previous-gen CX-9? Such as auto tilt-down passenger-side mirror in reverse, and memory function for outside mirror positions to name a few.
The 2007-2015 CX-9 added and removed features over the years. My 2010 GT doesn't have "auto tilt-down passenger mirrors" or mirror memory, that was added later. On the other hand, Mazda cheaped out on some of the interior bits after 2010, like illuminated window switches, electroluminesent gauges, and they got rid of some of the blue LED interior lighting.
I'm guessing some of the "missing" features will filter onto the car in the next couple years (n-way power seats, heated/cooled seats, etc.).
I'm guessing some of the "missing" features will filter onto the car in the next couple years (n-way power seats, heated/cooled seats, etc.).
True. Really, recent seat motor designs don't need updating. Clearly it would have just made sense carrying over the whole assembly. A newly designed upper seat could easily be applied to the mechanical assembly.
Even carrying over the previous gen hvac parts would be reasonable. These aren't high tech things that need updates often.
Mazda likely buys the entire seat assembly from a supplier rather than design in house, so the change to the seats may boil down to a supplier change. I'm guessing that ventilated seats are coming in a mid-cycle refresh (just about every other SUV offers these at this point), so Mazda changed suppliers...
i realize you are quoting me, but nothing i said was a personal attack nor did i ever tell you to shut up....just making sure that's clear.(cool) we are all entitled to our opinions here.
Mazda is, by far, not the only car company that includes lumbar adjustments in counting how many "ways" the power seats adjust.
