brainbasher
Member
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- 2014 CX5 GT
Before and After
H&R lowering springs
- Thread starter dmw
- Start date
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- Mazdaspeed6
-1.7 degrees isn't too bad, but kinda pushing it in regards to tire wear.
It will only worsen when you have any load in the back, which is likely to be common on a CUV, as most owners use them for people hauling and for utility...
It will only worsen when you have any load in the back, which is likely to be common on a CUV, as most owners use them for people hauling and for utility...
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- 23 CX-5 Premium
That's my primary concern about this mod, in addition to ride degradation. Let me throw something out there and see what the collective response is. I might be happy if I could just level this thing out by dropping the rear end a half inch or so. I think it looks dorky with it's "tail-high" stance and,in my case, the load is in the front far more than the back, so I could live with a tiny bit more negative camber back there. I know they say to never ever cut coil springs, but I'm wondering what would be the harm if someone were to cut a quarter loop (or however much it took) out of the bottom of each rear coils (seem image #4 in post #52 od this thread). in order to make the car statically level. The spring wire is what it is and that would not change so therefore the spring rate would not change nor would the ride quality. Correct? Seems like all you'd lose it half inch of suspension travel. Why would this not work? Or would it?
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SayNoToPistons
Wheels, not rims...
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- CX-5 GT AWD w/ Tech, RX-8 GT 6spd w/ 'goodies'
Cutting the coil would increase the spring rate. I would suspect to the point that it will decrease fatigue cycle of the shocks due to heavily increased dampening rate requirements. The slightly lowered ride height along with the slightly higher spring rates that H&R and AutoExe spring provide is as far as I would go with the factory shocks.
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- 23 CX-5 Premium
I'm afraid you've lost me there. How does cutting the coil increase the spring rate? How would that be any different than the H&R or AutoExe (didn't know they were in the game!) spring? The H&R drop is over 1.5" which, by your logic, would be harder on the OE damper than the .5" drop I'm suggesting with the cut OE coil.
SayNoToPistons
Wheels, not rims...
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- CX-5 GT AWD w/ Tech, RX-8 GT 6spd w/ 'goodies'
These are progressive rate springs, as with most non-racing applications. The H&R springs have a different and higher progressive spring rate compared to OE's.
Read up on spring rates and spring constants. A simple search online will do you good. It all starts with a simple spring constant equation (for all fellow engineers out there):
k = d^4 G / (8 D^3 N)
Here if anyone feels lazy:
http://www.eatonsprings.com/techquestions/cuttingcoilspringscalculations.htm
Read up on spring rates and spring constants. A simple search online will do you good. It all starts with a simple spring constant equation (for all fellow engineers out there):
k = d^4 G / (8 D^3 N)
Here if anyone feels lazy:
http://www.eatonsprings.com/techquestions/cuttingcoilspringscalculations.htm
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Take a look at the coil and I think you will see the ends of the coil are flattened out for the coil holder and if you cut the end you will lose this interface area which could effect coil & holder wear and generate noise...
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- 23 CX-5 Premium
First off I want to thank you for the link to the Eaton site. There's a wealth of information there, especially for someone who has little or no experience in modifying suspensions. Secondly, call me "lazy" if you want, but the value of these forums is they connect people who have different levels of expertise on different subjects. And this is pretty arcane subject matter. That said, let me ask you a couple of questions/comments that came to me reading this material:
1) You mention that both the OE and H&R springs are progressive. How does one know that, other than the fact that H&R advertises theirs as such? Why would Mazda use a progressive spring since they had the luxury of matching spring rates to vehicle weigh and suspension travel during the design proccess?
2) Referring the photo #4 on post #52 of this thread, it's pretty obvious even to the unitiated that H&R is using a different spring rate just by virtue of the fact that their spring has 2 more coils than the OE unit. What I find interesting is that the OE spring has a "tangential end" on the bottom (which Eaton says can be cut, if so desired) while the H&R spring has a "square end". I guess there's some flexibility in these details.
At any rate, I'm probably just going to stay with the stock springs and live with the ride height. So much for trying to make this thing into a Mazda version of the European Ford (non-hybrid) C-max!
I'm enjoying reading everyone's input. Like just about everybody on this thread, I'm not a huge fan of the wheel gap on my new CX-5. I'm upgrading to 20's w/ 255/45 ZR20's in about 2 weeks. My windows are being dark tinted as I write this from Starbucks waiting for the job to be done lol (Unfortunately I'm one those people at the moment) And based on a little more R&D from my friends on this forum, I suspect lowering my CX-5 isn't to far away.
Thanks to those of you brave enough to install the kit and vet it because it certainly doesn't seem like the manufacturer has.
Thanks to those of you brave enough to install the kit and vet it because it certainly doesn't seem like the manufacturer has.
One advantage of progressive springs is that they are a compromise and thus you aren't stuck with one spring rate throughout the entire range of wheel travel. The softer portion of a progressive spring will compress when the wheel is deflected slightly by road irregularities (bumps, ruts, potholes, roadkill, etc.) and the ride quality is not greatly affected since the rate is lower in that range of deflection. When the vehicle is cornering, load transfer will compress the springs past the softer portion and into the progressively higher rate portion of the spring. This allows the vehicle to have a better handling feel when cornering without the need for overly stiff linear springs.
In the above graph a linear spring is represented by the blue line. The yellow and red lines are two different progressive springs. For small deflections of the spring, the spring force only increases slightly, yet higher displacements yield progressively more spring force.
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- 23 CX-5 Premium
I've gone back and forth on this so many times I've lost count, but basically I've decided to forego the drop, at least for now. The fact that you end up with pretty substantial negative camber (especially in the rear) with no way to correct it was the dealkiller for me. I've had vehicles that chewed up tires before and I don't care to take that chance with the CX-5. I'm reserving the right to change my mind "down the road", but that's where I'm at for now. BTW: I had my windows tinted last week (35% on fronts) and am happy with the result. Never felt the need to do this on a vehicle before, but all the glass on the CX-5 tends to make it a heat-sync. Unfortunately, the shop that did the work damaged one of the outside seales when they cut the film and now they have to replace it with a new one on order from the local dealer.
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- San Antonio, Texas
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- '15 CX-5 Miata AWD
Found out the springs are on b/o with the manu :/
Chris,
Yours will be the one I want to see since were running the identical wheel & tire size combination. I'm MAKING myself hold off on ordering wheels because I keep going back and forth between a couple TSW wheels and whether to go all Matte Black or Gunmetal or Black & Machined... Decisions Decisions....
...and I'll offer my OEM 19's with the hard to find Toyo 225/55 19's they are wrapped with here first... I hope to sell them with less then 3k miles on them so somebody will get plenty of life out of them. If anybody else has sold there's, I'm curious to know what you sold them for. Thanks!
Note: ^ OEM Toyo 225/55/19's are not hard to find today.
SayNoToPistons
Wheels, not rims...
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- CX-5 GT AWD w/ Tech, RX-8 GT 6spd w/ 'goodies'
^ This. They are run of the mill mediocre econo-miling all season tires.
My dealer (Tire Kingdom) says it's just an odd size that they don't typically stock in their warehouse. Even my Mazda dealer agreed it's an odd size. Only a few companies produce that size and like SayNoToPistons pointed out, they are kinda mediocre brands. I know more and more manufacturers are going to 19's so the availibilty of tires for 19" wheels should only increase. The Nitto Motivos in 255/45 ZR20 that I'm going to run on my CX-5 have terrific reviews and that size is easy to get from lots of other manufactures if you don't care for Nitto. I think that size gives it a solid stance. Several of these guys are running 20's and 22's and they look awesome. Not to mention getting a replacement tire isn't too dificult in an emergency. The guys that want to run stock sneakers on theirs, it's just a personal preference thing and as long as your happy with your ride, ultimately thats all that matters. Me on the other hand can't drive something that's bone stock! Just sayin. My finished CX-5 should be very similar to the 2012 Dempsey Concept CX-5 Mazda unveiled at the SEMA show in terms of wheel & tire size and lowering springs. No roof boxes on mine either unless Red Jacket Firearms wants to install some concealed remote controled M16's LOL
SayNoToPistons
Wheels, not rims...
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- CX-5 GT AWD w/ Tech, RX-8 GT 6spd w/ 'goodies'
I wouldn't call Toyo a mediocre brand, but the model and compound itself is mediocre. It is designed for the most efficient and quietest ride (low rolling resistance). The Dempsey Concept along with a few other special CX-5's all run the CX-9 20" wheels. I forgot the exact tire specs, but I have them... Somewhere...
I've got the H&R springs. Had them on for about 12,000 kms and turns out I 'forgot' to get an alignment when I installed the springs.
I have just changed the wheels over and discovered quite bad inner tyre wear on 2 of the tyres.
Is this likely to be a result of the misalignment that can be rectified with an alignment? or a camber issue?
Is camber adjustable with the CX5?
Is camber adjusted during an alignment?
I have just changed the wheels over and discovered quite bad inner tyre wear on 2 of the tyres.
Is this likely to be a result of the misalignment that can be rectified with an alignment? or a camber issue?
Is camber adjustable with the CX5?
Is camber adjusted during an alignment?
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- San Antonio, Texas
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- '15 CX-5 Miata AWD
Camber is supposedly not adjustable, however I've had my tires aligned twice (once when springs installed and today at almost 30k) and the rear aligment was not the same as the previous. Also my tires wear just fine, and I drive hard, power slide, accelerate on hard turns at 70-90 mph on certain parts of hwy.. if you had ba wear form normal driving it was certainly not because of the change in camber itself
