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What have you done to your P5 today?

pcb

The Diagram Dude
:
2002 MP5
Awesome !!

You may simply have enough built up crap to restrict the flow.

Here's some pictures of the EGR from my parts car.
I kinda forgot about it, and I completely forgot that it was a Canadian EGR. Lol
20210828_160748.jpg



20210828_160737.jpg


20210828_161433.jpg
20210828_162542.jpg
 
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pcb

The Diagram Dude
:
2002 MP5
It's the plunger shaft that is of most concern.

As far as I understand it, the EGR valve is closed at idle with no exhaust getting into the intake air until you're basically cruising, that's when the step motor pushes the valve open to let exhaust into the intake.

If the plunger shaft is all sticky, the tension on the return spring isn't enough to retract the plunger after the step motor backs off and your EGR is stuck open when the car tries to goes to idle and that's when everything goes to s***.
 

pcb

The Diagram Dude
:
2002 MP5
If you think that you may have the original EGR valve on your car then replacing the valve with a regular one might be a good idea.

Or, you could clean up what you've got and reinstall it, keeping in mind that you may have to clean it again, especially if that plunger shaft is worn, and fouls up easier now because it's worn.



I'm a cheap ass and won't spend money on my rust turd unless I've got an issue, but if that was me, I'd spend the ~$100 and replace it.



If you decide to clean and reinstall your EGR, I personally would remove the step motor from the valve and dunk the whole works in acetone.
Acetone even dissolves some plastics and rubbers.

There are no plastic or rubber parts on the valve or plunger.

You can also use Seafoam or brake cleaner.




I remember some guys were lubricating the plunger shaft, but I would advise against that.

Oil or grease is just something for the dirty/oily exhaust to condense on/stick to, and the oil/grease could burn/turn to lacquer with the hot exhaust gas hitting it.
 

BenjiHoggi

OEM+
:
Oregon, USA
:
22v Protege5
If you think that you may have the original EGR valve on your car then replacing the valve with a regular one might be a good idea.

Or, you could clean up what you've got and reinstall it, keeping in mind that you may have to clean it again, especially if that plunger shaft is worn, and fouls up easier now because it's worn.



I'm a cheap ass and won't spend money on my rust turd unless I've got an issue, but if that was me, I'd spend the ~$100 and replace it.



If you decide to clean and reinstall your EGR, I personally would remove the step motor from the valve and dunk the whole works in acetone.
Acetone even dissolves some plastics and rubbers.

There are no plastic or rubber parts on the valve or plunger.

You can also use Seafoam or brake cleaner.




I remember some guys were lubricating the plunger shaft, but I would advise against that.

Oil or grease is just something for the dirty/oily exhaust to condense on/stick to, and the oil/grease could burn/turn to lacquer with the hot exhaust gas hitting it.
I ended up cleaning it with brake cleaner and a little wire wheel on the end of a dremel and then reinstalling it. The valve was not stuck and it seemed to move decently well.

If I have more issues, I know I can get to it and replace it fairly easily in a couple of hours.

The biggest hassle with reinstalling it was finding a new gasket, which I had completely forgotten about before I started. I had to go to five stores. I will probably order three or four of them for cheap on RockAuto next time I make an order.

On another note, it's been a thousand miles since my last oil change and I'm only down about 30% on the dipstick. I also took my oil filler cap off and I don't feel as much blow-by as before. I wonder if my Rislone treatment before every oil change is helping clean things out and seal the rings better. I would tickled if so.
 

pcb

The Diagram Dude
:
2002 MP5
The valve was not stuck and it seemed to move decently well.

If I have more issues, I know I can get to it and replace it fairly easily in a couple of hours.

That's the key point. You are aware of the issue and know what to look for now.
You can sleep at night knowing what the issues are and know how to fix them.


I will probably order three or four of them for cheap on RockAuto next time I make an order.

Good idea. That along with wiper blades, spark plugs, oil filters, air filters, PVC valves, head light bulbs, signal and marker light bulbs, fuses,...

I used to be like a kid in a candy store when I checked out Rockauto.
Now I just buy what I need when I need it.

On another note, it's been a thousand miles since my last oil change and I'm only down about 30% on the dipstick.

Holy Crap !!
I go 3000 miles before an oil change and don't burn a drop of oil.
I never check my oil level.
That's probably why my dipstick isn't broken. Lol

Remember that the distance between the full mark and the low mark on your dipstick is exactly 1 liter...

I also took my oil filler cap off and I don't feel as much blow-by as before.

As far as I know, the compression rings have almost nothing to do with oil burning.
They seem to preform properly.

It's the oil rings that seize and let oil past them.
The oil rings have almost nothing to do with compression or blow-by gasses.

I suppose it's possible to have less blow-by if you have less gunk in there though ??

I wonder if my Rislone treatment before every oil change is helping clean things out and seal the rings better. I would tickled if so.

I don't know anything about Rislone, but it sounds like its working.

I use Seafoam but not before an oil change.
My engine is clean now so I put it in with the new oil and leave it in until the next oil change.

I don't know if you can do that with Rislone?
You may have to only use it as a quick flush if it has corrosive properties?

I'd suggest using cheap oil and changing it when it becomes dark regardless of mileage.

It's the dark crap that carbonizes on the piston oil ring drain holes and plugs them up.


20210627_185134.jpg



I use it in the gas too.
A shot of Seafoam with every fillup. It keeps the injectors clean and helps to keep the combustion chambers clean too.
 
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Speaking of oil and oil filters...

Yesterday morning, I went to replace the P5's knock sensor and before jacking up the car to do the sensor swap, I decided I should check the motor oil to see if the car might be using oil after I changed it about a month ago with about somewhere around 500-600 miles on it.

When I checked the oil level (with my "low profile" broken ring dipstick) it was right at the full mark (I might have used an ounce or two of oil at best as initially the oil level was slightly over-full by a couple of ounces (I had added some Seafoam to it).

While looking to access the knock sensor to see if I could get something on it to remove it (ended up using 24mm open-end wrench), I (reluctantly) saw that I had to remove the oil filter among other things.

When I took the oil filter off, I was expecting oil to pour out of it and run down my arm (the front end of the car was up on jack stands) and was surprised to see that the filter looked totally dry inside except for what little oil I rubbed on the filter's o-ring when initially installing it.

Initially, besides lubing the filter's o-ring, I pre-filled the filter with some oil (a few ounces) when first installing it about a month ago.

When removing the filter, it did feel as it had some weight or "heft" to it like the filter media had soaked some oil into it.

The last time I drove the car was the previous day so it seems odd that inside the filter appeared pretty-much bone dry.

The photos below are taken after removing the filter and tipping the filter upside down to see if anything would drain from it into a plastic container.
I wish I had taken one of the filter right after removing it.

As you can see, only a tiny bit of oil drained from it (maybe a teaspoon full) during the time I was finishing the installation of the knock sensor (at least 30 minutes).

When I bought it, the filter showed it fit the 2003 P5 2.0l when I bought it from Advance Parts store.

Anyone else notice a dry appearing oil filter when changing their oil?

Oil Filter1.jpg
Oil Filter2.jpg

Oil Filter3.jpg
 

BenjiHoggi

OEM+
:
Oregon, USA
:
22v Protege5
Speaking of oil and oil filters...

Yesterday morning, I went to replace the P5's knock sensor and before jacking up the car to do the sensor swap, I decided I should check the motor oil to see if the car might be using oil after I changed it about a month ago with about somewhere around 500-600 miles on it.

When I checked the oil level (with my "low profile" broken ring dipstick) it was right at the full mark (I might have used an ounce or two of oil at best as initially the oil level was slightly over-full by a couple of ounces (I had added some Seafoam to it).

While looking to access the knock sensor to see if I could get something on it to remove it (ended up using 24mm open-end wrench), I (reluctantly) saw that I had to remove the oil filter among other things.

When I took the oil filter off, I was expecting oil to pour out of it and run down my arm (the front end of the car was up on jack stands) and was surprised to see that the filter looked totally dry inside except for what little oil I rubbed on the filter's o-ring when initially installing it.

Initially, besides lubing the filter's o-ring, I pre-filled the filter with some oil (a few ounces) when first installing it about a month ago.

When removing the filter, it did feel as it had some weight or "heft" to it like the filter media had soaked some oil into it.

The last time I drove the car was the previous day so it seems odd that inside the filter appeared pretty-much bone dry.

The photos below are taken after removing the filter and tipping the filter upside down to see if anything would drain from it into a plastic container.
I wish I had taken one of the filter right after removing it.

As you can see, only a tiny bit of oil drained from it (maybe a teaspoon full) during the time I was finishing the installation of the knock sensor (at least 30 minutes).

When I bought it, the filter showed it fit the 2003 P5 2.0l when I bought it from Advance Parts store.

Anyone else notice a dry appearing oil filter when changing their oil?

View attachment 302651 View attachment 302652
View attachment 302654
So no oil leaked out even while you were unscrewing the filter? Seems odd, but could be fine.

When I've previously pulled off my oil filter, I've had the initial dripping of oil, but after that the filter appears to have oil still in it, but there is little or no 'loose' oil. Generally, when I leave the filter sitting upside down for a while, a good amount of oil ends up draining out after a while.

I'm not sure, can the engine even run properly if there is no flow through the filter? I'm assuming the engine cycles all of the oil through the filter quite quickly, yeah? Just trying to think of a logical explanation.
 

pcb

The Diagram Dude
:
2002 MP5
When I took the oil filter off, I was expecting oil to pour out of it and run down my arm (the front end of the car was up on jack stands) and was surprised to see that the filter looked totally dry inside except for what little oil I rubbed on the filter's o-ring when initially installing it.

Yeah, that's normal.
Oil filters have an anti-flowback valve in them to prevent them from draining out causing oil starvation when you first start your car.

Any excess oil in the filter will drain out with enough time sitting.
Our oil filter sits almost horizontal, so excess oil will drain.

I always have a bit of oil running out, but I change my oil after running the engine a while to stir up the oil.


When removing the filter, it did feel as it had some weight or "heft" to it like the filter media had soaked some oil into it.

That's how you tell if it's working.
If the used filter is heavy, it means its full of oil.

I remember cutting one open (because I like to know things work. Lol)

As soon as you punch a hole in the case, oil runs out.
 

pcb

The Diagram Dude
:
2002 MP5
I'm not sure, can the engine even run properly if there is no flow through the filter?

Yes it can, sort of.

There is also a bypass valve in the oil filter.

If the filter media fills up with crap, the filter media is bypassed through the valve.

I believe the valve opens up at 12 psi for our engine.
 
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Yeah, that's normal.
Oil filters have an anti-flowback valve in them to prevent them from draining out causing oil starvation when you first start your car.

Any excess oil in the filter will drain out with enough time sitting.
Our oil filter sits almost horizontal, so excess oil will drain.

I always have a bit of oil running out, but I change my oil after running the engine a while to stir up the oil.
And I didn't start the engine before removing the filter/sensor because I wanted to check the oil level in the car at it's level to the ground and "at rest" state.
That's how you tell if it's working.
If the used filter is heavy, it means its full of oil.

I remember cutting one open (because I like to know things work. Lol)
Thanks BenjiHogg and PCB - That makes total sense.
As soon as you punch a hole in the case, oil runs out.

Agree.
I guess my latest experience of that was on the wife's Civic where the oil filter tool wouldn't catch anymore to loosen the filter and I had use a long thin-bladed screwdriver and punching a hole through the entire filter to get it loose in order to break it free to remove it.

I've had to do that method many times in the past.

I admit I'm not the most "religious" person about changing oil on a rigid mileage based schedule. I'm more a "seasonal" weather-based kind of guy (weather I felt like changing it or not that day).

There is also a bypass valve in the oil filter.

If the filter media fills up with crap, the filter media is bypassed through the valve.
I believe the valve opens up at 12 psi for our engine.
So....If the filter is small or the wrong type (like the cheap one that was on the P5 from the last 5 minute oil place before getting the car) and the oil that came out was pitch black...
--OR--
because someone doesn't change their oil on a rigid or sensable interval (me guilty as charged), then the cruddy oil just keeps bypassing the filter media and can do bad things to the engine.

Like clogging up those few and tiny oil passage holes in the P5s pistons where the suspended dirt/combustion debris in the bypassed oil can act like sandpaper wearing out...err... just about everything it contacts in its flow path.

I guess maybe that's why the manufacturers of newer cars have those annoying "Maintenance Reminder" lights that serves a two-fold purpose.
--To get people to change their oil frequently and charge for doing other things (preferably at their stealerships) to continue the warranty.
--So they can avoid liability for later down-the road-problems (like the drug company's TV ads disclaiming their drugs adverse reactions to avoid class-action lawsuits).
 

pcb

The Diagram Dude
:
2002 MP5
And I didn't start the engine before removing the filter/sensor because I wanted to check the oil level in the car at it's level to the ground and "at rest" state.

You should wait at least 10 minutes after shutting off your car before checking the oil level.
It takes time for the oil to drain down from the head and into the oil pan, and oil from a running engine can splash up into the dipstick tube and give a false reading on your dipstick if it doesn't have time to drain out.


I had use a long thin-bladed screwdriver and punching a hole through the entire filter to get it loose in order to break it free to remove it.

I've had to do that method many times in the past.

Been there.
Done that.
What a messy PITA. Lol

I like the Fram oil filters.
They are dipped in grippy plastic on the end and are really easy to grab on to.

I admit I'm not the most "religious" person about changing oil on a rigid mileage based schedule. I'm more a "seasonal" weather-based kind of guy (weather I felt like changing it or not that day).

Regular 3,000 mile oil changes are critical for our engine if you don't want to start burning oil like a MOFO.

So....If the filter is small or the wrong type (like the cheap one that was on the P5 from the last 5 minute oil place before getting the car) and the oil that came out was pitch black...
--OR--
because someone doesn't change their oil on a rigid or sensable interval (me guilty as charged), then the cruddy oil just keeps bypassing the filter media and can do bad things to the engine.

Yes.

Like clogging up those few and tiny oil passage holes in the P5s pistons where the suspended dirt/combustion debris in the bypassed oil can act like sandpaper wearing out...err... just about everything it contacts in its flow path.

Exactly.
The dirt acting as sandpaper is bad enough, but it's the crap in the oil that turns it dark, and goes right through the oil filter media that carbonizes and turns to lacquer in the oil drain holes of the pistons.

I guess maybe that's why the manufacturers of newer cars have those annoying "Maintenance Reminder" lights that serves a two-fold purpose.
--To get people to change their oil frequently and charge for doing other things (preferably at their stealerships) to continue the warranty.
--So they can avoid liability for later down-the road-problems (like the drug company's TV ads disclaiming their drugs adverse reactions to avoid class-action lawsuits).


A lot of new cars have transmission fluid that lasts the life of the transmission.

What they don't say, is that not changing your transmission fluid drastically reduces the life of the transmission.

That way both the transmission and it's fluid get replaced at the same time, so you buy a new transmission or a new car.

It's good for the economy.
 

pcb

The Diagram Dude
:
2002 MP5
Cool !!
I never thought of that.

I wonder if it is also good for removing oxidizing because I've got parts and the burnt orange oxidizing is waaayyy cheaper than crap.
Lol


20210902_200702.jpg



It probably does dissolve rust ?
 
I guess my latest experience of that was on the wife's Civic where the oil filter tool wouldn't catch anymore to loosen the filter and I had use a long thin-bladed screwdriver and punching a hole through the entire filter to get it loose in order to break it free to remove it.
FWIW, in 30yrs of doing oil changes, you cannot go wrong with a light bead of fresh oil on the new filter, hand tighten, then slightly back the filter off. I had a battle with an oil filter from my first oil change from a new-to-me Saab 9-5 (I was a VW guy, then a Saab guy, and now a Mazda/Mercedes guy) where the screwdriver method actually tore the oil filter. I had screwdrivers, channel locks, and hammer/chisel - but got that damn thing off.

because someone doesn't change their oil on a rigid or sensable interval (me guilty as charged), then the cruddy oil just keeps bypassing the filter media and can do bad things to the engine.
The ONLY common factor between high mileage vehicle owners across all marques is regular oil changes. For perspective, I purchased my 1994 Saab 9000 Aero at 150K miles and put another 150K on it with synthetic oil changes (never noticed any leaks from the oil), my 1984 VW Jetta GLi was purchased at 120K miles and sold at 305K miles, my 1982 VW Rabbit was purchased at 90K miles and sold at 185K miles.
 
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pcb

The Diagram Dude
:
2002 MP5
She doesn't pollute though and doesn't burn a drop of oil.

Screenshot_20210903-010322_Gallery.jpg


That was 10 years ago when they sniffed the tailpipe, then they plugged into the OBDII port, now they don't even check.
But I still don't burn oil...



The mechanic came out with a big smile on his face and said that he thought his sniffing machine was broken.
He was getting readings of zero.

He had to run the test twice to finally get a reading.

The air coming out my tailpipe was cleaner than the air going in the intake.

I was allowed 150 PPM of hydrocarbons idling at the curb.
I had none.

I passed. Lol 😆
 
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