smimotorsports
Member
I am new to the forums. Has anyone done thier homework on straight oil, versus, semi and full synthetic??
Played with Oil lately?
- Thread starter smimotorsports
- Start date
- :
- '08 Jetta; '10 Wrangler Unlimited
search, search, search.....sooooo many topics on this subject!
welcome to the forum, lots of good info here.
search bottom is a good feature on the tool bar.
-ryan
welcome to the forum, lots of good info here.
search bottom is a good feature on the tool bar.
-ryan
Current and last issue of Import Tuner had articles on it, that will give you everything you'll need to know on the subject. But to put a quick end to this thread:
Synth is better, change between 5000-7500 miles; better viscosity, temp range, sheer, etc.
Dino oil is okay for mom and light duty; change every 3000 miles.
Don't add additives to your oil (changes the chemistry possibly negatively).
All major brand filters perform the same, the rest is marketing. Buy whichever makes you and your wallet feel good.
There, that was painless.
Synth is better, change between 5000-7500 miles; better viscosity, temp range, sheer, etc.
Dino oil is okay for mom and light duty; change every 3000 miles.
Don't add additives to your oil (changes the chemistry possibly negatively).
All major brand filters perform the same, the rest is marketing. Buy whichever makes you and your wallet feel good.
There, that was painless.
smimotorsports said:
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smimotorsports
Member
OK sorry about not using the search button. Damn, so much for feeling welcomed (sad1)
Yes I like spam, preferred fried, its a staple at the race track when you do not have much time (lol2)
Yes I like spam, preferred fried, its a staple at the race track when you do not have much time (lol2)
You're fine with either. The important thing is to change regularly (esp w/ dino) and use a quality filter that grabs particles smaller than those required by SAE. Purolator PureOne, AMSoil, and Mobil1 are purported to grab smaller particles than required.
smimotorsports said:
Sorry for pouring cold water on your thread, but this topic has been discussed about 3248293897699328942.3249324^2394820 times + 1 and there is NO proof that regular dino oil causes damage to your engine. Therefore I can predict that the conclusion that you can draw from this discussion (if it goes on) is that: you can use whatever you and your wallet feels like using. Yep, so you see it's kinda pointless.
BTW, welcome to the forums
And yes, spam is good (thumb)
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/
Articles, Forums, way more information on oil than a mortal can handle.
Articles, Forums, way more information on oil than a mortal can handle.
*shrugs* unless you plan on doing some serious racing, natural oil is fine. to prove my point, i had a 19 year old saab that had 290,000 miles on it when i sold it (still runs fine), and over those 19 years of service it got it's oil changed every 5,000 miles with cheap natural oil.
imho, synth oil is over-hyped. boot that's just me
imho, synth oil is over-hyped. boot that's just me
- :
- 02.5 MP5
mobil 1 with mobil 1 filter
smimotorsports
Member
(lol2) Dude you put the spam in the middle of the roma noodles.
Thanks for the info, it sounds like quality oil and filter change often will do.
Thanks for the info, it sounds like quality oil and filter change often will do.
Mazda P5 driver
Banned
- :
- 07 Legacy GT
smimotorsports said:
Amsoil is all you need.
Man, this thread reminded me how I wanted to look into getting a bypass filter. I have been reading about this stuff for the past 2 hours on bobistheoilguy.com
The motor guard looks nice, I'm still trying to figure out what kind of sandwhich adapter I would need and where I would mount it though.
The motor guard looks nice, I'm still trying to figure out what kind of sandwhich adapter I would need and where I would mount it though.
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- MP5T / 944
Ok, Here is a collection of information I have put together on the subject of Motor Oil, Mainly, Why bother to spend the extra sometimes 400% cost for a quart of oil.
Definitions to start with.
Oil, a suspension of minerals that are separated from crude oil in the cracking tower. The Crude is heated to different temperatures and then removed, graded, filtered and packaged by characteristic.
Synthetic Oil, A Completely man made lubricant. It has no natural waxes and is usually made to a much higher tolerance than regular oil.
What Do The Numbers Mean?
On every bottle of motor oil there is a seal that gives you three pieces of information:
* The API service rating
* The viscosity grade
* "Energy Conserving" indicator (it either is or it isn't)
The API service rating is a two-letter rating that tells you the type of engine the oil is meant for (gasoline or diesel) and the quality level.
The viscosity grade (for example, 5W-30) tells you the oil's thickness, or viscosity. A thin oil has a lower number and flows more easily, while thick oils have a higher number and are more resistant to flow. Water has a very low viscosity -- it is thin and flows easily. Honey has a very high viscosity -- it is thick and gooey.
The standard unit used to measure viscosity is the centistoke (cSt). According to the Automotive and Industrial Lubricants Glossary of Terms:
Viscosity is ordinarily expressed in terms of the time required for a standard quantity of the fluid at a certain temperature to flow through a standard orifice. The higher the value, the more viscous the fluid. Since viscosity varies inversely with temperature, its value is meaningless unless accompanied by the temperature at which it is determined. With petroleum oils, viscosity is now commonly reported in centistokes (cSt), measured at either 40C or 100 C (ASTM Method D445 - Kinematic Viscosity).
The centistoke rating is converted into the SAE weight designation using a chart like the one shown on the Superior Lubricants Web site.
Multi-weight oils (such as 10W-30) are a new invention made possible by adding polymers to oil. The polymers allow the oil to have different weights at different temperatures. The first number indicates the viscosity of the oil at a cold temperature, while the second number indicates the viscosity at operating temperature. This page from the Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ offers the following very interesting description of how the polymers work:
At cold temperatures, the polymers are coiled up and allow the oil to flow as their low numbers indicate. As the oil warms up, the polymers begin to unwind into long chains that prevent the oil from thinning as much as it normally would. The result is that at 100 degrees C, the oil has thinned only as much as the higher viscosity number indicates. Another way of looking at multi-vis oils is to think of a 20W-50 as a 20 weight oil that will not thin more than a 50 weight would when hot.
This is why some companies choose to offer Single Weight Oil for Racing. The Royal Purple Synthetic that I run has a weight of 30W, they offer multi weight oil such as 05W30 and 10W30, but the single weight oil gives a more consistent oil. This is only recommended for cars that require this level of thought such as a motor designed to run at much higher HP than the original design permitted. It is not recommended to change the oil rating just because... You should research your oil requirements based on precise calculations or stick with the OEM recommendations..
Definitions to start with.
Oil, a suspension of minerals that are separated from crude oil in the cracking tower. The Crude is heated to different temperatures and then removed, graded, filtered and packaged by characteristic.
Synthetic Oil, A Completely man made lubricant. It has no natural waxes and is usually made to a much higher tolerance than regular oil.
What Do The Numbers Mean?
On every bottle of motor oil there is a seal that gives you three pieces of information:
* The API service rating
* The viscosity grade
* "Energy Conserving" indicator (it either is or it isn't)
The API service rating is a two-letter rating that tells you the type of engine the oil is meant for (gasoline or diesel) and the quality level.
The viscosity grade (for example, 5W-30) tells you the oil's thickness, or viscosity. A thin oil has a lower number and flows more easily, while thick oils have a higher number and are more resistant to flow. Water has a very low viscosity -- it is thin and flows easily. Honey has a very high viscosity -- it is thick and gooey.
The standard unit used to measure viscosity is the centistoke (cSt). According to the Automotive and Industrial Lubricants Glossary of Terms:
Viscosity is ordinarily expressed in terms of the time required for a standard quantity of the fluid at a certain temperature to flow through a standard orifice. The higher the value, the more viscous the fluid. Since viscosity varies inversely with temperature, its value is meaningless unless accompanied by the temperature at which it is determined. With petroleum oils, viscosity is now commonly reported in centistokes (cSt), measured at either 40C or 100 C (ASTM Method D445 - Kinematic Viscosity).
The centistoke rating is converted into the SAE weight designation using a chart like the one shown on the Superior Lubricants Web site.
Multi-weight oils (such as 10W-30) are a new invention made possible by adding polymers to oil. The polymers allow the oil to have different weights at different temperatures. The first number indicates the viscosity of the oil at a cold temperature, while the second number indicates the viscosity at operating temperature. This page from the Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ offers the following very interesting description of how the polymers work:
At cold temperatures, the polymers are coiled up and allow the oil to flow as their low numbers indicate. As the oil warms up, the polymers begin to unwind into long chains that prevent the oil from thinning as much as it normally would. The result is that at 100 degrees C, the oil has thinned only as much as the higher viscosity number indicates. Another way of looking at multi-vis oils is to think of a 20W-50 as a 20 weight oil that will not thin more than a 50 weight would when hot.
This is why some companies choose to offer Single Weight Oil for Racing. The Royal Purple Synthetic that I run has a weight of 30W, they offer multi weight oil such as 05W30 and 10W30, but the single weight oil gives a more consistent oil. This is only recommended for cars that require this level of thought such as a motor designed to run at much higher HP than the original design permitted. It is not recommended to change the oil rating just because... You should research your oil requirements based on precise calculations or stick with the OEM recommendations..
- :
- MP5T / 944
Ok,
Why Pay the Extra money.
Basically, unless you need it, you don't have to pay. As long as your Oil meet the basic OEM requirements, Bob's your Father's Dog. Your Precious Warranty will fix any problems you might have. Hell, Millions of people have and will continue to run Conventional Oil.
End Of Discussion...
Now, for the rest of us who thing that good is not acceptable and want excellent... Enter the Synthetic. Right off the bat you are paying at least double the cost by volume. Why... The cost of R&D and the materials themselves. You are getting a better product.
All oils have a point of breakdown, as oil is heated it will still lubricate metal on metal contact and cool the parts as well. This is the point of having it there to begin with. So regular oil, regular driving, regular engine. No problem.
Synthetic oil has a much higher tolerance for chemical breakdown. Basically, it will continue to lubricate under harsher conditions.
It has the added feature of not Gelling in the winter. Conventional oils have suspended waxes in them that are natural. If you were to freeze 1 L of Conventional Oil and a MOBIL 1 down to -40 Deg and then pour them out, the Conventional Oil will run like cold honey. The Synthetic will pour almost as well as when it was warm. So cold starts in the winter... The oil is pumping much faster during those critical first second. The start is also easier because the oil pump isn't being forced to pump Gel through your filter.
Why Pay the Extra money.
Basically, unless you need it, you don't have to pay. As long as your Oil meet the basic OEM requirements, Bob's your Father's Dog. Your Precious Warranty will fix any problems you might have. Hell, Millions of people have and will continue to run Conventional Oil.
End Of Discussion...
Now, for the rest of us who thing that good is not acceptable and want excellent... Enter the Synthetic. Right off the bat you are paying at least double the cost by volume. Why... The cost of R&D and the materials themselves. You are getting a better product.
All oils have a point of breakdown, as oil is heated it will still lubricate metal on metal contact and cool the parts as well. This is the point of having it there to begin with. So regular oil, regular driving, regular engine. No problem.
Synthetic oil has a much higher tolerance for chemical breakdown. Basically, it will continue to lubricate under harsher conditions.
It has the added feature of not Gelling in the winter. Conventional oils have suspended waxes in them that are natural. If you were to freeze 1 L of Conventional Oil and a MOBIL 1 down to -40 Deg and then pour them out, the Conventional Oil will run like cold honey. The Synthetic will pour almost as well as when it was warm. So cold starts in the winter... The oil is pumping much faster during those critical first second. The start is also easier because the oil pump isn't being forced to pump Gel through your filter.
- :
- MP5T / 944
AMSOIL INC. set out to examine the specifics of the overly broad Nothing Outperforms... Mobil claim. AMSOIL 5W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil (ASL) and Mobil 1 SuperSyn 5W-30 Motor Oil were analyzed in five key bench tests measuring motor oil performance: NOACK volatility, flash/fire point, pour point, four ball wear and total base number (TBN). As shown in the charts below, AMSOIL outperformed Mobil 1 in all five areas
NOACK Volatility
The NOACK Volatility Test determines the evaporation loss of lubricants in high-temperature service. The more motor oils vaporize, the thicker and heavier they become, contributing to poor circulation, reduced fuel economy, increased oil consumption and excessive wear and emissions. A maximum of 15 percent evaporation loss is allowable to meet the API SL and ILSAC GF-3 specifications. As shown in the graph, AMSOIL 5W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil lost an extremely low 4.9 percent of its original weight during high-temperature service, maintaining its superior protective and performance qualities,while Mobil 1 SuperSyn 5W-30 Motor Oil lost 9.17 percent of its original weight.
Four Ball Wear
The Four Ball Wear Test determines the wear protection properties of a lubricant by measuring the wear scars produced by four metal balls in sliding contact under the test parameters. The smaller the average wear scar, the better the wear protection provided by the lubricant. As shown in the graph, AMSOIL 5W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil completed the Four Ball Wear Test producing a smaller wear scar than the Mobil 1 SuperSyn 5W-30 Motor Oil.
Flash/Fire Point
The Flash/Fire Point Test determines the lowest temperatures at which application of a flame will cause lubricant vapors to ignite (flash point) and sustain burning for five seconds (fire point). Lubricants with higher flash and fire points exhibit more stable volatility characteristics and are safer to use and transport. As shown in the graph, AMSOIL 5W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil has higher flash and fire points than does Mobil 1 SuperSyn 5W-30 Motor Oil.
Pour Point
The Pour Point Test determines the lowest temperature at which a lubricant flows.The lower a lubricants pour point,the better protection it provides in low-temperature service.As shown in the graph, AMSOIL 5W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil has a lower pour point than Mobil 1 SuperSyn 5W-30 Motor Oil.
Total Base Number
Total Base Number (TBN) is the measurement of a lubricants reserve alkalinity. The higher a motor oils TBN, the more effective it is in handling contaminants and reducing the corrosive effects of acids for an extended period of time. As shown in the graph, AMSOIL 5W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil has a higher TBN than Mobil 1 SuperSyn 5W-30 Motor Oil.
Our lineup of Mobil 1 Extended Performance high-endurance motor oils includes a 5W-30 grade, which is the viscosity most recommended by car builders over the last 10 years. This viscosity is recommended for most General Motors vehicles and many imports. The 5W-30 is a good viscosity for a broad range of applications and climates.
All Mobil 1 Extended Performance viscosity grades have been tested to be fully compatible with engine seals and conventional oils. A special oil filter is not required.
Mobil 1 Extended Performance motor oil is designed for today's longer service intervals. Mobil 1 Extended Performance products contain 50 percent more SuperSyn, 37 percent more cleaning agents, and 36 percent more anti-wear additives than Mobil 1. Mobil 1 Extended Performance with the Advanced SuperSyn System helps keep engines running like new and helps extend engine life by reducing wear and oil breakdown. Please follow the recommendations in your owner's manual while your car is under warranty.
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- MP5T / 944
SPECIFIC LL-01 5W30
Low viscosity engine oil
High powered Gasoline and Diesel engines
100% Synthetic - Ester based
$7.10 / 1 Liter
TYPE OF USE
Low viscosity, high HTHS Engine Oil especially designed for extended drain intervals for BMW gasoline and diesel engines when a BMW Long Life-01 approved oil is required.
PERFORMANCE
MOTUL Specific LL-01 5W-30 is especially designed for BMW Valvetronic engines, 4-cyliner, V-8, V-12 and inline 6 engines, to allow extended drain intervals, low volatility, high efficiency lubricant, friction reduction, high resistance at high temperature met in modern engines.
Anti-oxidation, Anti-wear, Anti-corrosion, Anti-foam properties.
MOTUL Specific LL-01 5W-30, environement friendly formula is the perfect balance between outstanding lubrication (high HTHS >3.5 mPa.s) and fuel economy due to its own viscosity grade.
Castrol Syntec Full Synthetic Motor Oil (1 Quart)
The unique, active formula of Castrol Syntec Full Synthetic Motor Oil is engineered to provide the ultimate in engine protection and performance. Castrol Syntec can be used with confidence in every gasoline engine passenger car, new or old, regardless of oil previously used. It is fully compatible with all conventional and synthetic oils.Syntec has been tested under the severest possible conditions to prove its outstanding durability. The result? Excellent performance in essential functions such as thermal stability, low oil consumption, resistance to oxidation, soot control, engine cleanliness and wear protection.
Features:
* Syntec provides far superior protection against deposits. Corrosive particles such as rust, acid, soot and oxidized fuel fragments can cause costly damage to critical engine parts. Syntec neutralizes these particles, suspending them away from engine sufaces.
* Now with even better protection against engine wear, Syntec can help extend the life of your engine.
* Syntec delivers the ultimate performance under high-temperature conditions: unsurpassed protection against volatility burn-off and viscosity increase.
* Syntec meets the world's toughest engine protection requirements, including European gasoline torture tests.
* Helps prevent sludge from forming in your engine.
* Neutralizes acids in your engine that can cause rust and corrosion on vital engine parts such as cylinders, bearings and hydraulic valve lifters.
Available Grades:
* SAE 10W-30
* SAE 10W-40
* SAE 05W-30
* SAE 05W-50
