Engine Oil Rise

[change-man]

I am an Australian owner of a CX5 high diesel, using low sulphur fuels with 10000k on the clock. It is 5 months old and has had 4 oil changes. I had the oil changed early so I could drive it 1240ks without it passing the x mark. Most of my trips are some distance and it fills to the x mark whatever the speed or distance of trips et al.

From 4000ks to 7800ks I had 350mls of diesel in the sump. Confirmed by Caltest (Caltex). Some retirement car! I wish I had read these car forums before purchase. Evidently the Mazda 6 diesel doesn't have this issue - according to Mazda Australia. Also - according to Mazda Australia a fix is on its way (said a couple of weeks) for the hundreds of Cx5s in Australia with this issue. Does anyone know what the fix is?

 

[Morsa]

"Mazda Corporation is studying an oil dipstick with the mark "X" displaced which will be soon available"
Original not in english

Hence my surprise when observed the X looks like is in the same place than my former dipstick, except explanation by Mazda in the sense that they finally decided another type of modification.

 

[JockC]

"Mazda Corporation is studying an oil dipstick with the mark "X" displaced which will be soon available"
Original not in english.

Is it possible that they only changed the dipstick gasket on your vehicle so that the dipstick points away from the engine wall? Perhaps the replacement dipstick is yet to be installed. That would explain why your measurements show no change.

 

[change-man]

Has to be more than the dipstick. My car had 350mls of diesel in the sump after 3600ks. Mazda Japan are aware of this and the rising oil problem.

 

[Morsa]

This is the reason I wrote them, I'm awaiting the response. I told the gasket has the same part number. Could you check yours, dipstick and gasket, and tell us?.

 

[JockC]

Has to be more than the dipstick.

I think we're all in agreement on that one. I suspect that the gasket has been changed on Morsa's vehicle but they replaced the old dipstick(for the time being). By doing it in two steps, Mazda can trick people into believing that the calibration hasn't been changed. Perhaps they will slip in the new dipstick at the next service (just speculating). If they ultimately fix the real problem then I'll be delighted but I have suspicions that whatever they did to the Mazda6 may be too expensive to apply to all the CX5s so they might just do a quick dipstick replacement in order to hide the problem. I hope not.
For now, Mazda is being pretty good about keeping me up to date (as best as they can) although the information available to the help desk folk obviously leaves them in an awkward position. Mazda simply isn't updating them. I remain hopeful that they will come up with something soon (very soon) but I'm far more hopeful than confident.

 

[change-man]

I think we're all in agreement on that one. I suspect that the gasket has been changed on Morsa's vehicle but they replaced the old dipstick(for the time being). By doing it in two steps, Mazda can trick people into believing that the calibration hasn't been changed. Perhaps they will slip in the new dipstick at the next service (just speculating). If they ultimately fix the real problem then I'll be delighted but I have suspicions that whatever they did to the Mazda6 may be too expensive to apply to all the CX5s so they might just do a quick dipstick replacement in order to hide the problem. I hope not.
For now, Mazda is being pretty good about keeping me up to date although the information available to the help desk folk obviously leaves them in an awkward position. Mazda simply isn't updating them. I remain hopeful that they will come up with something soon (very soon) but I'm far more hopeful than confident.

I am getting my oil tested by Caltest (Caltex) every service so a dipstick fix alone shouldn't be the case. I think measuring the sump oil when hot (especially with diesel in it) is a problem for owners. Another issue is the rapidly rising oil. My oil tests will reveal more than the 350 mls is in the sump. Anyway my oil changes will need to be done every 4000ks so a dipstick fix alone will be really obvious.

If everything is equal It may be the case that it is an ecu issue - that is too much diesel is being injected on
active regens and maybe not for long enough. That is it sensors may precipitate an active regen at a DPF fullness of 45% but only reduce particulates to 30%??? It will trigger again in 200ks. An overseas Facebook friend is getting active regens far less than me.

 

[Morsa]

If everything is equal It may be the case that it is an ecu issue - that is too much diesel is being injected on
active regens and maybe not for long enough. That is it sensors may precipitate an active regen at a DPF fullness of 45% but only reduce particulates to 30%??? It will trigger again in 200ks. An overseas Facebook friend is getting active regens far less than me.

This is a very interesting bet. Mostly or all of guys who have reported their regens in the spanish forum are having in 200 - 240 Kms periods. I use too the trip B to record them and are in that patterm almost like a clock

 

[baronx]

I have suspicions that whatever they did to the Mazda6 may be too expensive to apply to all the CX5s so they might just do a quick dipstick replacement in order to hide the problem.

Do you really think that Mazda has fixed the issue in the new 6 ? I certainly don't believe anything that Mazda says after all this BS with my CX-5. They could have used a changed dipstick to hide the issue rather than actually fixing it.

 

[change-man]

Do you really think that Mazda has fixed the issue in the new 6 ? I certainly don't believe anything that Mazda says after all this BS with my CX-5. They could have used a changed dipstick to hide the issue rather than actually fixing it.

Ah yes -Mazda Australia have said in Carsales Aust that it is fixed. If it isn't then it potentially is misrepresenting the case. I don't think Mazda Aust is that naive. So I look forward to a real fix!

 

[baronx]

Ah yes -Mazda Australia have said in Carsales Aust that it is fixed. If it isn't then it potentially is misrepresenting the case. I don't think Mazda Aust is that naive. So I look forward to a real fix!

Apparently the new dipstick has the X raised by 11mm. My car is due to get it in a few days so we'll find out soon..

My intuition is that Mazda has the new dipstick in the 6 as well.

 

[apexanimal]

Is it just me or does this seem like a lame fix?

 

[baronx]

Is it just me or does this seem like a lame fix?

It's not a fix .. it's a bl00dy joke !!

 

[change-man]

Hi people

Mazda Aust contacted me by email yesterday. They wrote 'It involves a software update to the power control module and also a replacement oil dipstick.'

Not sure about the 11 millimetres but the software update may alter the regen timings, diesel increase during the active regens and the length of the regens.

The software update may be that fix we all want.

Now I get my sump oil tested after every service. A dipstick only fix will soon show up and possibly reflect badly on Mazda reputationally and legally.

I think the dipstick fix is to get the dipstick away from the wall. The oil should be tested when hot and is hard to read, especially when diluted by diesel.

Remember, be 'reasonable' when dealing with Mazda. If you are that 'reasonable person' and the oil saga continues the courts will look on your efforts favourably.

However I believe that Mazda Japan will be honourable. They have to - they lost over US$2 billion last year and any sales impact would not be good.

I live in hope.

 

[Morsa]

Eleven millimeters:
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/album.php?albumid=1460&attachmentid=199996
Yes this is a joke. Double distnace from max. mark

 

[ALafya]

Hi people
Mazda Aust contacted me by email yesterday. They wrote 'It involves a software update to the power control module and also a replacement oil dipstick.'

Thank you for the update.
I hope the software fix would really address the issue. It has been a shame that such a great engine was marred with this defect.

 

[Mr Fish]

Right, hopefully I can be of use.

I have CX5 in the UK and was one of the first cars to exhibit the oil dilution. I was at the point of rejecting the vehicle but am now comfortable it is being addressed. With these issues I have had a number of conversations with a very senior tech at head office and hopefully the info I have will help people.

Firstly coming from VAG group cars the issue did really concern me, however after some discussions and further research it would appear that the following points are correct:

• 
  Mazda diesel IS supposed to dilute the oil to a certain extent

• 
  The engine is designed to cope with a level of dilution and hence less effective oil, ie upgrade shells etc

• 
  The oil Mazda specify in the UK(at least) has been specified to accept dilution.

There are 2 issues as to why they sump is filling up too fast, bear in mind I had mine changed after 4000 miles!

1. The ECU is over injecting fuel during some of it's pre ignition phase during certain load scenarios. Ie too much fuel is being constantly injected and finding it's way into the sump. Also the regen fuel inject in some circumstances is too high.
2. The dipstick X should be at 24mm above max not 13mm as manufactured. I WAS SKEPTICAL ABOUT THIS! However I was honestly told and I have no reason to disbelieve them that it was a calculation error. The same engine using the same method of DPF regen is in the Mazda 6 just without skyactive elements and the X is apparently at 24mm on this model.

Fix in the UK will be as follows:

New dipstick at 24mm
New ECU flash Jan - Mar for the pre ignition fueling
Further ECU flash later in year for reduced regen fueling following final testing.

I also understand the oil dilution is significantly faster as the engine beds in which marries with my experiences, hence Mazda ship the car without full oil. My dilution rates have now dropped off dramatically.

Overall I think they will fix the issue and I'm now happy with the vehicle. Generally I'm pleased with the car, as regards the engineering sense to allow the oil to dilute, all I can say is there are a number of manufacturers all with the same issue. Maybe Mazda are there own worst enemy in that they build a very tight engine which doesn't burn ANY oil hence dilution pushes it up. Other manufacturers may burn oil so the level drops as people would expect even though it is becoming diluted. If this is the case then the Mazda method is actually better as dilution levels would be lower!

Hope that have been useful to everyone.

 

[dad of jon]

Right, hopefully I can be of use.

I have CX5 in the UK and was one of the first cars to exhibit the oil dilution. I was at the point of rejecting the vehicle but am now comfortable it is being addressed. With these issues I have had a number of conversations with a very senior tech at head office and hopefully the info I have will help people.

Firstly coming from VAG group cars the issue did really concern me, however after some discussions and further research it would appear that the following points are correct:

• 
  Mazda diesel IS supposed to dilute the oil to a certain extent

• 
  The engine is designed to cope with a level of dilution and hence less effective oil, ie upgrade shells etc

• 
  The oil Mazda specify in the UK(at least) has been specified to accept dilution.

There are 2 issues as to why they sump is filling up too fast, bear in mind I had mine changed after 4000 miles!

1. The ECU is over injecting fuel during some of it's pre ignition phase during certain load scenarios. Ie too much fuel is being constantly injected and finding it's way into the sump. Also the regen fuel inject in some circumstances is too high.
2. The dipstick X should be at 24mm above max not 13mm as manufactured. I WAS SKEPTICAL ABOUT THIS! However I was honestly told and I have no reason to disbelieve them that it was a calculation error. The same engine using the same method of DPF regen is in the Mazda 6 just without skyactive elements and the X is apparently at 24mm on this model.

Fix in the UK will be as follows:

New dipstick at 24mm
New ECU flash Jan - Mar for the pre ignition fueling
Further ECU flash later in year for reduced regen fueling following final testing.

I also understand the oil dilution is significantly faster as the engine beds in which marries with my experiences, hence Mazda ship the car without full oil. My dilution rates have now dropped off dramatically.

Overall I think they will fix the issue and I'm now happy with the vehicle. Generally I'm pleased with the car, as regards the engineering sense to allow the oil to dilute, all I can say is there are a number of manufacturers all with the same issue. Maybe Mazda are there own worst enemy in that they build a very tight engine which doesn't burn ANY oil hence dilution pushes it up. Other manufacturers may burn oil so the level drops as people would expect even though it is becoming diluted. If this is the case then the Mazda method is actually better as dilution levels would be lower!

Hope that have been useful to everyone.

Thanks for the info,

I have written to mazda stating that the car should be able to meet it's service schedule without requiring oil changes and if they cant confirm that then either refund my deposit or assure me there is a fix for this that will be applied shortly after taking ownership. If they genuinely have taken account of this in their maintenance recommendations that's fine.

What i cant be doing with is taking my car for 2 or 3 extra oil changes before the scheduled one.
If in the 1st year of ownership they said oil change every 4 months then prospective buyers can decide for themselves if it's suitable for them.
However, if they were to state that the car only needs servicing yearly/10,000 miles but they know the car will need 2 or 3 extra oil changes that is outright deception.(argh)

Heck, my current diesel WITH DPF which i've had for 5 years has given me no problems at all re: regens, warning lights, oil/fuel level rise etc. So I expect the same of the CX-5 otherwise i'd be a bit of a berk to change it(lol2)

 

[Morsa]

Thank you very much indeed Mr. Fish.
Here in France, and some friends in Spain, are very disappointed with this issue. I hope the dealers have soon the same info than your.
Regards.

 

[dvsu12]

Hi people

Mazda Aust contacted me by email yesterday. They wrote 'It involves a software update to the power control module and also a replacement oil dipstick.'

Not sure about the 11 millimetres but the software update may alter the regen timings, diesel increase during the active regens and the length of the regens.

The software update may be that fix we all want.

Now I get my sump oil tested after every service. A dipstick only fix will soon show up and possibly reflect badly on Mazda reputationally and legally.

I think the dipstick fix is to get the dipstick away from the wall. The oil should be tested when hot and is hard to read, especially when diluted by diesel.

Remember, be 'reasonable' when dealing with Mazda. If you are that 'reasonable person' and the oil saga continues the courts will look on your efforts favourably.

However I believe that Mazda Japan will be honourable. They have to - they lost over US$2 billion last year and any sales impact would not be good.

I live in hope.

When did they advise that they will be rolling out this reflash to service depts?

Our diesel is due to have its initial 1000km inspection mid Jan, so getting the ecu reflashed then would probably be good!