Why is my ES so...SLOW?

[Rac3rX]

Personally I like 4-1 design better.

When thinking about a header thinh 4-2-1 Mid range power gains (Great for V-Tec's who have dick squat for torque, especially down low before V-tec kicks in) HOWever the FS DE actually make pretty decent Torque, but dooesnt briing it super high in the rpm's (because of no V-tec) to make as much hp out of that torquue thhat a V-Tec would. Soo because we have no lack of low end torque, improvements in the top end will be more benificial.

4-2-1 design doesnt make more power then 4-1, 4-1 makes more power and makes its gains higher up in the rpm's (Thats how) at the sacrafice of a few ponies down low. 4-2-1 design makes less power gains, & it makes its gains more twords the mid range, however it doesnt have as much of a hurt on the low end.

4-1 flow more as the nature of the design (Only going through 1 set of colectors as aposed to 3) Understand how the torque curve works, all before peak is where the cylinders have more then enough time to fill, increase flow and this will move the peak higher in the rpm's, efectively giving you more power at higher rpms but too much flow in the lower end.

Fortunatly when accelerating hard the rpms dont usually drop to below the torque peak (Or not much below, remember we are NOT talking about the hp)

Unfortuanatly if your auto X'ing on tight short tracks iit migh have you a little boggie, however...

When putting in 4-1 headers, its good to accompany it with a UDP, to ballence it out a bit, that should take care of any down low losses and bogginess.

In the end the 4-1's will generate more Power (Peak)

 

[YelloTerbo5]

I'm sorry but after being in the Protege world for awhile now, the only way that you are going to make respectable numbers is by going turbo. If you want to be fast N/A... Buy a K series Honda. Our cars just were not made to be a quick N/A car period. I tried once to stay natural at one point, and was not happy with it so I sprayed it. After spraying it, I still was not happy. Seriously if you want to be anywhere in the relm of being "quick", buy a turbo setup. If you want to be fast, you better have a deep pocket. I am not trying to bash anyone by this post, but I thought that this just needed to be cleared up.

 

[Rac3rX]

Im confused, why do people think there needs to be clarificatin that a Turbo will make the car faster then N/A? DUH!!!!!


He wants his car to be a little quicker, not a track killer, so c'mon, get of this TURBO TURBO TURBO TURBO TURBO TURBO TURBO TURBO TURBO TURBO TURBO TURBO TURBO TURBO TURBO TURBO TURBO TURBO TURBO Trip, and grow up! Yeah no kidding a turbo wil lmake it go faster.

What does one persone Not being satisfied with a Hp level and going bigger to satisfy there own desires, have to do with somebody elese and there desires? Do you automatically think they have the same priorities that you do, and or the same goals or use of there vehicle? YEAH RIGHT!!!!!!! I cant beleve you give your opinion without reading the thread enough to understand the jist of it, as clearly you didnt as you would of understood his goal is not to be crazy fast, or even considered "Fast" you would know, he just want to be faster. Enlight of this whats your point?

Im so sick of the T-Asses who come bomb on the N/A guys just trying to enjoy there ride for what it is. Yeah we know its not a porche GET OVER IT!!!!!!... These guys are Losers with a biger monthly

However Cheaper? WTF is that nonsence? Number 1 there isnt enough $$$$ to make the N/A fully loaded motor as fast as the same block fully loaded with a turbo. So we cant talk about built to the same power (we have to be relitively speaking), so we have to compare the 2 builds to the potention of what it is (FI & N/A). You mean to tell me you actualy beleve that it will be more expensive to fully build a N/A FS DE then a Fully Build a Boosted FS DE? You do know a Turbo requires more parts ALOT more part right?

AHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[drivethruecp]

I think hes looking for a little direction,and not a FULL planned out build.

To answer your question

First off I will have to agree, that mods on a N/A engine bassically work arround freeing up the breathing of the engine & they will all work best together. However like myself I would assume your working with a budget and plan to get parts as you can afford them.

Ill give my opinion and sugestions, I would have a goal of arround 130 to 135 whp (based on what youve been explaining you wanta)

Motor mounts.

for this kind of power incerts all arround

arround 100$ for all 4 awr.com & rr-racing .com have them

You already have the intake (cai will be more powerfull, but the SRI safer, you choose)

Exhaust

Contrary to what some have said in this thread the reg Pro exhaust is NOT completly the same as the MSP. I hope everybody understands an exhaust is only as good as the point with the most ristriction. You can have uber flow before or after but there will always be that bottle neck. the Muffler and exit pipe are some SERIOUS bottle necks & swaping them for even just the MSP axl back makes improvements in the flow & this in turn benifits the other mods.

Sooo I sujest a Mid pipe with a high flow cat (or catless if you prefer) as the mid pipe is another area of needless ristriction inthe system.

Arround 200$-300$ MAM used to make them but they areclosed (I think they are closed) there is another place that makes them (a tad more expensive though)

Of you can get a High flow cat, flex pipe and get a garage to fab up one for you, but you will have to ask them for the cost.

& a Axl back system (Get a bolt on kit)

This can be expensive dependig the rout you go

I sugest eBay, where you can get a used MSP axl back for arround 200$ (The Stealership will ask for arround 500$)

Headers

Grab some OBX headers off eBay for 200$

UDP Under Drive Pulley.

the headers hook you up up high, but rob you a bit down low, this will ballance that out a bit so the low end wont be so crappy after the headers are put in.

they also make improvements through the entire rpm range. They dont really generate more power but reduce the loss of power from the engine to the wheel.

The tough part is the Cams

There is a groupe buy for some hot Cams, Im not sure but they look expensive for the set (Arround 500$)

You can get blanks machened to the H9 (J-spec Cam) Cam specks

Or hope to find somebody with one selling them as Mazda doesnt make them anymore.

The MP3 ECU can be thrown in at any time and will be benificial, They are a b**** to find depending on whre you are.

This would be a start, and put you in the right direction, if your not satisfied up to this point, then Turbo would be the only way to go

If you like the launch har a stage 2 clutch might be in order, and if you putting that in there is no reason to not put in a Lightened flywheel.

there are alot of other things you can do along the way, this is pretty RAW

Remove the VITC and port polish the intake manifold (Hell I would sugest that too)

& ......Engine Management.

That sounds like a VERY good plan man! Can I get an explanation on a UDP and what it does for your car as well as the motor mounts?

And thank you Rac3rX for understanding about the whole not wanting a turbo thing (bang) and for the lengthy and very informative and intelligent explanations! Not to say others haven't contributed a lot to this discussion. Just read the posts first and realize this is NOT ABOUT A TURBO, nor will it ever lead to it! I appreciate the car as N/A like Rac3rX clearly understands. Glad to know people even with a turbo already can understand where I'm coming from.

 

[YelloTerbo5]

Alright so if you want to take this into another aspect, take the Honda world for an example. Yes there have been many cars that have been built with the same amount as a turbo car that are running the same general times, but then again they have much more aftermarket support and a platform than we do. Go ahead and try to build an N/A FS series motor that will run along with lets say CWILL. Good luck with the R&D that you will have with this engine. I am not trying to turn this into a little bash as so as you seem. I understand that many of the people on here are trying to make their cars a little quicker but do not have the money to do so. When it comes down to it if you want to make this engine respectable, you need to go down the route of forced induction. Sorry if I turned tables on this posting, but I am just posting what I feel is right and will not give anyone false ideas.

 

[drivethruecp]

Alright so if you want to take this into another aspect, take the Honda world for an example. Yes there have been many cars that have been built with the same amount as a turbo car that are running the same general times, but then again they have much more aftermarket support and a platform than we do. Go ahead and try to build an N/A FS series motor that will run along with lets say CWILL. Good luck with the R&D that you will have with this engine. I am not trying to turn this into a little bash as so as you seem. I understand that many of the people on here are trying to make their cars a little quicker but do not have the money to do so. When it comes down to it if you want to make this engine respectable, you need to go down the route of forced induction. Sorry if I turned tables on this posting, but I am just posting what I feel is right and will not give anyone false ideas.

OMG! I just want it a little quicker...I dont want it "fast" or whateva....dude...comon'....read the previous posts and you'll see thats not the point AT ALL.

 

[Rac3rX]

OMG! I just want it a little quicker...I dont want it "fast" or whateva....dude...comon'....read the previous posts and you'll see thats not the point AT ALL.

None blinder then those who refuse to see....

NP bro, I uderstand where your coming from. Im loving my N/A Protege for what it is, yes I do have plans for turbo once the car is paid, but m not going to be a punk and cry like a b**** about it untill it is, Im still going to enjoy her and take her far.

As far as N/A proteges being straight slow, Get over it, Ummm 14 second N/A P5 already, (And Im getting close to the same set up [cant wait for ems]) Noo its not an 11 second Boosted time, but.............

So 14 seconds N/A is alright for me until I get boosted


As for the UDP "Under drive Pulley" Basically its a new lightened up drive pulley (Every peice of weight save on that = hp at all points of the rpm range) it also SLIGHTLY underdrives the engine and suposedly that accouns for a few more ponies.

Because it gives its gains at all points of the rpms pretty evenly it generally restors whatever low end loss one whould receive from installing a 4-1 header, with a few ponies bonus everywhere.

Motor mounts are what hold the motor to the frame and the Proteges (all modles even the MSP) SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!!!

because they are so week there is ALOT of engine lash, and wheel hop, making driving a 3rd gen Protege smooth with stock mounts next to imposible.

Motor mounts & or motor mount incerts will cure the wheel hop. The Stiffer you go the less wheel hop thee is, but the stiffer you go the higher the increase of cabin vibrations, so its a real trade off, With the build Ive sugested, Motor mount incerts all arround would be just right.

Good luck on it.

 

[drivethruecp]

NP bro, I uderstand where your coming from. Im loving my N/A Protege for what it is, yes I do have plans for turbo once the car is paid, but m not going to be a punk and cry like a b**** about it untill it is, Im still going to enjoy her and take her far.

As far as N/A proteges being straight slow, Get over it, Ummm 14 second N/A P5 already, (And Im getting close to the same set up [cant wait for ems]) Noo its not an 11 second Boosted time, but.............

Are you implying I'm crying and bitching about it...? Cuz I'm not...I do realize I can only go so far...and I too am still paying off my car. Should I get the Headers, UDP or Motor Mounts First? Or in that order..

 

[Rac3rX]

Are you implying I'm crying and bitching about it...? Cuz I'm not...I do realize I can only go so far...and I too am still paying off my car. Should I get the Headers, UDP or Motor Mounts First? Or in that order..

Not at all dude, (Read the content of my post annd the nature of it, ONLY the first comment in my post was adressed directly at you and it was in agreance/responce to your last point "dude...comon'....read the previous posts and you'll see thats not the point AT ALL." My responce "None blinder then those who refuse to see") I hope that clears that up.


Im all about taking your car where your budget can (hell thats exactly what Im doing) Im up to swap s*** about my ride with you anytime.

Im implying that YelloTerbo5 is crying about N/A's being slow and only slow untill Boosted and Blah blah blah Terbo terbo terbo, not realizing that some of us dont have the same goals, intentions, plans, funds, ect as everybody else. Or that the Thread strater stated quite a ways back his goals, and if that were read, they would understand why these comments about boost boost boost are so out of context.

 

[Kansei]

Are you implying I'm crying and bitching about it...? Cuz I'm not...I do realize I can only go so far...and I too am still paying off my car. Should I get the Headers, UDP or Motor Mounts First? Or in that order..

I say get at least a front motor mount before you get the headers, don't want to have the engine move a ton abd break s***

But the headers, UDP, and MP3 ECU will gives you nice gains that you can definitely feel.

 

[Rac3rX]

I say get at least a front motor mount before you get the headers, don't want to have the engine move a ton abd break s***

But the headers, UDP, and MP3 ECU will gives you nice gains that you can definitely feel.

Yup, I totally agree, & I wish I had done this too.

Get the motor mount or incerts put in first thing, so as to not break anything.

 

[Kansei]

Yup, I totally agree, & I wish I had done this too.

Get the motor mount or incerts put in first thing, so as to not break anything.

They do make the idle and takeoff VERY rough, I'm still wondering whether it was worth it or not. I have the AWR 70duro front and RR Racing rear inserts.

 

[Rac3rX]

I got the RR-Racing incerts F & R, Only for a few weeks it was rough starting the car, at idle, and when starting from a stop slow. they broke in after a month or so, and feel pretty much like stock, only the car has a gentil vibe at idle (barely nticeable, I like it, but Grandma might be like "the car vibrates")

 

[drivethruecp]

Yeh, then I'll go with the motor mounts first...Is either brand better then the other?... Hey, a little off topic..but does anyone elses Protege's engine sound like a faint diesel or truck at idle? Mines pretty damn noisy!

 

[Kansei]

Yeh, then I'll go with the motor mounts first...Is either brand better then the other?... Hey, a little off topic..but does anyone elses Protege's engine sound like a faint diesel or truck at idle? Mines pretty damn noisy!

That's the VTCS system. It is a system of butterflies in the intake manifold that cause turbulance when the engine is cold to help it warm up faster and/or reduce cold start emissions. I removed the whole system (removed the butterflies/rod, sealed up holes, plugged the solenoid in still so that I don't have a check engine light.

I use an engine block heater anyway so VTCS wasn't turning on much... but yeah. The other way to turn it off without a check engine light is to get a Protege MP3 ECU.

 

[Rac3rX]

What you did was better by removing then, if you shut them off with the MP3 ECU they will still be there F-ing up flow,what you did gets rid ogf them all togethe, and give a keen oportunity to port out the intake maniforl (Im sure you did that too) I havnt done mine yet but its in the plans

 

[drivethruecp]

But I get the sound whether my engine is cold, warm, hot...its always noisy. I feel like maybe its not running right and theres something I need to do! The noise is even heard in the cabin, but I mostly have music on so never hear it. I just doubt it can be good to sound like this with 60k, it can only get worse....

 

[cplagge]

heres kindof a different question, will installing a turbo decrease engine life?

 

[drivethruecp]

heres kindof a different question, will installing a turbo decrease engine life?

Of course. I'm not sure how to explain it properly, so i'll leave that up to everyone else.

 

[GoProtege]

heres kindof a different question, will installing a turbo decrease engine life?

yes...The turbo adds alot of heat and power that the engine is not necessarily designed for. But as long as you take good care of the engine and don't go crazy on the boost, It shouldn't be too bad of a decrease. More than likely your tranny will go out before the engine. I've had my turbo for 2 years, engine is fine, tranny is almost gone. Just my $.02

~Jeff