transmission

[thecrash91]

Hey Guys,
Got another problem that I really need help fixing/diagnosing. I am looking for the cheapest fix, because I am currently living in my friends empty apartment until I get enough money to get my own, and I finally got enough money but them my transmission decided to s*** out on me...
Heres my issue: Whenever I drive in 3rd gear it sounds as if the gear isnt fully engaged, by that I mean that it grinds while driving in 3rd, almost like teeth chattering. It also does the same noise in all other gears, but nowhere near as loud as it is in 3rd. The car still drives perfectly fine, it does NOT grind when I put it into gear, so it is definitely not syncros. I checked the fluid level today and it was perfect, right at the bottom of the fill hole threads. The sound also seems to be speed dependent, and by that i mean the faster i go the louder it sounds. if i cruise in 1st or 2nd at 10mph I cannot hear the grinding at all. but once you get to 20-25mph you start to hear it, then when you shift into 3rd the sound is very loud, and then gets softer when you go into 4th and 5th, but definitely louder in 4th and 5th then in 1st and 2nd. guessing because of the lower speed. please help!!

 

[PSUENGR]

could the gears be missing some teeth?

 

[thecrash91]

i dont think so, i never grind my gears. what other symptoms would i experience? like i said the grinding continues in all gears, so that could be the pieces grinding, but then why would 3rd act normally outside of the noise? i can still accelerate just fine in 3rd, no jerking or hesitation or whatnot.

 

[Cleverfrog]

could the gears be missing some teeth?

+1

Just because you have seamless acceleration doesn't mean you have all the teeth on a gear. It could be missing parts of a tooth or teeth.

 

[njaremka]

if its not gear dependent, and truly speed dependent, it is likely the diff. could also be the counter shaft... best way to tell would be to pull the transmission, and start tearing it apart. if it needs to be rebuilt, you would have to do that anyway. and, it will be cheaper to have the work done if you remove it from the car. (as opposed to having the shop remove the gearbox)

 

[thecrash91]

I don't even have my own place to live, so doing the work myself is out of the question. I highly doubt it's my diff, as its only loud in third gear. At first it only made noise in third, now it's making a very very faint noise in all gears but third Is still the same. Sounds like maybe a tooth or two or a few got loose and they're jingling around in there. The sound is very very very similar to the sound of a turbo turbine hitting the housing. But I know 100% it's not my turbo.

 

[StealthWyvern]

Whatever it is thats causing your issue driving it more surely isn't helping it.. could be chunks of metal making its rounds inside the trans and tearing up more s***...

 

[thecrash91]

Yeah, I know that. But I have a job and no other way to get to it, and without a job I have no cash without cash I have nothing. So I'm skipping 3rd for now. Found a 626 transmission for cheap, gonna snag that and find the shop that'll swap it for the least amount of money. Then hopefully I can rebuild this one in my spare time or send it to be rebuilt. Or part it out.

 

[thecrash91]

How many labor hours do you guys think I'm lookin at here? It would just be a tranny swap, no other work done. I'm not looking for exacts, and I won't hold it against you if you're wrong. I really just have no idea how much I should be lookin to spend.

 

[StealthWyvern]

How many labor hours do you guys think I'm lookin at here? It would just be a tranny swap, no other work done. I'm not looking for exacts, and I won't hold it against you if you're wrong. I really just have no idea how much I should be lookin to spend.

250 bucks... should be the same labor as a clutch job just about.

 

[thecrash91]

Does anybody know if I need to tell the shop anything special about the 626 tranny swap? I know the speedo will be different, but how is it different? Anything else I should know to tell the shop before I do this? Thanks for all the help guys, I really appreciate it.

 

[thecrash91]

Just got quoted at 350 for the swap, but the guy said if i swapped the diff it would be an extra 3 hours of work... does this sound right to you guys? i thought the diff just popped right out once you cracked the case?

 

[Installshield 2]

^i'm pretty sure all the shafts/gears/forks need to be removed to get the diff out of the case...its not a ton of work, as the shafts and gears do not need to be further disassembled...but 3 hours does seem like a fair estimate...you could try arguing it should only take 2 hours, but, i haven't done it myself so thats just a rough guess...

the speedo shouldn't be a problem...its only trouble in reverse, i.e. trying to get a MSP gear box in a non-abs protege...your car runs the speedo off the abs system...so even if the 626 box/diff has the little ring gear, it won't hurt anything...just remember you're losing the LSD because of this...so swapping the diff, if your current one is in tact, isn't a bad idea...but like you mentioned, its an extra 3 hours of labor...

 

[thecrash91]

so the 98 626 trans should swap in with no problem even if i dont swap the diff? I was thinking of just leaving it open diff for now so i can open up my current trans and rebuild it, if not beef it up a tad and have a spare on hand. So just to clarify, i do not need to change anything about the 626 transmission, and the open diff should still provide speedo readings except in reverse? sorry if im repeating myself or things that have been said, i just want to be 100% sure before i drop my car off with the transmission.

btw i picked up the 626 tranny for 245, not bad if i say so myself!

 

[Installshield 2]

sorry, i don't know about reverse...i've actually never looked at my speedo while in reverse haha...All i can confirm is that every non-abs protege measures vehicle speed by a pink ring gear pressed onto the open diff...and a sensor mounts on the gear box. All MSP's have abs, and measure vehicle speed by the abs sensors on the wheel carriers...i can't confirm how it works with 626's...but i'd assume it was the same thing...you may even have bought a gear box from a 626 w/ abs...in which case it could be completely identical to yours just with an open diff...and no ring gear...

with that said...i'm assuming your 626 gear box swap will have no effect on your speedometer...the open diff will have a ring gear on it, but you won't have the sensor hooked up to anything...keep in mind, if your 626 doesn't have the speed sensor, you're going to have to plug that hole somehow...as the engine harness in your MSP doesn't have that sensor/wiring...

open diffs suck...but factory MSP LSD's (unless you're positive it was a revised unit) aren't a whole lot better...so i'd say your thoughts are accurate...one wheel around for a while while you upgrade your original box, and look into a Mfactory diff or something to really finish it right...

 

[thecrash91]

The tranny thats in there now was put in 2 years ago, i bought it off the forums, it had 60k miles and a welded revised LSD, so it was a pretty nice tranny. So i think this 626 tranny will only be temporary until i can figure out and fix whats wrong with the real MSP tranny. So now i understand what youre saying, the 626 tranny has an extra sensor that i dont need, and thats all I have to tell the shop. I just got quoted at another shop they said itd be around 425 after they put in new axle seals and tranny oil, you guys think thats fair? I was going to pick up my own tranny fluid and bring that, what about the axle seals? since i replaced it only 2 years ago, do i need new seals? or is that something you do everytime you remove the axles from the tranny?

 

[Installshield 2]

its very hard to remove the axles from the diff case without destroying the seals...so a new set of seals is pretty much mandatory...its doubtful they'll hold after removing and re installing the axles...

425 for the gear box and diff swap? Or just swapping over the box? Seems a little high, but not sure about labor rates in your area Shops around me quoted $325 for a clutch install if i supplied all the replacement parts...which is actually a little more work...

 

[thecrash91]

Yeah, im going to call a couple other shops, so should i buy the seals ahead of time so im only paying labor? what else should i buy ahead of time to avoid having to pay anything but labor costs?

 

[thecrash91]

and that 425 was just tranny swap, no diff swap.

 

[StealthWyvern]

Yeah, im going to call a couple other shops, so should i buy the seals ahead of time so im only paying labor? what else should i buy ahead of time to avoid having to pay anything but labor costs?

and that 425 was just tranny swap, no diff swap.

Some shops wont install brought in parts just so you know.