Cobb AP Discussion Thread

[Mistersix]

I got my Cobb AP today and loaded up stage 1 93 fucai map. LTFT are around -4/-6 .7 is the most knock ive seen so far... i am thinking about trying stage 2+ TIHFUCAI 93 v102 map.

Current mods: Fujita CAI, stock turbo inlet pipe, 3" test pipe, 3"custom catback magna flow.

Ordered: Corksport intake with turbo inlet pipe to replace my fujita.

What maps should i use with corksport?

that would be my guess for your setup.

but, i've never ran any of the CAI maps so.....

i've finished my dp install and flashed on a new map. stage2+TIHSF 93 V1.02 +tmic. have a look at this third gear pull. lemme know what ya think. looks ok to me. fuel pressure is holding up. i was a little worried about it. the car feels great, spools very fast and boost hits good and strong.

 

[buttons]

looks pretty good to me, though im a noob. ive never seen my fuel pressure under 1500-1600. even during casual driving.

 

[dougefresh_]

that would be my guess for your setup.

but, i've never ran any of the CAI maps so.....

i've finished my dp install and flashed on a new map. stage2+TIHSF 93 V1.02 +tmic. have a look at this third gear pull. lemme know what ya think. looks ok to me. fuel pressure is holding up. i was a little worried about it. the car feels great, spools very fast and boost hits good and strong.

A couple quick things about your log that concern me. I don't see APP recorded, so can I assume you had it to the floor for this entire log? If so, you're getting stuck in closed loop (Your LTFT's do not zero out until row 21). Also, your AFRs are too lean until you get to just before 4,000 RPMS. They drop after that when your STFT's zero out, and your AFR's drop to the mid-11s where they should be. Compare your OL/WOT No Knock table A (rpms vs AFRs) to you corresponding RPM & AFRs in this log, and you'll see what I mean. looking at it again, it looks like you dipped into WOT around row 15 or 16 judging by your TP%, and your AFRs were only lean for a couple rows. Next time, log APP (Accel Pedal Position) so we can see exactly where you dip into WOT, and how quickly. We'll also have a better idea of what your AFRs are actually doing. Everything else looks good though. Keep an eye on fuel pressure though.. my stock pump was holding about the same PSI as you, but if fizzled out, and start dropping off to like 1,000 PSI at redline within like 6 weeks of getting the AP, and going to a stage 2 tune.

 

[bova80]

that would be my guess for your setup.

but, i've never ran any of the CAI maps so.....

i've finished my dp install and flashed on a new map. stage2+TIHSF 93 V1.02 +tmic. have a look at this third gear pull. lemme know what ya think. looks ok to me. fuel pressure is holding up. i was a little worried about it. the car feels great, spools very fast and boost hits good and strong.

judging by when you actually went Full throttle everything looks fine. you aren't stuck in open loop as douge suggested because I see it gets out shortly after you punched it and your STFT went to 0 then. (where your throttle goes to about 70+) i suggest logging more from 3k-6.5k. you're afr's also look just fine.

one thing that may help with getting the LTFT to 0 quicker is changing your closed loop delay tables and closed loop load and throttle tables.

 

[buttons]

doesnt afr seem a little lean when he first gets into it? its like 13.xx for 1.5-2seconds after mashing the throttle

 

[bova80]

its not going to drop instantly, and he has no knock so i don't see a problem. but my guess is its because his closed loop max load is set a little higher then it should be so it might still use the higher afr's. i say just change those tables and give it a shot, should be good.

 

[Mistersix]

A couple quick things about your log that concern me. I don't see APP recorded, so can I assume you had it to the floor for this entire log? If so, you're getting stuck in closed loop (Your LTFT's do not zero out until row 21). Also, your AFRs are too lean until you get to just before 4,000 RPMS. They drop after that when your STFT's zero out, and your AFR's drop to the mid-11s where they should be. Compare your OL/WOT No Knock table A (rpms vs AFRs) to you corresponding RPM & AFRs in this log, and you'll see what I mean. looking at it again, it looks like you dipped into WOT around row 15 or 16 judging by your TP%, and your AFRs were only lean for a couple rows. Next time, log APP (Accel Pedal Position) so we can see exactly where you dip into WOT, and how quickly. We'll also have a better idea of what your AFRs are actually doing. Everything else looks good though. Keep an eye on fuel pressure though.. my stock pump was holding about the same PSI as you, but if fizzled out, and start dropping off to like 1,000 PSI at redline within like 6 weeks of getting the AP, and going to a stage 2 tune.

thanks for the feedback guys. yeah i was slowly dipping into WOT in that pull. i like to see the change over point(CL/OL). so i dont think its getting stuck in CL. that one was pretty short and i only revved to 6k. i'm gonna do another and go a little deeper as bova suggested. 6.5k?!

thanks for the heads up on the FP. thats my concern. is that it suddenly stops holding pressure as well as it used to. i intend to keep an eye on it. as soon as it shows me something funky, its getting replaced. so if that thing wants to keep its job, it better not even twitch or its gone.(hah)

 

[dougefresh_]

its not going to drop instantly, and he has no knock so i don't see a problem. but my guess is its because his closed loop max load is set a little higher then it should be so it might still use the higher afr's. i say just change those tables and give it a shot, should be good.

You can get it to drop instantly... I actually figured out how a couple months ago, lol. My AFR's at dip in would dangle around 15ish for a row or two before they started hitting their targets. I did a write up about it, but only Forzda commented, and that was on the second way more complicated theory. So, ignore that word doc unless you want a headache, and just click on the excel file in this link:

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123771300

I explain what is going on, what I changed, and proposed a theory as to why it works based on Stock & OTS mapping with the OL/PT table. I now have my OL/PT throttle table staggered, but the excel file sums it up nicely. I am hitting my OL/WOT AFRs one row BEFORE my FT's zero out... not two rows after Happy reading!

 

[bova80]

i know you can get it to drop instantly, but he rolled into it so its not going to drop instantly that way. i have all my stuff set perfectly, here are 2 logs i did about a month ago on the highway, datalog6 is 4th gear and datalog7 is 4th gear and 5th with flat foot shifting.

edit: found this one, think its a third gear pull - datalog3

 

[buttons]

Sorry for needless bump, but now that my car has relearned the stage 2 tihfucai 93 map it runs like a ***** ape. OOOo how i missed my cobb ap! 0 knock so far too, *knock on wood*

just excited and wanted to share.

 

[Mistersix]

Sorry for needless bump, but now that my car has relearned the stage 2 tihfucai 93 map it runs like a ***** ape. OOOo how i missed my cobb ap! 0 knock so far too, *knock on wood*

just excited and wanted to share.

ha, thats good news. you gotta change that avatar though, i keep thinking your zinger.(crazy)

 

[dougefresh_]

Sorry for needless bump, but now that my car has relearned the stage 2 tihfucai 93 map it runs like a ***** ape. OOOo how i missed my cobb ap! 0 knock so far too, *knock on wood*

just excited and wanted to share.

Nice! Congrats dude, I'm glad it's running great! I was out of mine for 18 days a couple months back and it sucked, lol.

i know you can get it to drop instantly, but he rolled into it so its not going to drop instantly that way. i have all my stuff set perfectly, here are 2 logs i did about a month ago on the highway, datalog6 is 4th gear and datalog7 is 4th gear and 5th with flat foot shifting.

edit: found this one, think its a third gear pull - datalog3

Those look great. Why do you think your LTFT's became active breifly in log 7, rows 2-8? You're calc load values are huge, so there's no way you dipped below the CL Max Load C table? I'm not saying you were not in OL, but that is just weird.

I currently have a tuning mess on my hands, lol. I'm running a modded version of Forzda1's map, which is targets boost, not load. I upgraded to a Perrin EBCS and set it up in interrupt mode. Problem is, I ordered the rectangular one everyone has, and I got the new Perrin Pro instead (old one discontinued... they're just launching this). Forzda's set up and mine are very similar, but the new style EBCS was being weird... for example, on the subbies, etc.. they only had to decrease wgdc by like 2%, which is like no change really. Forzda left his WGDC table almost completely OTS when he upgraded to the Perrin (rectangular 'normal' one) and hits his boost targets perfectly. The only thing he added was 15% wgdc at 7K (he likes to up those revs, lol). So it is very strange that I had to reduce my wgdc by 13% from 81-100 TPS and 3,500 RPMS to redline. I was still a bit over my 20 PSI targets, but the Perrin quit out last week. I'm hoping it was just a faulty solenoid that is causing this issue (otherwise I have quite a bit of tuning ahead of me).

The good news is I'm working with Perrin on this, and I convinced Jeff Perrin to make a plug that us MS3/6 people can use so we don't have to splice any wires (I dismantled the Perrin plug to pull out the wire intact, and not have to splice, which is a PITA). So, he's just waiting on my plug cap to come in, and then he's shipping it out. I talked to him tonight, and he said they are going to make this for us So now, you're not limited to the Grimmspeed EBCS as your only plug n play option. I know you don't care bc your stocker works great iirc from another thread, lol. You're lucky. Mine sucked, and so do a lot of others. My car obviously isn't tuned right yet (I only cut 4 maps before she died... then my fuel pump died last week too!), but my boost is waay smoother than it was with the stocker.

So the good news is, the new Perrin Pro will have a factory plug. The bad news is, it may take you some time to tune it right. The worst news is, my poor car is sitting in parking lot with no fuel pump, and an ebcs that is out of commission. I attached an ugly log from before the ebcs stopped working. Boost is still a bit high, she's running pig rich, and I got the highest KR I've ever seen!! LOL I'm not worried about it running rich right now... that's easy. I want to get that boost perfect first.

 

[bova80]

probably become active due to the flat foot shifting. i'll have to look at my tune and see what the closed loop max load is there, but its only .6 so no big deal and the stft are still 0.

 

[dougefresh_]

probably become active due to the flat foot shifting. i'll have to look at my tune and see what the closed loop max load is there, but its only .6 so no big deal and the stft are still 0.

It's def no big deal, I was just curious. I forgot about the FFS... not sure how that impacts things... some people have issues with AFRs post shift with FFS, and others (like me) get better AFRs during FFS, lol. That max table C peaks at like 1.7 or 1.8x iirc (stock and OTS), and you're way above that the whole time. Like you said, no biggie... just wondering why our ECU's do weird s*** with the LTFT's under WOT. I've seen them become active a bunch of times when people's calc load is lower than the CL Max Load C table, but a couple (MS3... make lower calc load) were targeting their OL/WOT AFRs perfectly, without the LTFT's zeroing out at all! Now that was some weird s***, lol.

EDIT: I sometimes don't want to follow certain MS3 tuning stuff too closely... the fwd/awd obviously have different tq requests, etc.. that could impact timing and a bunch of other things. They're pretty damn close.. but I'm curious as to how the MS3 vs MS6 ECU's differ... they have like 2 or 3 tables we do not... one is fuel enrichment, and I forget the other one or two. I can't wait to get a car that is tuner friendly, and all the tables are known and defined. Would make tuning it a joke. This thing stinks.

 

[bova80]

here are my closed loop max load tables:

Table A 500-7000rpm
2.00 2.00 0.94 0.88 0.75 0.57 0.56 0.50 0.38 0.31 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00

Table B
2.00 2.00 0.94 1.00 0.88 0.81 0.68 0.56 0.50 0.37 0.31 0.00 0.00 0.00

Table C
2.00 2.00 0.94 0.88 0.75 0.57 0.56 0.50 0.38 0.31 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00

Table D
0.45 0.45 0.45 0.45 0.45 0.45 0.45 0.45 0.30 0.20 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00

All of my max throttle tables are set to 75 across the board and my exit delay A table is 15 while B and C are 40.

 

[buttons]

ha, thats good news. you gotta change that avatar though, i keep thinking your zinger.(crazy)

Fine...

I finally did some data logs last night, my LTFT are 0's during WOT but around 20% its -8.74 sometimes. WOT AFR is 11.32

 

[dougefresh_]

here are my closed loop max load tables:

Table A 500-7000rpm
2.00 2.00 0.94 0.88 0.75 0.57 0.56 0.50 0.38 0.31 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00

Table B
2.00 2.00 0.94 1.00 0.88 0.81 0.68 0.56 0.50 0.37 0.31 0.00 0.00 0.00

Table C
2.00 2.00 0.94 0.88 0.75 0.57 0.56 0.50 0.38 0.31 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00

Table D
0.45 0.45 0.45 0.45 0.45 0.45 0.45 0.45 0.30 0.20 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00

All of my max throttle tables are set to 75 across the board and my exit delay A table is 15 while B and C are 40.

Tables A, B & D look OTS. You really cut C down quite a bit. I'm pretty sure that is the table the ECU uses under WOT. I may reduce that table as well later on if necessary. I haven't messed with tables A or B, and I'm not sure when they come into play. I also think the D table is used to keep you in OL during WOT shifting. I've see LTFT's come active for a row if you shift too slowly, and calc load drops below 45. I cut those in half.

I can't wait to get this car tuned so I can focus on other stuff :/

 

[blacksin]

Hey guys, I switched over to the Stage 1 + SF 91 OTS map. I've been rolling on the map for 300+ miles, and I reset my MAF sensor when I installed the SF intake. I've cruised around for the first 200 miles without going WOT. I don't have any knock @ WOT, but I'm sometimes seeing some knock at very low RPM with low throttle.

I've attached two logs. Is it normal to have 3.15 degrees of knock at 1827 RPMs with the accelerator pedal down 14.04%? I know the MS6 does knocky things for fuel economy, but that seems excessive...

 

[FORZDA 1]

.....I've attached two logs. Is it normal to have 3.15 degrees of knock at 1827 RPMs with the accelerator pedal down 14.04%? I know the MS6 does knocky things for fuel economy, but that seems excessive...

Your MAF cal is off. Your AFRs are too lean, much leaner than the CL tables, so cal the MAF sensor and try again.....

 

[Mistersix]

there's a lot of ltft correction going on there. because like forzda said, your maf cal is off. your a/f's are fine since the ecu is probably in CL so it targets stoichiometry of the fuel your using.

but to your question. i dont know for sure about this part throttle/low rpm knock being normal. i've never datalogged that before. because CL is gonna do what its target values tell it to do, i only worry about OL during WOT pulls.

whaddaya mean "reset my maf sensor"?