Super Matty P
Banned
- :
- 2003 Supercharged Protege5
p.s. It's not my job to give forgiveness for sins...it Jesus'. Bush needs to take his actions up with him.
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Time Mag POTY 1938-Hitler 2004-Bush
- Thread starter Micah
- Start date
True, but you got my point. Should G.W. need forgiveness that is not for you or I to decide.Super Matty P said:p.s. It's not my job to give forgiveness for sins...it Jesus'. Bush needs to take his actions up with him.
BTW - I am not a practicing Christian...
Huh?slug420 said:and.....awful
i dunno im listening to an interview right now... this guy refuses to make the rich pay a dime. He wants to have money managers and let people invest in Social Security? Why dont just lift the law that says if you make more then 90k a year you dont have pay... if we lift that then SS would have pently of money... and the ones that rely on it dont have to worry about making false investments and pay high fees. Arent we all supposed to stand together? i guess not when it comes to opening your wallet...
The man is just a fool... I mean iraq election? why dont we get them to stop shooting everyone first.
The man is just a fool... I mean iraq election? why dont we get them to stop shooting everyone first.
Super Matty P
Banned
- :
- 2003 Supercharged Protege5
Corwin, social security is in a much greater decline than you think. It's not going to help to put tax money into it...it needs to be thrown away and a better plan created.
I don't know the exac numbers but it's something like:
in 1970 social security had 7 people paying into the pot for 2 people to live on ..... today there is 4 people paying into the pot for 7 people to live on.
We've outgrown our resources. Thats why you hear the word "reform" used so much. this isn't Bush's fault it's been a problem for 20years. Believe me if I could blame it on Bush I would but it's been around before him.
I don't know the exac numbers but it's something like:
in 1970 social security had 7 people paying into the pot for 2 people to live on ..... today there is 4 people paying into the pot for 7 people to live on.
We've outgrown our resources. Thats why you hear the word "reform" used so much. this isn't Bush's fault it's been a problem for 20years. Believe me if I could blame it on Bush I would but it's been around before him.
no no i know its not his fault i was just listening to his solutions and they dont make any sense... he wants people to INVEST in it... meaning people that need it could still end up poor and they would have to pay fees to money managers and the risk is you can invest and make nothing. I know it been a big problem but if taxed the millionares just like we do the rest of americans then there wouldnt be such a problem.
i just dont like his solutions... he slowly keep cutting more taxes for the big guys. Its like they are in a VIP club. Forget trying to raising a happy family, we need to be rich and unhappy and then well get thousands back!
i just dont like his solutions... he slowly keep cutting more taxes for the big guys. Its like they are in a VIP club. Forget trying to raising a happy family, we need to be rich and unhappy and then well get thousands back!
Corwin, you hit the nail on the head. The fact that people who make over $80k don't have to pay SS fees is simply ridiculous, why isn't this being considered? The whole deal with creating private accounts is silly too, by investing SS funds into stock market we're basically giving corporations even more power, yeah what could possibly go wrong with that? (Enron, MCI, etc...) Matty you make a good point that demographics play a role in the problems with Social Security, although your numbers are quite a bit off, however SS is the fundamental social safety net of our society and if we scrap it then it's pretty much going to be social Darwinism from now on, with Bush in office we're already heading in that directons.
Super Matty P
Banned
- :
- 2003 Supercharged Protege5
just fyi though guys....anyone making over $80K is 99% gauranteed to be fully vested in their own 401K or 403B retirement plan....they dont need SS. It's the little guys like us that need it.
fyi, I work for the nations largest/oldest 401(k) education companies in the US. It's our goal to ween people off SS and into their own money market funds.
fyi, I work for the nations largest/oldest 401(k) education companies in the US. It's our goal to ween people off SS and into their own money market funds.
Yea but you know what... its the old people that use social security and thats all they want at their and some are so stubborn thats all they're for is tax cuts and making sure they get their SS... So what does that mean? less education, shittier roads, and all that BS and then they complain when uneducated hodlums run around thier nieghbhorhood ******* s*** up so we put C.O.P. which is another gaint waste of money.
Its a trickle down effect, if we tax everyone equally (percentage wise) it would slove so many problems... I know more people living on no money and not taking goverment hand outs because they feel there are worse people that could use it. Why do think people sell drugs? Government doesnt touch that...
Its a trickle down effect, if we tax everyone equally (percentage wise) it would slove so many problems... I know more people living on no money and not taking goverment hand outs because they feel there are worse people that could use it. Why do think people sell drugs? Government doesnt touch that...
SS: as system that depends on a certain number of people putting money in for a larger number of people in the future, will naturally collapse. Population is growing, therefore, SS will eventually collapse. Especially with longer life expectancy.
This vitriole for Bush is amazing. Why the depth of hate? I see a man who puts forth a statement, and then follows through. What exactly has he done so wrong? He has accomplished quite a bit that has benefited this country and the world.
We are pulling out of an economic nosedive caused by an act of war and extreme tragedy.
We have (in two countries) simultaneously set a culture on the path to a successful self-governed future while removing a base of operations for a large portion of the terrorists actively campaigning against us.
In both of those things he saw the path ahead, remained steadfast in spite of some rather ridiculous claims. It is true that the inteligence turned out to be ultimately faulty, but a result, I believe, not of Bush lying to us, but of Saddam's cronies lying to the world.
Now those things have been mostly accomplished, we are moving on to a more domestic focused agenda, and the plans he has set forth are not only logical, but have worked so far.
Granted, I question the reach of the patriot act and other rather privacy-reducing measures.
So again, I repeat, what has he done so wrong as to arouse such hate?
Not like it was proved he lied (no matter what the claims), such as the previous president, nor has he shown such lack of character, nor personal judgement with interns. He has shown consistent integrity.
This vitriole for Bush is amazing. Why the depth of hate? I see a man who puts forth a statement, and then follows through. What exactly has he done so wrong? He has accomplished quite a bit that has benefited this country and the world.
We are pulling out of an economic nosedive caused by an act of war and extreme tragedy.
We have (in two countries) simultaneously set a culture on the path to a successful self-governed future while removing a base of operations for a large portion of the terrorists actively campaigning against us.
In both of those things he saw the path ahead, remained steadfast in spite of some rather ridiculous claims. It is true that the inteligence turned out to be ultimately faulty, but a result, I believe, not of Bush lying to us, but of Saddam's cronies lying to the world.
Now those things have been mostly accomplished, we are moving on to a more domestic focused agenda, and the plans he has set forth are not only logical, but have worked so far.
Granted, I question the reach of the patriot act and other rather privacy-reducing measures.
So again, I repeat, what has he done so wrong as to arouse such hate?
Not like it was proved he lied (no matter what the claims), such as the previous president, nor has he shown such lack of character, nor personal judgement with interns. He has shown consistent integrity.
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]First of all, many of these items are a natural response of a people facing a threat. We are a people who have been facing a threat.
1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
It seems to me this was done more by the masses, than by Bush, who did nothing more than a natural and believable response to the threats we faced. Again the nationalism was demonstrated by the people.
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
- there is an element to this which bothers me, but not too far, yet.
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
- how is this distinguished from any situation where someone has an identifiable enemy?
4. Supremacy of the Military
Disproportionate? Hardly. Our military is still downsizing. We are getting more pay, definitely, but in very small amounts (trust me, I get a military paycheck). The Air Force just went down another 25,000 people. Do you see people signing up in droves? Bush has stated that he will not initiate a draft, which was a response to a sourceless rumour on the internet.
5. Rampant Sexism
This is not the case. Legislation designed to maintain social structure as it is, which does not deny basic human rights to gays, does not fit this point. There is certainly no increase in male-dominance.
6. Controlled Mass Media
Um, the mass media is significantly and obviously anti-Bush.
7. Obsession with National Security
National security had an identifiable weakness. Our response has been fairly reasonable. There has been some impingement on privacy, I agree. The motivation has not been untoward, it has not been politically focused against any thing other than the specific enemy we are fighting. Granted, individual people have expressed a lot of anti-arab sentiment. But that has been true in any war ("japs", "krauts", now "towel-heads"). Nothing unusual here.
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined
Government and religion certainly have not increased in relationship. The removal the ten commandments from public properties around the country. Granted, Bush himself has professed a belief in God. I am a Christian, and no matter what leadership position I end up in, I will not pretend to have no faith. Bush has not pushed a national religion.
9. Corporate Power is Protected
A lot of people perceive this to be the case, and with a lot of presidents from the last few years, and far into the future, the power of corporations will naturally have a large effect on the political process. Plus, the Bush policies that allow corporations to flourish could be interpreted this way as well. However, take into account that people do not have jobs if corporations cannot flourish. Our economy is capitalism. That means basically that cash must move through the economy to sustain it. That cash comes from people who have money. How to people get money? Either they steal it, or they are paid by their employer. If a government stifles the corporations too much, their employess also suffer, and by logic, so does the economy.
10. Labor Power is Suppressed
This is a skewed view of the truth. Organized labor is not the enemy of fascism, but organized citizens. A big difference. Organized labor also induces an inefficiency of the economic system. While it can have positive effect when a labor force is oppressed, what happens when that labor force is no longer oppressed? Human nature takes over, and people get greedy, and want more power.
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
I haven't seen any indication of this. I personally believe that the monies given to intellectuals and the arts has been abused by many of those intellectuals and artists.
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment
This certainly has not happened.
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
No evidence of this either. Investigations into relationships between Halliburton and government officials have not brought anything to light (though definitely not in itself enough to prove there is nothing wrong here)
14. Fraudulent Elections
No proof of this either. While Florida was definitely a mess a couple years ago, numerous recounts continually held up Bush's win, not to mention the numerous reports of corruption in the process that helped the Democrats.
All in all, the only issues I perceive to be a problem are the ones of infringement of privacy.
Whew!(blah)
[/font]
1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
It seems to me this was done more by the masses, than by Bush, who did nothing more than a natural and believable response to the threats we faced. Again the nationalism was demonstrated by the people.
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
- there is an element to this which bothers me, but not too far, yet.
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
- how is this distinguished from any situation where someone has an identifiable enemy?
4. Supremacy of the Military
Disproportionate? Hardly. Our military is still downsizing. We are getting more pay, definitely, but in very small amounts (trust me, I get a military paycheck). The Air Force just went down another 25,000 people. Do you see people signing up in droves? Bush has stated that he will not initiate a draft, which was a response to a sourceless rumour on the internet.
5. Rampant Sexism
This is not the case. Legislation designed to maintain social structure as it is, which does not deny basic human rights to gays, does not fit this point. There is certainly no increase in male-dominance.
6. Controlled Mass Media
Um, the mass media is significantly and obviously anti-Bush.
7. Obsession with National Security
National security had an identifiable weakness. Our response has been fairly reasonable. There has been some impingement on privacy, I agree. The motivation has not been untoward, it has not been politically focused against any thing other than the specific enemy we are fighting. Granted, individual people have expressed a lot of anti-arab sentiment. But that has been true in any war ("japs", "krauts", now "towel-heads"). Nothing unusual here.
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined
Government and religion certainly have not increased in relationship. The removal the ten commandments from public properties around the country. Granted, Bush himself has professed a belief in God. I am a Christian, and no matter what leadership position I end up in, I will not pretend to have no faith. Bush has not pushed a national religion.
9. Corporate Power is Protected
A lot of people perceive this to be the case, and with a lot of presidents from the last few years, and far into the future, the power of corporations will naturally have a large effect on the political process. Plus, the Bush policies that allow corporations to flourish could be interpreted this way as well. However, take into account that people do not have jobs if corporations cannot flourish. Our economy is capitalism. That means basically that cash must move through the economy to sustain it. That cash comes from people who have money. How to people get money? Either they steal it, or they are paid by their employer. If a government stifles the corporations too much, their employess also suffer, and by logic, so does the economy.
10. Labor Power is Suppressed
This is a skewed view of the truth. Organized labor is not the enemy of fascism, but organized citizens. A big difference. Organized labor also induces an inefficiency of the economic system. While it can have positive effect when a labor force is oppressed, what happens when that labor force is no longer oppressed? Human nature takes over, and people get greedy, and want more power.
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
I haven't seen any indication of this. I personally believe that the monies given to intellectuals and the arts has been abused by many of those intellectuals and artists.
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment
This certainly has not happened.
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
No evidence of this either. Investigations into relationships between Halliburton and government officials have not brought anything to light (though definitely not in itself enough to prove there is nothing wrong here)
14. Fraudulent Elections
No proof of this either. While Florida was definitely a mess a couple years ago, numerous recounts continually held up Bush's win, not to mention the numerous reports of corruption in the process that helped the Democrats.
All in all, the only issues I perceive to be a problem are the ones of infringement of privacy.
Whew!(blah)
[/font]
Wow, thanks Justin, them's some nice words. I also hold xelderx's opinion in high esteem. Our contact, while limited, has definitely caused me to hold him in high respect as well.xelderx said:I think the argument for Bush being a tyrant is a stretch, but he is on the fascist end of the spectrum which does scare me. I try to find the middleground on everything and I enjoy listening to opinions from right to left. Glyph's opinions here deserve a high level of respect. I know him personally and he is an honest, intelligent, and every policy of the Bush Admin effects him in some ways more than the rest of us.
Getting all teary eyed...
Heres my problem with him...
Everything he says he pretty a streched truth. The war i feel was not needed. I think its is wrong the marines that protect the wells and risk thier lives are only getting paid a fragment of what the lowest man on the pole on the rig/well.
The whole reson we went to war was for Osama and Alkieda (sp?) but yet we seem to think he ran into iraq? please... alkieda has much bigger ties to Saudi and theres bigger troubles there, but hmm i wonder why we didn't go there. Hussien howerever seemed more important because of his WMDs that he most of quickly moved i suppose. I think hes reasoning behind this whole disarm thing is very crooked i mean you dont just say lets all disarm our weapons and say but you first... i mean come on. Iraq now yes the dictatorship but they were content, why not china? libya? korea? we seem to do a less damage there. More peace talks and so forth.
Then now all his tax breaks and so forth... hes "flip flopping" and says oh we have to put them back in. All theses people are looking for thier money as SS goes into the dumper more families are going to be screwed people arent going have any money and then it trickles down. How many people in this world dont have health insurance? Well taking even more money away from them isnt going to help; people arent going to see doctors and thier gonna jam up medical services taking 911 calls because that cant afford to go to the hospitals (let me tell you this already happens).
Then leaving people in charge to invest thier money? Do you know how many uneducated people live in the US? (which is sad on it own considering we have one of the easiet schooling) Think of all the money scams with old people with options like this. They get scammed already and now heres something they have to do to get thier pay day and oh well thier manged money isnt doing so well and they dont have s*** now. Well its going to cost the GOV even more money because we cant have all the sick and straving people... people need to live.
Then dont even get me start on how they get votes... cutting taxes here and there. You know what pays for our school education in FL? The ******* lotto... schools are so understaffed and underpayed its stupid. There are so many kids if they got the attention they needed they could have done so much better. They are lost to the streets... where those who dont get killed live amoungest another government. You know why we dont have more money in education? we needed more votes... and the elderly think oh i dont have kids i dont need to pay those taxes because well thats how we think for those in the higher income brackets. I dont use social security i dont need to pay those taxes. The whole system is corrupt.
Dont get me wrong, i love america but i cant help but be dissapointed.
Everything he says he pretty a streched truth. The war i feel was not needed. I think its is wrong the marines that protect the wells and risk thier lives are only getting paid a fragment of what the lowest man on the pole on the rig/well.
The whole reson we went to war was for Osama and Alkieda (sp?) but yet we seem to think he ran into iraq? please... alkieda has much bigger ties to Saudi and theres bigger troubles there, but hmm i wonder why we didn't go there. Hussien howerever seemed more important because of his WMDs that he most of quickly moved i suppose. I think hes reasoning behind this whole disarm thing is very crooked i mean you dont just say lets all disarm our weapons and say but you first... i mean come on. Iraq now yes the dictatorship but they were content, why not china? libya? korea? we seem to do a less damage there. More peace talks and so forth.
Then now all his tax breaks and so forth... hes "flip flopping" and says oh we have to put them back in. All theses people are looking for thier money as SS goes into the dumper more families are going to be screwed people arent going have any money and then it trickles down. How many people in this world dont have health insurance? Well taking even more money away from them isnt going to help; people arent going to see doctors and thier gonna jam up medical services taking 911 calls because that cant afford to go to the hospitals (let me tell you this already happens).
Then leaving people in charge to invest thier money? Do you know how many uneducated people live in the US? (which is sad on it own considering we have one of the easiet schooling) Think of all the money scams with old people with options like this. They get scammed already and now heres something they have to do to get thier pay day and oh well thier manged money isnt doing so well and they dont have s*** now. Well its going to cost the GOV even more money because we cant have all the sick and straving people... people need to live.
Then dont even get me start on how they get votes... cutting taxes here and there. You know what pays for our school education in FL? The ******* lotto... schools are so understaffed and underpayed its stupid. There are so many kids if they got the attention they needed they could have done so much better. They are lost to the streets... where those who dont get killed live amoungest another government. You know why we dont have more money in education? we needed more votes... and the elderly think oh i dont have kids i dont need to pay those taxes because well thats how we think for those in the higher income brackets. I dont use social security i dont need to pay those taxes. The whole system is corrupt.
Dont get me wrong, i love america but i cant help but be dissapointed.
Good points by all. Everything being said is helping me shape my own thoughts and it's hopefully all for the better. I believe that everyone loses when we start to just throw rocks at each other. I feel the need to express more precisely where I have problems with what is going on. Senor touched a good point talking about the other countries that could easily fit the "Iraq" profile. I feel that the US's "War on Terror" has much more important battles to fight in Saudi Arabia and Pakistan among other places. America is riding a high horse telling Iran to stop nuclear production while we turn a blind eye to Israel.
I'm also a little worried by the new cabinet that is being chosen. Colin Powell cannot be replace by Condi Rice. Period. Condi is smart, very smart...book smart. I'm not prepared to accept that she is the best person for the job...only that she is the person most loyal to the Bush Admin. Rumsfield has come under fire from our very own troops for his shortcomings and yet he is staying. I wish my employer rewarded incompetence like that. I wouldn't have to try so hard. The new nominee for Attorney General, Mr Gonzalez, was the ringleader of the new US policy to allow information gained from torture to be used in court. Hello...Geneva Convention? He was also the lead council for the CEO of Enron, AKA biggest Bush contribution. I was actually really suprised when I heard about Bernie Kerik. Somebody really forgot to do their homework on that one. Guliani is even appologizing. Too bad most of America thinks the nanny thing was the only problem.
Porter Goss, new CIA head honcho, sent out a memo that the CIA would not tolerate internal opposition to the Bush Admin's policy. Everything is perfect when there is no one around to tell you when you're wrong.
My problem isn't specifically with Bush, but the entire scope of those around him. The people that advise him and should be the voice of the people and the non-partisan voice of the nation are Bush loyalists. They will continue to cloud the truth.
I'm also a little worried by the new cabinet that is being chosen. Colin Powell cannot be replace by Condi Rice. Period. Condi is smart, very smart...book smart. I'm not prepared to accept that she is the best person for the job...only that she is the person most loyal to the Bush Admin. Rumsfield has come under fire from our very own troops for his shortcomings and yet he is staying. I wish my employer rewarded incompetence like that. I wouldn't have to try so hard. The new nominee for Attorney General, Mr Gonzalez, was the ringleader of the new US policy to allow information gained from torture to be used in court. Hello...Geneva Convention? He was also the lead council for the CEO of Enron, AKA biggest Bush contribution. I was actually really suprised when I heard about Bernie Kerik. Somebody really forgot to do their homework on that one. Guliani is even appologizing. Too bad most of America thinks the nanny thing was the only problem.
Porter Goss, new CIA head honcho, sent out a memo that the CIA would not tolerate internal opposition to the Bush Admin's policy. Everything is perfect when there is no one around to tell you when you're wrong.
My problem isn't specifically with Bush, but the entire scope of those around him. The people that advise him and should be the voice of the people and the non-partisan voice of the nation are Bush loyalists. They will continue to cloud the truth.
PMOY > POTY
http://www.playboy.com/playmates/pmoy/pmoy2004/ (dont click it at work, DUH!)
stop fighting
http://www.playboy.com/playmates/pmoy/pmoy2004/ (dont click it at work, DUH!)
stop fighting
okay, you make the statement, but what evidence do you have to back it up? It is true that the pay is not really there. But we don't do it for the pay. (obviously)SenorCorwin said:Heres my problem with him...
Everything he says he pretty a streched truth. The war i feel was not needed. I think its is wrong the marines that protect the wells and risk thier lives are only getting paid a fragment of what the lowest man on the pole on the rig/well.
Al Qaeda's base of operations was Afghanistan. That's why we went there. They were getting money from Saudi, and many other places. However, we did not have justification to invade Saudi, especially as we are on "friendly" terms. That is a cold reality of politics. Besides, Saudi was, at the very least, pretending to kick out terrorists, while Afghanistan's rulers, the Taliban, were openly harboring them. Big difference.The whole reson we went to war was for Osama and Alkieda (sp?) but yet we seem to think he ran into iraq? please... alkieda has much bigger ties to Saudi and theres bigger troubles there, but hmm i wonder why we didn't go there. Hussien howerever seemed more important because of his WMDs that he most of quickly moved i suppose. I think hes reasoning behind this whole disarm thing is very crooked i mean you dont just say lets all disarm our weapons and say but you first... i mean come on. Iraq now yes the dictatorship but they were content, why not china? libya? korea? we seem to do a less damage there. More peace talks and so forth.
As for China, Libya, and Korea, while they are threats, they have not openly harbored people who have attacked us, nor have they demonstrated that they are openly hostile with us. A fine line to draw, but it makes all the difference.
I have not heard he is reducing tax cuts. Is this true? While I believe that it is nice for people to have health insurance, it is not a right to every individual. Harsh, but true. That is a whole separate topic. People should not even count on SS. It is a failed system.Then now all his tax breaks and so forth... hes "flip flopping" and says oh we have to put them back in. All theses people are looking for thier money as SS goes into the dumper more families are going to be screwed people arent going have any money and then it trickles down. How many people in this world dont have health insurance? Well taking even more money away from them isnt going to help; people arent going to see doctors and thier gonna jam up medical services taking 911 calls because that cant afford to go to the hospitals (let me tell you this already happens).
You're kidding, right? The government knows better than individuals what to do with those individuals' money? You can't be serious. If people are stupid, that is their fault. Why should I put money into a system that will abuse, misuse, and waste my money? I will educate myself so that my money will work for me and my family. It will not cost the gov't more money if people learn to be self sufficient. Those people will learn to not rely on the government. Do you still go to your parents asking for money? or are you learning to live on your own two feet?Then leaving people in charge to invest thier money? Do you know how many uneducated people live in the US? (which is sad on it own considering we have one of the easiet schooling) Think of all the money scams with old people with options like this. They get scammed already and now heres something they have to do to get thier pay day and oh well thier manged money isnt doing so well and they dont have s*** now. Well its going to cost the GOV even more money because we cant have all the sick and straving people... people need to live.
There is definitely an issue there. Again, where Bush stands out is that he stands on his principles. He never wavered on where he stood. The same could NOT be said for his opponents.Then dont even get me start on how they get votes... cutting taxes here and there. You know what pays for our school education in FL? The ******* lotto... schools are so understaffed and underpayed its stupid. There are so many kids if they got the attention they needed they could have done so much better. They are lost to the streets... where those who dont get killed live amoungest another government. You know why we dont have more money in education? we needed more votes... and the elderly think oh i dont have kids i dont need to pay those taxes because well thats how we think for those in the higher income brackets. I dont use social security i dont need to pay those taxes. The whole system is corrupt.
[/QUOTE]Dont get me wrong, i love america but i cant help but be dissapointed.[/QUOTE]
Disappointed in the problems, yes. Disappointed in the entire country? No. This is the best country on the planet. Try living somewhere else. If you want big gov't with mass health care, go to Canada. Pay 60% taxes, and get health care that is worse than ours. You want big gov't? Go to Russia, where they are pulling out of the nosedive that was once a country focused on gov't equalizing everybody (except the elite that were somehow exempt).
Got to look at the alternatives before you be disappointed in what we have here. Please don't take your freedom for granted. No one else has it to the extent that we do.
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