MS3 vs MS6: What Do You Think? *Re Opened*

[crossbow]

It should be noted that we still don't know the MS3's exact curb weight. It "should" be 500 lbs or so lighter. It's usually about 100 lbs or 10-15bhp to make a 0.1 difference in a vehicles 1/4 mile time, given the same levels of traction and such.

If the MS3 is 500 lbs lighter, the difference in handling and acceleration will be rather massive compared to the MS6. 500 lbs is ALOT of weight. Fill your car with 3-4 friends in your MS6 and drive around. Then have all of them get out, and drive around. That gives you an idea of the performance difference you're looking at. The difference will be rather massive...basically add roughly 50-60 bhp to the MS6, and that's about what an MS3 would feel like stock.

However mazda could throw alot more weight on the MS3, making it more like 300 lbs lighter...instead of 500.

 

[seanw]

Still trying to convince yourself . Maybe you should buy one? And get rid of your porker.

I really have no motive to convince myself. As an amateur psychologist, you should know that by now.

I think the "porker" (you'll note that I never call it that) is a great car and I would be happy to own until it croaks. Ideally, as I mentioned in a prior post, I'd like to keep the MS6 for times when I've got the whole family with me. Unfortunately, my wife would never take the MS6 in place of her minivan as a daily driver. So I would have to trade the MS6 in if I decide to get the MS3.

But I'll only be CONVINCED to get the MS3 by a test drive which shows that: 1) they really have come up with an acceptable way to manage torque steer; 2) it is really a better car in the twisties; and 3) I can live with the slightly more cramped space in the MS3.

 

[seanw]

It should be noted that we still don't know the MS3's exact curb weight. It "should" be 500 lbs or so lighter. . . . .

However mazda could throw alot more weight on the MS3, making it more like 300 lbs lighter...instead of 500.

That would definitely suck and make it much less attractive. FWD and heavy should not get the Mazdaspeed badge IMHO. I guess all the upgraded parts, stiffening, and turbo accoutrement could make it 200 lbs more than the 3 hatch. We'll have to keep our fingers crossed.

 

[dogma]

I really have no motive to convince myself. As an amateur psychologist, you should know that by now.

I think the "porker" (you'll note that I never call it that) is a great car and I would be happy to own until it croaks. Ideally, as I mentioned in a prior post, I'd like to keep the MS6 for times when I've got the whole family with me. Unfortunately, my wife would never take the MS6 in place of her minivan as a daily driver. So I would have to trade the MS6 in if I decide to get the MS3.

But I'll only be CONVINCED to get the MS3 by a test drive which shows that: 1) they really have come up with an acceptable way to manage torque steer; 2) it is really a better car in the twisties; and 3) I can live with the slightly more cramped space in the MS3.

Whatever .


I wonder if the sport weighs less than the GT and would that make difference ?

Why don't you get you wife a MS3 its sort of like a minivan

 

[seanw]

Whatever .


I wonder if the sport weighs less than the GT and would that make difference ?

Why don't you get you wife a MS3 its sort of like a minivan

I was gonna say "whatever" to your post but thought it sounded childish. If the MS3 is sort of like a minivan it's one that has a nice low center of gravity and the ability to smoke a lot of coupes. My wife's actually on your side since she thinks the 3 hatch looks like a starter car. Like you apparently, she never took physics, so she has no appreciation of power/weight ratios either. But enough about your smiley face posts.

FWIW here's an interesting press release posted by someone on Edmunds MS3 forum about the MS Axela:

http://www.mazda.com/publicity/release/200606/0606.html

Notice that the yen price difference from the Axela Sport is about 11%. Also the weight difference is 90 kilos. The MS Axela at least weighs in at about a little over 3000 lbs. Let's hope the US spec MS3 keeps close to that weight.

 

[Chris-BE]

The Speed3 will out sell the Speed6. You will still see dealers with 5-10 Speed6's sitting around but the Speed3's will turn over like Camry's.

Hopefully Mazda will put together a really nice marketing plan, and hit the import scene. This car could do huge things.

I wish I could share my experience with the Speed3.

 

[nautical2086]

id like the ms3 if it wasnt the wagon, the wagon just is weird looking, so id get the 6.

 

[Breeegz]

I think the sedan looks weird...

so there

 

[dogma]

I was gonna say "whatever" to your post but thought it sounded childish. If the MS3 is sort of like a minivan it's one that has a nice low center of gravity and the ability to smoke a lot of coupes. My wife's actually on your side since she thinks the 3 hatch looks like a starter car. Like you apparently, she never took physics, so she has no appreciation of power/weight ratios either. But enough about your smiley face posts.

FWIW here's an interesting press release posted by someone on Edmunds MS3 forum about the MS Axela:

http://www.mazda.com/publicity/release/200606/0606.html

Notice that the yen price difference from the Axela Sport is about 11%. Also the weight difference is 90 kilos. The MS Axela at least weighs in at about a little over 3000 lbs. Let's hope the US spec MS3 keeps close to that weight.

Just give it up. I am not impressed by magazine quotes. Sounds like your wife wears the pants anyway.

 

[seanw]

. . . .
I wish I could share my experience with the Speed3. I'll have to ask the suits.

Wait, you're the first person I know of to say they've driven one. Share, man, share! Never mind the suits. Can't you use an alias or something or send me a PM and I'll post based on my very secret source who drove the MS3.

 

[dogma]

Wait, you're the first person I know of to say they've driven one. Share, man, share! Never mind the suits. Can't you use an alias or something or send me a PM and I'll post based on my very secret source who drove the MS3.

Do you need the secret hand shake too? Don't get caught you will be on double secret probation (yawn)

 

[seanw]

Just give it up. I am not impressed by magazine quotes. Sounds like your wife wears the pants anyway.

Wow, a troglodyte who likes to use smiley faces. Seems contradictory, but I guess it's a short hop from the cave to joyful Walmart shopper. Anyway, to quote the governor of the great State of Texas: "Adios, mofo."

 

[Chris-BE]

True story.

 

[dogma]

Wow, a troglodyte who likes to use smiley faces. Seems contradictory, but I guess it's a short hop from the cave to joyful Walmart shopper. Anyway, to quote the governor of the great State of Texas: "Adios, mofo."

Well, it just goes to show how really uneducated you are. I don't know what you have against Walmart since thats where you bought your wifes engagement ring. I thought you Texas boys loved Walmart. To quote our Governor " Your inferior MOFO "

 

[Cloke]

Okay boys, that's enough, if you don't stop I'll turn this car around. I'm pretty much sold on the MS3. The only thing that will stop me is if they say, no asians. Then I'll go all A LA LA LA LA on their arse.

 

[seanw]

Okay boys, that's enough, if you don't stop I'll turn this car around. . . . .

What? Did somebody say something? All I can hear are unintelligible grunting noises.

Anyway, here are some random pix from a poster on edmunds of some MS3's on the ground.

http://www.kirill626.com/mazdaspeed3/_catalog.html

I don't know, I'm kinda wishing it was more distinct from the regular 3 hatch. The MS6 has the bigger grill opening (fake, but still looks cool) and the pronounced raise in the hood that makes it look a little sinister. The MS3's differences are a lot more muted and it's a little on the cute side. But with its brutish power/weight ratio, I guess it's kind of a like a troglodyte with a big smiley face covering up its caveman face. Yeah, style ain't everything. If it's even more of a sleeper than the 6, that's not all bad.

Of course, if the handling isn't there or torque steer is a noticeable problem, it's just a troglodyte without any trace of sophistication like the SRT-4s. Then it's thumbs down, IMHO.
(laugh)

 

[dogma]

What? Did somebody say something? All I can hear are unintelligible grunting noises.

Anyway, here are some random pix from a poster on edmunds of some MS3's on the ground.

http://www.kirill626.com/mazdaspeed3/_catalog.html

I don't know, I'm kinda wishing it was more distinct from the regular 3 hatch. The MS6 has the bigger grill opening (fake, but still looks cool) and the pronounced raise in the hood that makes it look a little sinister. The MS3's differences are a lot more muted and it's a little on the cute side. But with its brutish power/weight ratio, I guess it's kind of a like a troglodyte with a big smiley face covering up its caveman face. Yeah, style ain't everything. If it's even more of a sleeper than the 6, that's not all bad.

Of course, if the handling isn't there or torque steer is a noticeable problem, it's just a troglodyte without any trace of sophistication like the SRT-4s. Then it's thumbs down, IMHO.
(laugh)

I see you learned a new word at Walmart. Too bad geeks like you need to hide behind the net.

 

[seanw]

It's just speculation at this point, but if the MS3 comes in with the same hp as the MS Axela (260) and weight (3064 lbs.), it will have a power/weight ratio of 11.78. I know that the AWD STi and Evo will kick its FWD butt, but by how much? The Evo, maybe not so much for a lot more cash.

2006 WRX STi
3262 lbs curb weight
2.5L TH4 6 spd manual
HP 300@6000
TQ 300@4000
10.9 lbs/HP

2006 Evo IX (not MR)
2L TI4 5 spd manual (MR = 6 spd)
3285 lbs curb weight
HP 286@6500
TQ 289@3500
11.5 lbs/HP

As Rainman pointed out, the MS6 has a p/w ratio of 13.1 which is better than all the AWD cars in it's class, so I am not dissing the MS6. (http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2260595&postcount=41)

 

[Breeegz]

I think that really puts the MS3 in perspective... How much is the Caliber weighing?

 

[seanw]

I think that really puts the MS3 in perspective... How much is the Caliber weighing?

Haven't seen anything on that. But the base model with the 1.8 liter engine weighs 3000 lbs. and the R/T AWD with CVT and the 2.4 liter engine weighs 3300. It's gotta end up somewhere in between, I guess. With 300 hp, it will be a brute and definitely out accelerate the MS3 in a straight line. Even at 3300 lbs the p/w ratio is 11 hp/lbs. But it's a Dodge. Even if you're one of the unenlightened who consider the 3 hatch to be a homely mini-minivan (not me, I like it and always have), you have to agree that the Caliber is one ugly Mini-Me Durango.