Why is my ES so...SLOW?
- Thread starter drivethruecp
- Start date
this thread has a lot of good information in it, but please do not turn it into a pissing match....(not directed at anyone in particular)
now. if you are just looking for it to be a little quicker, and are on a tight budget, intake, header, exhaust will help you out. less than a grand and you'll be feeling it better. its still not gonna be fast, but it may make you happier.
if your looking for balls to the wall performance, then turbo is truely the only way to go. i'm not saying it can't be done with N/A but there is far more work to be done.
however, if you want more power than the stock MSP, then you may want to look at a full built block, which once again will run the numbers back up.
what range are you looking for?
now. if you are just looking for it to be a little quicker, and are on a tight budget, intake, header, exhaust will help you out. less than a grand and you'll be feeling it better. its still not gonna be fast, but it may make you happier.
if your looking for balls to the wall performance, then turbo is truely the only way to go. i'm not saying it can't be done with N/A but there is far more work to be done.
however, if you want more power than the stock MSP, then you may want to look at a full built block, which once again will run the numbers back up.
what range are you looking for?
PlatinumMSP
Member
- :
- Blazing Yellow 03.5 MSP
Kansei said:
thats not so true man, most of those NA upgrades will be useless once he goes turbo, header, exhaust, intake, all need to be changed
drivethruecp
Member
- :
- 2002 Mazda Protege ES
mp3wannabe said:
Thank you for that!!
I am bout to replace my AEM CAI since the filter is shot and want a short ram, whats your suggestion? I was going with this one http://mazda3online.web.aplus.net/product_info.php?cPath=21_31_45&products_id=81 but from the picture the bend looks like its a CAI?... I really don't want the "buzz' sound you get from an exhaust AT ALL, and was looking into an OBX header a while ago..(w/ spark plug anit-foulers & MAM midpipe??) But is pretty useless with a stock exhaust, no? Since its restricting the flow... (you can't take the cc off, can you..hah?) So I did do quite a bit of research then put it off for a while do to the lack of funds spent elsewhere. And yes, for now I am on a tight budget and just want it to be a little quicker without sacrificing the reliability and life of my engine...I don't mean to sound like a b****...but thats my mentality at this point; I'm still paying the ******* car off
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PlatinumMSP
Member
- :
- Blazing Yellow 03.5 MSP
dude you'll need a new downpipe for the turbo, not to mention you'll probably want a 3" exhaust for max power... bigger than 2.5" on an NA car usually loses power, an air filter is 30 dollars as opposed to the 200 dollars for the entire intake system, an no the exhaust isnt the same, it has the s and j pipes, the catback section is completely different too, not sure about the midpipe though
Yeah the ECU with a few other mods and you should feel alright, (If your not looking for POWER) If its POWER you want go Turbo. Im going as far as I can N/A then turboing this b****.
Ive beaten out a bunch of MP3's and Stock Vs Stock they arnt that much quicker, BUT when modded the gains should be better when coupled with the MP3 ecu as aposed to the Non MP3 ECU (With premium gas of course) Sooo with it, I should be faster simple as that, thats why shes been in my plans for quite a bit, But Im having trouble finding one (and matching it with a time my budget allows it)
Sugested mods to make your ES alright
MOTOR MOUNTS (Or Incerts) This is a MUST!!!!
J-Spec Cams
(H9 intake, + H9 re-pinned as an exhaust cam)
Intake + Exhaust line
Headers
UDP
MP3 ECU
You could get more but with that you should be feeling nice.
Ohh and lets keep in mind that STOCK, the MP3 will give about 10hp, but not 10whp
Maybe 5 of that makes it to the wheels, the benifits are more the the power band as a whole as aposed to peek.
Ive beaten out a bunch of MP3's and Stock Vs Stock they arnt that much quicker, BUT when modded the gains should be better when coupled with the MP3 ecu as aposed to the Non MP3 ECU (With premium gas of course) Sooo with it, I should be faster simple as that, thats why shes been in my plans for quite a bit, But Im having trouble finding one (and matching it with a time my budget allows it)
Sugested mods to make your ES alright
MOTOR MOUNTS (Or Incerts) This is a MUST!!!!
J-Spec Cams
(H9 intake, + H9 re-pinned as an exhaust cam)
Intake + Exhaust line
Headers
UDP
MP3 ECU
You could get more but with that you should be feeling nice.
Ohh and lets keep in mind that STOCK, the MP3 will give about 10hp, but not 10whp
Maybe 5 of that makes it to the wheels, the benifits are more the the power band as a whole as aposed to peek.
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yashart_mp3
Member
- :
- Black Mica MS3
"Gramma shifting, not double clutching like your spose' to"
^^ After you master those things, then go for a 100 shot of NOS. Just be careful not to blow the welds on the intake mani!
^^ After you master those things, then go for a 100 shot of NOS. Just be careful not to blow the welds on the intake mani!
yashart_mp3
Member
- :
- Black Mica MS3
Rac3rX said:
Your right, what he needs is the works
"Cool Air intake,
NOS fogger system
T4 Turbo
AIC Controller
Direct Port Nitrous Injection
And a stand alone fuel management system
Not a bad way to spend $10,000"
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drivethruecp
Member
- :
- 2002 Mazda Protege ES
PlatinumMSP said:
dude, I'm not getting a turbo, and don't plan on it. Thanks for all of the suggestions...but they can be biased if you think I intend on getting a turbo when I AM NOT. I don't want the CAI anymore, I had a scare one time when I hit a "black puddle" and almost sucked up a ******* stream durring a down pour. Is that AEM short ram air the real "short" one? Cuz like I said it looks like it is a CAI. Can someone post the link of a SRI
some questions on each above in "( )"Rac3rX said:
Whats the list of mods in order of importance and cost (NOT A TURBO or biased that I would one day get a turbo or NOS)? Thanks for all of the feedback and info!!! SERIOUSLY! (drinks)
Kansei said:
Thank god! I would be down for changing the headers but not really the exhaust.. I don't want to keep the intake, I really want to get a SRI. Or is there any reason I would want to def stick with the CAI?...
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the AEM is a true short ram. Ken at mazda3online wont steer you wrong. OBX header is basically the only way to go with the header. just as an FYI you may see it badged as "Forza" its identical, just has a vanity plate on it.drivethruecp said:
as far as exhaust goes, i have the Racing Beat cat-back. i personally love the sound. its deeper and louder than stock, but its not noisy. basically no freeway drone (unless your like me and drive 80+ on the freeway).
if you can find an mp3 ecu, its probably worth it. but remember the 10 hp it promises is CRANK horsepower. which equals out to like 5-7 whp. about the same as the header. (edit: just noticed this last little bit was posted above..)
PlatinumMSP
Member
- :
- Blazing Yellow 03.5 MSP
drivethruecp said:dude, I'm not getting a turbo, and don't plan on it. Thanks for all of the suggestions...but they can be biased if you think I intend on getting a turbo when I AM NOT. I don't want the CAI anymore, I had a scare one time when I hit a "black puddle" and almost sucked up a ******* stream durring a down pour. Is that AEM short ram air the real "short" one? Cuz like I said it looks like it is a CAI. Can someone post the link of a SRI
some questions on each above in "( )"
Whats the list of mods in order of importance and cost (NOT A TURBO or biased that I would one day get a turbo or NOS)? Thanks for all of the feedback and info!!! SERIOUSLY! (drinks)
Thank god! I would be down for changing the headers but not really the exhaust.. I don't want to keep the intake, I really want to get a SRI. Or is there any reason I would want to def stick with the CAI?...
you can always convert a cai to an sri, if you want to stay na.... get a full 2.5" exhaust, obx header, injen cai, unorthodox underdrive pulley, motormounts, and yeah you'll feel the difference for sure
PlatinumMSP
Member
- :
- Blazing Yellow 03.5 MSP
wait my bad, no exhaust and sri instead of cai? Dude your not going to make much power that way, your going to have to uncork your entire car to get the best gains... whats the point of a header if flow is going to limited by a restrictive exhaust. You still need to decide what your whp and wtq goals are for us to really help you out...
PlatinumMSP
Member
- :
- Blazing Yellow 03.5 MSP
mp3wannabe said:
agreed
I think hes looking for a little direction,and not a FULL planned out build.
To answer your question
First off I will have to agree, that mods on a N/A engine bassically work arround freeing up the breathing of the engine & they will all work best together. However like myself I would assume your working with a budget and plan to get parts as you can afford them.
Ill give my opinion and sugestions, I would have a goal of arround 130 to 135 whp (based on what youve been explaining you wanta)
Motor mounts.
for this kind of power incerts all arround
arround 100$ for all 4 awr.com & rr-racing .com have them
You already have the intake (cai will be more powerfull, but the SRI safer, you choose)
Exhaust
Contrary to what some have said in this thread the reg Pro exhaust is NOT completly the same as the MSP. I hope everybody understands an exhaust is only as good as the point with the most ristriction. You can have uber flow before or after but there will always be that bottle neck. the Muffler and exit pipe are some SERIOUS bottle necks & swaping them for even just the MSP axl back makes improvements in the flow & this in turn benifits the other mods.
Sooo I sujest a Mid pipe with a high flow cat (or catless if you prefer) as the mid pipe is another area of needless ristriction inthe system.
Arround 200$-300$ MAM used to make them but they areclosed (I think they are closed) there is another place that makes them (a tad more expensive though)
Of you can get a High flow cat, flex pipe and get a garage to fab up one for you, but you will have to ask them for the cost.
& a Axl back system (Get a bolt on kit)
This can be expensive dependig the rout you go
I sugest eBay, where you can get a used MSP axl back for arround 200$ (The Stealership will ask for arround 500$)
Headers
Grab some OBX headers off eBay for 200$
UDP Under Drive Pulley.
the headers hook you up up high, but rob you a bit down low, this will ballance that out a bit so the low end wont be so crappy after the headers are put in.
they also make improvements through the entire rpm range. They dont really generate more power but reduce the loss of power from the engine to the wheel.
The tough part is the Cams
There is a groupe buy for some hot Cams, Im not sure but they look expensive for the set (Arround 500$)
You can get blanks machened to the H9 (J-spec Cam) Cam specks
Or hope to find somebody with one selling them as Mazda doesnt make them anymore.
The MP3 ECU can be thrown in at any time and will be benificial, They are a b**** to find depending on whre you are.
This would be a start, and put you in the right direction, if your not satisfied up to this point, then Turbo would be the only way to go
If you like the launch har a stage 2 clutch might be in order, and if you putting that in there is no reason to not put in a Lightened flywheel.
there are alot of other things you can do along the way, this is pretty RAW
Remove the VITC and port polish the intake manifold (Hell I would sugest that too)
& ......Engine Management.
To answer your question
First off I will have to agree, that mods on a N/A engine bassically work arround freeing up the breathing of the engine & they will all work best together. However like myself I would assume your working with a budget and plan to get parts as you can afford them.
Ill give my opinion and sugestions, I would have a goal of arround 130 to 135 whp (based on what youve been explaining you wanta)
Motor mounts.
for this kind of power incerts all arround
arround 100$ for all 4 awr.com & rr-racing .com have them
You already have the intake (cai will be more powerfull, but the SRI safer, you choose)
Exhaust
Contrary to what some have said in this thread the reg Pro exhaust is NOT completly the same as the MSP. I hope everybody understands an exhaust is only as good as the point with the most ristriction. You can have uber flow before or after but there will always be that bottle neck. the Muffler and exit pipe are some SERIOUS bottle necks & swaping them for even just the MSP axl back makes improvements in the flow & this in turn benifits the other mods.
Sooo I sujest a Mid pipe with a high flow cat (or catless if you prefer) as the mid pipe is another area of needless ristriction inthe system.
Arround 200$-300$ MAM used to make them but they areclosed (I think they are closed) there is another place that makes them (a tad more expensive though)
Of you can get a High flow cat, flex pipe and get a garage to fab up one for you, but you will have to ask them for the cost.
& a Axl back system (Get a bolt on kit)
This can be expensive dependig the rout you go
I sugest eBay, where you can get a used MSP axl back for arround 200$ (The Stealership will ask for arround 500$)
Headers
Grab some OBX headers off eBay for 200$
UDP Under Drive Pulley.
the headers hook you up up high, but rob you a bit down low, this will ballance that out a bit so the low end wont be so crappy after the headers are put in.
they also make improvements through the entire rpm range. They dont really generate more power but reduce the loss of power from the engine to the wheel.
The tough part is the Cams
There is a groupe buy for some hot Cams, Im not sure but they look expensive for the set (Arround 500$)
You can get blanks machened to the H9 (J-spec Cam) Cam specks
Or hope to find somebody with one selling them as Mazda doesnt make them anymore.
The MP3 ECU can be thrown in at any time and will be benificial, They are a b**** to find depending on whre you are.
This would be a start, and put you in the right direction, if your not satisfied up to this point, then Turbo would be the only way to go
If you like the launch har a stage 2 clutch might be in order, and if you putting that in there is no reason to not put in a Lightened flywheel.
there are alot of other things you can do along the way, this is pretty RAW
Remove the VITC and port polish the intake manifold (Hell I would sugest that too)
& ......Engine Management.
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02PROTEGE2.0
Member
- :
- 1999 Audi A4 1.8t quattro manual
if u can get lucky and come accross one, i suggest finding the ractive header or saving up for the AWR 4-2-1.
just looking at those two structurely the way they are made opposed to the OBX, its easy to see how they would make more power, the obx goes from 4-1 almost at the same spot as the stock headers, right where the precat was.
however the Ractive is 4 pipes all the way to the mid pipe and the AWR is 4-2-1, also not c losing into one untill the mid pipe...
and just for clarifcation, the catback is the same on msp and sedan, only difference is muffler and midpipe. (midpipe has 2 cats on msp)
just looking at those two structurely the way they are made opposed to the OBX, its easy to see how they would make more power, the obx goes from 4-1 almost at the same spot as the stock headers, right where the precat was.
however the Ractive is 4 pipes all the way to the mid pipe and the AWR is 4-2-1, also not c losing into one untill the mid pipe...
and just for clarifcation, the catback is the same on msp and sedan, only difference is muffler and midpipe. (midpipe has 2 cats on msp)
