Clinton or Obama

[Pickles]

Economy - How is Barack and Hillary getting rid of tax breaks going to help that? Also, how is a socialistic healthcare system going to help that AT ALL? Their economic policies will ruin us, while they claim to be "helping the working class." How are more earmarks and their history of giving money away for frivolous things going to help us AT ALL? Both these candidates have proven themselves to be fiscally unresponsible with OUR money.

As I remember, the current conservative administration has raised spending more than any other administration.

Gas prices are normal, and actually really good globally - With increased demand comes more costs to the manufacturer, which passes down to us. Oil companies work on profit margins, always have, they are not ripping us off. If you want cheaper gas don't vote Democrat.

If you want cheaper gas, vote for anyone you want. Although a good regulation of gas prices, as some dems have dictated, might be a helpful start.

Taxes - What exactly would Clinton or Obama's new policies do to that? Do you even know their stances on tax policy? Please explain if you do, cause I do my research, and you could be mistaken.

Removing tax cuts for the most affluent classes, and closing loopholes for corporations which remove jobs from the US and then claim our corporate tax protections.

Illegal immigration costs us more than the war in Iraq. Why are you not concerned about that over the war in Iraq? This effects you more at home than the war. Our economy is suffering because of the costs of illegals. They are ruining the lower income job market here, taking jobs away from hard working citizens.

WHAT? Iraq costs us $2,000,000,000.00 every day. When you can find ANY numbers like that for illegal immigrants, we'll talk. Is immigration a problem? Sure. And our economy is suffering because the current administration cut revenue and raised spending for BS programs...remember No Child Left Behind?

Plus in Iraq we are doing more than bringing democracy to the Middle East, we are securing our livelyhood for the future.

How is creating an exponentially higher number of terrorists securing our future?


Man, I can't believe some of you people are actually voting. It hurts me to see this kind of unintelligent voting.

Oh, and just FYI - I AM the middle income guy with a wife and kid at home that these candidates are supposedly supposed to be "helping"

How has the current admin "helped" you? How will McCain do that more than either of the dems?

 

[Pickles]

If you want your vote to mean nothing at this point, Vote for Ron Paul. Nuff said.

fixt

 

[Roywhitep5]

i vote for turd sandwhich

 

[Pickles]

Then I guess we should get rid of the democrat controlled congress also since their approval rating is lower than the presidents?

Meh, that's for congress as a whole.

 

[Knox Joe]

As I remember, the current conservative administration has raised spending more than any other administration.

Our country has grown. With growth comes increased spending.

Look at how many earmarks the Dems are including on every bill for frivolous stuff. It's kind of hard for a country to not spend when we have so much B.S. spending from both sides.

Also as soon as this "universal" healthcare from either candidate goes into effect we're all going to be paying for it. From our wallets, to the quality of our healthcare in general.

Faccism is not the way to go. That is not who we are supposed to be. If you don't know the true meaning of faccism look it up, that is slowly the type of country we have become.

Although a good regulation of gas prices, as some dems have dictated, might be a helpful start.

Uh, you don't know what happened when they tried that 30 something years ago, do you?

Removing tax cuts for the most affluent classes, and closing loopholes for corporations which remove jobs from the US and then claim our corporate tax protections.

Tax cuts for wealthy people increase their spending which helps our economy. Tax cuts for businesses keeps the COG low. Would you rather have more of the jobs here, but have the item costs a lot more?

WHAT? Iraq costs us $2,000,000,000.00 every day. When you can find ANY numbers like that for illegal immigrants, we'll talk. Is immigration a problem? Sure. And our economy is suffering because the current administration cut revenue and raised spending for BS programs...remember No Child Left Behind?

IRAQ – THE MEXICAN INVASION AND THE ECONOMY

MoveOn.org has teamed up with John Edwards and other moonbat activist groups to create a public awareness campaign. This $20 million campaign's sole purpose is to promote the perceived link between the war in Iraq and the weakening U.S. economy.

It is being called the Iraq Campaign 2008, and it will include advertising, anti-war events, and lobbying efforts to end the war. There will also be a $750,000 "Bush Legacy Bus" that will tour the country. This bus will have an exhibition of Bush's "greatest hits of the failure of the Bush administration" including the war, Hurricane Katrina, the economy, and healthcare. The bus will stop in front of offices of legislators who supported Bush's policies.

And as for the message ... Elizabeth Edwards says that if the economy is your number one issue when you go to vote, the war should be number one too because there is a connection between the two.

Hold on a minute here. What about illegal immigration? What about the Mexican invasion? How much money are we spending dealing with the millions of illegals that people like MoveOn.org and the Edwards family have welcomed into this country with open arms?

The fact is illegal aliens cost our economy more every year than does the Iraq war. Try $338 billion a year! Here is a series of links to stories that will detail the cost.

$11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year. http://tinyurl.com/zob77
$1.9 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens. http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html
$2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens. http://www.cis.org/articles/200/fiscalexec.html
$12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English! http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
$17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
$3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
$90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare and Social Services by the American taxpayers.
http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html
(Link not active ... was not able to verify this information)
$200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two-and-a-half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html
During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin and marijuana, crossed into the U. S from the Southern border. Homeland Security Report. http://tinyurl.com/t9sht
The National Policy Institute, estimated that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period. http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/pdf/deportation.pdf
In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin. http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm
'The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States. http://www.drdsk.com/articles.html#Illegals
Total cost is a whopping... $338 BILLION A YEAR!!!

How is creating an exponentially higher number of terrorists securing our future?

Oil.

As much as I hate to say it, we need to secure the ME so we don't have terrorists and crazy dictators controlling our oil, and so we can keep all the rest of the oil producing countries "in check" by being in close proximity.

How has the current admin "helped" you? How will McCain do that more than either of the dems?

Well, tax breaks for the wealthy has brought down the costs of most consumer goods, that was nice. But then the left side raised taxes so much on our resources like food and gas that it didn't even matter.

Also the GOP is trying to protect us from the Islam invasion. I have read the Quran in many different translations (not completely, but about half) and I'm sorry but there are stories, beliefs, and core principles in there I disagree with.

I am not Christian either so don't try it. There are stories and principles in the Bible I don't agree with.

The Quran and Islam in general needs updating, and too many of their believers will not sway from the original ideas.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7264903.stm Good read on why Islam needs updating for modern times.

I'm not voting McCain or either Dem or Rep so I have no idea what you're talking about on that one.

There is no candidate for me. I thought I made that clear.

My whole point is everyone I have encountered that like these two, ie. the general public, is completely stupid and have no idea what their policies are, or how they vote on issues, and it's wrong and unfair for them to cast an uneducated vote.

The media has far too much control over this country, and I believe they are going to control who wins.

 

[ForceFed]

OMG..Once again.. a simple political question getting out of control.

Carry on..I know you will anyway.

 

[Killer]

Knox Joe...It is not "Our Oil".

 

[Killer]

LMAO This is the kind of BS the Clinton machine manufacturers. 60 min a couple weeks ago interviewed some blue-collar, middle-class types in Ohio... many of which voiced the same types of concerns about Obama. (along with him being a Muslim and other nonsense.) Kroft tried to correct them but they seemed set in their thinking.... Unfortunately (for those who like the idea of a fair election) that was a microcosm of what's going on across the country. The unimformed majority (of undecided/swing voters) believe this crap (as referenced above)

No offense dude but... you need to get your facts straight. The 'real' piece of BS that go ponied about was that he didn't put his hand over his chest during the pledge of allegiance. (that someone, just like a game of phone in grade school I suppose) turned into him not standing for the national anthem. lol

In reality... he stood for and placed his hand on his chest for the pledge... but took it off for the national anthem. (while hillary and richardson kept it on) THIS is the photo that circulated and, naturally, the Clinton machine turned it into something it was not.

So don't believe the BS... get the facts before making a judgement.

(werd)

 

[Killer]

well like i stated my opinion and untill you can show me some hard core evidence where he isnt standing i will not belive it. either way his step father is a radical (after checking my facts it says he is a mild muslim) muslim and his dad left him at a young age, so his step father i would assume had a hand in raising him now im not saying that if his step father was a radical obama would too but im saying that some of those view points had to wear off on this child. i mean we are all intitled to have our own opinion and mine will not change on obama or "billery" for that matter.

Congrats...you get the bigot of the thread award!(moon)

 

[Killer]

BTW - I'm voting for Obama.
I will not vote for Hillary.
If forced, I'll vote for McCain.
Hillary is just too divisive. The last thing this country needs is another divisive president.

:ditto:

 

[SeR_Cyclops]

wow im not even going to post in this thread any more i cant belive how you cant even vioce your own opinion, lol i will never be caught dead voting for ANY democrat in the 08 election, their is no good canidates running this year for either party i really like huckabee but he didnt make it but who knows i still might be able to vote for huckabee as a running partner.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp
and i stand corrected on the standing for the pledge.

 

[CHICO2003]

opinions are more than welcome. If everyone shared the same view than this world would be quite dull. But spewing bigoted falsehoods isn't stating one's opinion... it's stating something else that (one would hope) you'd rather not be.

 

[Knox Joe]

Knox Joe...It is not "Our Oil".

Sorry, the oil our American companies intend to buy, refine, and sell.

There's a bigger reason to not drilling our own reserves here in our own country yet, and it's not the environment I can assure you of that.

 

[Pickles]

Our country has grown. With growth comes increased spending.

Look at how many earmarks the Dems are including on every bill for frivolous stuff. It's kind of hard for a country to not spend when we have so much B.S. spending from both sides.

Also as soon as this "universal" healthcare from either candidate goes into effect we're all going to be paying for it. From our wallets, to the quality of our healthcare in general.

Faccism is not the way to go. That is not who we are supposed to be. If you don't know the true meaning of faccism look it up, that is slowly the type of country we have become.



Uh, you don't know what happened when they tried that 30 something years ago, do you?


Tax cuts for wealthy people increase their spending which helps our economy. Tax cuts for businesses keeps the COG low. Would you rather have more of the jobs here, but have the item costs a lot more?



IRAQ THE MEXICAN INVASION AND THE ECONOMY

MoveOn.org has teamed up with John Edwards and other moonbat activist groups to create a public awareness campaign. This $20 million campaign's sole purpose is to promote the perceived link between the war in Iraq and the weakening U.S. economy.

It is being called the Iraq Campaign 2008, and it will include advertising, anti-war events, and lobbying efforts to end the war. There will also be a $750,000 "Bush Legacy Bus" that will tour the country. This bus will have an exhibition of Bush's "greatest hits of the failure of the Bush administration" including the war, Hurricane Katrina, the economy, and healthcare. The bus will stop in front of offices of legislators who supported Bush's policies.

And as for the message ... Elizabeth Edwards says that if the economy is your number one issue when you go to vote, the war should be number one too because there is a connection between the two.

Hold on a minute here. What about illegal immigration? What about the Mexican invasion? How much money are we spending dealing with the millions of illegals that people like MoveOn.org and the Edwards family have welcomed into this country with open arms?

The fact is illegal aliens cost our economy more every year than does the Iraq war. Try $338 billion a year! Here is a series of links to stories that will detail the cost.

$11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year. http://tinyurl.com/zob77
$1.9 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens. http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html
$2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens. http://www.cis.org/articles/200/fiscalexec.html
$12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English! http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
$17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
$3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
$90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare and Social Services by the American taxpayers.
http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html
(Link not active ... was not able to verify this information)
$200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two-and-a-half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html
During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin and marijuana, crossed into the U. S from the Southern border. Homeland Security Report. http://tinyurl.com/t9sht
The National Policy Institute, estimated that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period. http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/pdf/deportation.pdf
In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin. http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm
'The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States. http://www.drdsk.com/articles.html#Illegals
Total cost is a whopping... $338 BILLION A YEAR!!!






Oil.

As much as I hate to say it, we need to secure the ME so we don't have terrorists and crazy dictators controlling our oil, and so we can keep all the rest of the oil producing countries "in check" by being in close proximity.


Well, tax breaks for the wealthy has brought down the costs of most consumer goods, that was nice. But then the left side raised taxes so much on our resources like food and gas that it didn't even matter.

Also the GOP is trying to protect us from the Islam invasion. I have read the Quran in many different translations (not completely, but about half) and I'm sorry but there are stories, beliefs, and core principles in there I disagree with.

I am not Christian either so don't try it. There are stories and principles in the Bible I don't agree with.

The Quran and Islam in general needs updating, and too many of their believers will not sway from the original ideas.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7264903.stm Good read on why Islam needs updating for modern times.

I'm not voting McCain or either Dem or Rep so I have no idea what you're talking about on that one.

There is no candidate for me. I thought I made that clear.

My whole point is everyone I have encountered that like these two, ie. the general public, is completely stupid and have no idea what their policies are, or how they vote on issues, and it's wrong and unfair for them to cast an uneducated vote.

The media has far too much control over this country, and I believe they are going to control who wins.

I'll just respond to the economic stuff here....

Spending - Our country has not grown THAT much. To justify that, we'd have to have grown to almost 600 million people here...not even close. The repub administration and congress, for 5 years, outspent that growth considerably. Face it, the republican party can no longer be called the small gov't party.

Oil - the problem with oil 30 years ago was due to an embargo, not gov't controls on big oil income.

Corporate/affluence taxes - 50 years ago, I would have agreed with you. But that's not the case anymore. These entities/people are not expanding business, as they used to, they are pocketing the income or paying dividends to their shareholders, not injecting money in to the economy. I will agree that small businesses generally follow this, but they are not trying to evade US labor rates and take those corporate tax protections at the same time, either. Nothing would likely change for them.. It's the big companies who will be affected.

 

[SeR_Cyclops]

man if i dont want to vote for someone that is my opinion i mean i can vote on any facts i want and a I AM NOT RACIST i have many hispanic and muslim friends but i just do not think obama would make a good president but man i mean im not here to make you all change your minds its none of my business but i am just voicing my opinion. it might have came across wrong because on the internet its hard to show proper emotions with just a few letters with out hearing the tone of voice and expressions on my face.

 

[Knox Joe]

I'll just respond to the economic stuff here....

Spending - Our country has not grown THAT much. To justify that, we'd have to have grown to almost 600 million people here...not even close. The repub administration and congress, for 5 years, outspent that growth considerably. Face it, the republican party can no longer be called the small gov't party.

Our country has grown that much. We're not talking just about populous here there are many other things to take into account. You should be smarter than that.

People are the only thing that costs money? That could increase spending?

I could list a bunch of crap, but you're smart enough to get the picture.

Oil - the problem with oil 30 years ago was due to an embargo, not gov't controls on big oil income.

Not talking about the embargo, I'm talking about the Govt' actions to try and fix it. They didn't work. They can't control the oil companies, or our gas supplies without complicating it even further.

Corporate/affluence taxes - 50 years ago, I would have agreed with you. But that's not the case anymore. These entities/people are not expanding business, as they used to, they are pocketing the income or paying dividends to their shareholders, not injecting money in to the economy. I will agree that small businesses generally follow this, but they are not trying to evade US labor rates and take those corporate tax protections at the same time, either. Nothing would likely change for them.. It's the big companies who will be affected.

So if a busniess can make goods cheaper and create more wealth for their investors and employees it's bad?



Hmmm, communism/socialism/faccism at it's best.


Won't those shareholders and employees with more money spend even more of their EARNED money on our economy. It seems to me if a companies investors, and employees have more money they'd spend more money.

You didn't answer my question;

Would you rather have the COG go up, and have more of the labor done in country?

When the COG goes up all it does is create a bigger gap from lower middle class to upper class from what history shows.

 

[Donas64]

opinions are more than welcome. If everyone shared the same view than this world would be quite dull. But spewing bigoted falsehoods isn't stating one's opinion... it's stating something else that (one would hope) you'd rather not be.

When flipstylex said that it was good that I wasn't going to get a chance to vote, no one except Knox Joe Batted an eyelid. I can't wait till I can vote so I can cancel out the vote of people such as him.

i guess ur better off in the sidelines (nailbyt) Since u think bush is actually better than these 2 candidates, read up on your facts plz .

 

[Donas64]

man if i dont want to vote for someone that is my opinion i mean i can vote on any facts i want and a I AM NOT RACIST i have many hispanic and muslim friends but i just do not think obama would make a good president but man i mean im not here to make you all change your minds its none of my business but i am just voicing my opinion. it might have came across wrong because on the internet its hard to show proper emotions with just a few letters with out hearing the tone of voice and expressions on my face.

I don't think you're a racist at all and I know how hard it is to convey emotions and even ideas sometimes over the internet. Its a favorite tactic for certain groups (not mentioning any names) to label people as bigots or racists when someone says something that they don't agree with while since they themselves belong to this group are free to spew all sorts of venom about other.

Case in point, Jerry Falwell never condoned the homosexual lifestyle. He considered it an abomination. But one of his good friends and a member of his church was gay, he would never turn someone away in need even if they were gay. He just didn't agree with that lifestyle.

When he died, I heard several members of the gay community say some of the most vile, hateful, dark, twisted and un-speakable things about him. But since they were gay, thats justified. Nothing that Falwell said about homosexuals that I can recall was as twisted as some of the things I heard them say about him.


As a black male married to a white female, I have problems with Obamas pastor or former pastor and his exclusive "black values system" which seems exclusive and runs against the idea of coming together that obama represents. Is my wife not welcome in his church because she is white?

I also have problems with his association with William Ayers and the weather underground whose group was responsible for bombing the pentagon, declaring war against the us and were essentially home grown terrorists yet Obama's campaign manager says they are friendly.

Not saying Obama is a terrorist (because he's not) or even that he's a bad guy (because I don't believe him to me) but I think that these are questions that should be answered directly I would even consider casting my vote for him (which I would not)

 

[RaiderH8r89]

(no)the term "racist" is very loosely used these days... it is a simple solution to many peoples' problems and is used in the "blame game" for a lot of ignorant folks out there... racism is too commonly used as an excuse.

*NEWS FLASH* not every person who is against illegal immigration is racist!
not every person who passed the SATs is a racist... i could go on and on- it just makes me sick when people call me a racist for having a confederate flag on my quad and 5th wheel~

It is not a symbol of slavery now nor in the past. It is NOT a symbol of HATE nor RACISM. It represents the; "rights of the southern states to determine their own future; economic and political; in accordance with the Constitution."

(2thumbs)but i let people think whatever they want to think... people need to get their facts straight on what "racism" really is... i'm not racist, i just hate everyone equally... lol(usa)

 

[CHICO2003]

man if i dont want to vote for someone that is my opinion i mean i can vote on any facts i want and a I AM NOT RACIST i have many hispanic and muslim friends but i just do not think obama would make a good president but man i mean im not here to make you all change your minds its none of my business but i am just voicing my opinion. it might have came across wrong because on the internet its hard to show proper emotions with just a few letters with out hearing the tone of voice and expressions on my face.

One's opinion on something is based on things. Those 'things' can come in many guises. Hopefully they're facts. If so, that person's opinion is then derived from the truth. They may disagree with someone else (who also has the same exact information) but that person undoubtedly has legitimate reasons of their own.

Let me give you an example. Since this is a car forum... I'll veer away from politics for a second. The Toyota Camry... one of, if not the best selling cars in America. Why is it so popular? (Here come the facts) Reliable, well-built, holds resale value, blah blah blah... These types of things are not opinions they are facts. One cannot dispute them.

But does that mean everyone has to love the car? Of course not. Maybe you're not some milddle-aged middle-management type with 3 kids that needs sensible transportation and doesn't give a s*** how boring it might be. For you this car is perfect. But if you're some boy racer type... yeah, not so much. Each person has an opinion of the car based on facts. There's nothing wrong about it.

But if that same middle-management dude was under the assumption that Toyota was crap... and that he'd be in the service dept more often than not, he wouldn't want to buy one. His needs demand a reliable vehicle. Where he got these 'facts' from is anyone's guess. It's obviously inaccurate information but, because perception's reality, that means nothing. He believes what he believes (even if it's BS) and his 'opinion' is thus altered.

Bringing things back full circle. You're getting defensive about your "opinion" of Obama being questioned. What you're not realizing is that nobody's getting on you about having an opinion that (according to the poll) doesn't reflect the majority... it's that you're (according to your own posts at least) basing your opinion on inaccurate information. You think Toyota makes bad cars and that Obama is a Terrorist-Muslim who hates America and only wants to bring it down. lol kidding about that last part of course... but hopefully you get the idea.