MS3 vs MS6: What Do You Think? *Re Opened*

[seanw]

New poll: screw driver or hammer?

Like others have said, I don't think these 2 cars overlap much in terms of buyers. Mostly because of the AWD.

I don't think AWD matters all that much to those of us driving on dry roads 90% of the time. I have to test drive the MS3 to know for sure if AWD makes that much difference in the corners, but in principle I am willing to trade it for a much better HP/lbs ratio. Even some of the MS6 drag racers are interested as I recall.

What I'm not sure about is whether I can live with the smaller feel inside. Objectively it's only a cubic foot of difference, but subjectively if feels like a lot.

 

[sea6speed]

I don't think AWD matters all that much to those of us driving on dry roads 90% of the time.

True, we've got twice as many days of rain per year as you do. (around 150!) But there's other reasons too.

- Launch faster
- No Torque steer
- Don't burn up tires trying to get traction

 

[seanw]

True, we've got twice as many days of rain per year as you do. (around 150!) But there's other reasons too.

- Launch faster
- No Torque steer
- Don't burn up tires trying to get traction

These problems are pretty much just limited to standing start/drag racing. But as I noted even some MS6 owners who seemingly live to drag race have expressed interest in the MS3 due to it's high P/W ratio. Me, I'm more interested in the ability to accelerate once I'm already underway, both in a straight line and through the corners (Zoom, Zoom!). I'm think Mazda will have come up with a torque steer solution for the MS3 that will be more than acceptable.

Truth is my acceleration addiction is growing and in not too distant future I'm gonna need a bigger fix than the MS6 can provide. I'm hoping the MS3 can provide it, and then over time keep providing bigger and bigger fixes as needed through new mods. Hopefully, they'll sell a lot and we'll see a good aftermarket response to wring every last drop of the DISI's potential for torque.

 

[VermZ06]

my dealer told me july a few weeks ago but im calling bs on that one lol...

A salesman at Grappone in Concord, NH told me the same thing....end of July (I flinched at him):bs:

 

[seanw]

A salesman at Grappone in Concord, NH told me the same thing....end of July (I flinched at him):bs:

Looking like it might be September:

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2504528#post2504528

 

[dogma]

My view, they are both Mazda's with a great engine. Trying to dispell the significance of AWD is just plain jealousy. The truth of the matter is the MS6 is the big brother better looking and definately more sex appeal. I traded in my SVTF for the MS6 and have never looked back. I thought about waiting for MS3 but the MS6 had more apeal to me. I can't tell you how many compliments I get. My friend just bought a Mustang GT and although we have not raced we have driven each others car and he has conseeded my car is faster and most definately handles way better. my other friend that has an STI thinks my car seems to feel like it handles better and is almost as quick. That being said the MS3 may be a little faster because of the power to weight ratio is insignificant to me. The MS3 is still an entry vehicle like the SVTF was both great cars . I personally would have rather seen Mazda make the M3 sedan the speed version with awd. Don't get me wrong I really like the hatchback ,but I think the sedan is better looking.
I hope the MS3 kicks the butt of all the Hondas,SRT's and such, so hopefully they can start making some after market parts for our engine.
All this back and forth MS6 is better than MS3 or vice versa should stop.bottom line they are both Mazda's we should all be happy. Look how Ford killed the SVT's.

Again the only people who do not think AWD is significant is the people who do not have it !

 

[seanw]

My view, they are both Mazda's with a great engine. Trying to dispell the significance of AWD is just plain jealousy. The truth of the matter is the MS6 is the big brother better looking and definately more sex appeal. . . .. That being said the MS3 may be a little faster because of the power to weight ratio is insignificant to me. . . ..

All this back and forth MS6 is better than MS3 or vice versa should stop.bottom line they are both Mazda's we should all be happy. Look how Ford killed the SVT's.

Again the only people who do not think AWD is significant is the people who do not have it !

FWIW-

First off, I own an MS6 and I love it. I have a blast every time I drive it. That won't change no matter how much I compare it to the MS3. To suggest that all this inter-Mazdaspeed strife will somehow cause the program to be "killed" like the SVT program (?!) seems silly. That said . . .

Point One: I don't discount the value of AWD in bad weather and when drag racing. I just question it's value the rest of the time given the weight penalty. Like I said, a test drive through the twisties will decide this for me.

Point Two: The MS6 is definitely bigger and better looking. I really hope my wife will give up the minivan so I can keep the MS6 my garage for trips with the whole fam damily. After all it's her fault I dont' own a motorcycle to give me the acceleration fix I need.

Point Three: A little faster? The MS6 lbs/hp ratio = 13, MS3 = 11.25. The MS6 would have to put out 320 HP to have the same ratio as the MS3. I think it will be a lot faster in roll-ons, which is significant to me cause that is where I have the most fun.

 

[dogma]

FWIW-

First off, I own an MS6 and I love it. I have a blast every time I drive it. That won't change no matter how much I compare it to the MS3. To suggest that all this inter-Mazdaspeed strife will somehow cause the program to be "killed" like the SVT program (?!) seems silly. That said . . .

Point One: I don't discount the value of AWD in bad weather and when drag racing. I just question it's value the rest of the time given the weight penalty. Like I said, a test drive through the twisties will decide this for me.

Point Two: The MS6 is definitely bigger and better looking. I really hope my wife will give up the minivan so I can keep the MS6 my garage for trips with the whole fam damily. After all it's her fault I dont' own a motorcycle to give me the acceleration fix I need.

Point Three: A little faster? The MS6 yas a w/p ratio = 13, MS3 = 11.25. The MS6 would have to put out 320 HP to have the same ratio as the MS3. I think it will be a lot faster in roll-ons, which is significant to me cause that is where I have the most fun.

Sorry if you misunderstood me. Never suggested that your point is what caused the demise of SVT. What I was trying to get across is that they are both Mazda's we should be excited we 2 performance cars to choose from.

Also I do not drag race and don't intend to and the couple of tenths of second between the 2 are to me insignificant. What matters to me is that the MS6 is one of the most gorgeous cars on the road. My car will praobably never see rain or snow for me the AWD makes the MS6 handle better than the MS3. I like the AWD for handling not weather. Again the MS6 is an upgrade to the MS3 and the few tenths of a second are insignificant to me.
You can try to fish for any reason to try to put the MS3 above the 6 it ain't happening. Don't get me wrong the MS3 is anawesome car and I will defend it to the death against any other car made. All this in house fighting about the 2 should be stopped. I will defend my little brother outside the family.

 

[awsmp5]

i would go with the ms3 cuz i'm not too into big cars. i'd rather have a small quick car i guess. although the 6 looks somewhat better. its a touch choice. it all comes down to personal preference

 

[seanw]

. . .. Again the MS6 is an upgrade to the MS3 and the few tenths of a second are insignificant to me.
You can try to fish for any reason to try to put the MS3 above the 6 it ain't happening. Don't get me wrong the MS3 is anawesome car and I will defend it to the death against any other car made. All this in house fighting about the 2 should be stopped. I will defend my little brother outside the family.

The MS6 is an upgrade on some fronts but not others. (enguard) The two cars are really more like equals. Okay, let's use the brother analogy. The MS6 is the larger, better looking, more responsible, older brother. Still an athelete but getting a little chunky due to family life. The MS3 is not as good looking. It's also smaller and more compact (1 cubic ft. less interior space), but just as strong (power loss due to AWD drivetrain negates 7 HP difference?). It's the better athelete of the two because it's still trim which makes it more nimble and faster once it's wheels stop spinning and it gets traction. Without AWD it's not as stable, so it's a little more reckless, like a typical younger brother. So, it's a trade off: better looking, more family oriented, still very athletic older brother; vs. equally powerfull, faster, more nimble, but less accomodating and a little more reckless younger brother.

Nuff said? (Probably too much for most. Oh, well.)

 

[dogma]

Who are you trying to convince me or you? Your right though enough said.

 

[seanw]

Who are you trying to convince me or you? Your right though enough said.

Could have been enough, but no, you had to come back with the amateur psych.

You're obviously vested in the MS6, so there's no convincing you. I'm trying to convince people like myself who believed in the dogma that AWD is always worth the weight penalty. I'm questioning this dogma especially in the case of small car that is still relatively light and where the AWD in question is the Haldex, described by some as more of a power takeoff than true AWD.

Since we're using amateur psych, I hope you're happiness with the MS6 isn't dependent on a need to see it as superior in performance to the MS3, 'cause it just might not be.

 

[VermZ06]

Could have been enough, but no, you had to come back with the amateur psych.

You're obviously vested in the MS6, so there's no convincing you. I'm trying to convince people like myself who believed in the dogma that AWD is always worth the weight penalty. I'm questioning this dogma especially in the case of small car that is still relatively light and where the AWD in question is the Haldex, described by some as more of a power takeoff than true AWD.

Since we're using amateur psych, I hope you're happiness with the MS6 isn't dependent on a need to see it as superior in performance to the MS3, 'cause it just might not be.

The MS3 will be the better performer of the two. It has been proven that smaller and lighter cars are better performers. The two have the same engine with just about identical power. The MS3 is obviously the lighter of the two, but does not have the AWD. AWD is only a factor when launching, when your foot is on the gas pedal moving through those twisties or in harsh road conditions. Even though the MS6 is AWD, it is still a porker and will have trouble keeping up with its lighter brother. The AWD does not make up for its weight. Just look at the old neon SRT-4 v. WRX. Just about same power, however, SRT-4 typically comes out on top even from the dig because of its lower weight. I think the SRT-4 is around 5.5 seconds 0-60 whereas the WRX is 5.8. The MS6 is a kick ass car and I wish I had one, but I don't think I'll ever be able to get rid of the MSP. (nana)

 

[dogma]

Could have been enough, but no, you had to come back with the amateur psych.

You're obviously vested in the MS6, so there's no convincing you. I'm trying to convince people like myself who believed in the dogma that AWD is always worth the weight penalty. I'm questioning this dogma especially in the case of small car that is still relatively light and where the AWD in question is the Haldex, described by some as more of a power takeoff than true AWD.

Since we're using amateur psych, I hope you're happiness with the MS6 isn't dependent on a need to see it as superior in performance to the MS3, 'cause it just might not be.

For the couple of tenths of a second, I will take the better looking car. The SRT4 may be a tad faster but the is no comparision to the handling. Oh yea If I am not mistaken the WRX is AWD. By the way what do you drive?

 

[Antoine]

Interesting to note the MS3 is actually edging out the MS6 in the thread poll above! In any case I think the MS3 will appeal to a wider market than the MS6...

 

[USeeMyExhaust]

xexexe 57 tie after casted my vote to ofcourse the ms6
any idea on the price of ms3?

 

[seanw]

For the couple of tenths of a second, I will take the better looking car. The SRT4 may be a tad faster but the is no comparision to the handling. Oh yea If I am not mistaken the WRX is AWD. By the way what do you drive?

MS6 with 7500 miles on it. I'm not talking about a couple of tenths of a second in the 1/4 mile. I'm talking about the awesome roll-on acceleration that will come from having a 500 lb. lighter car with almost the same power at the crank, and maybe even a little more power at the wheels (given the power train loss on the MS6's AWD system). I think the MS3 is going to walk away from A LOT of cars in roll-ons, not just the MS6. The only open question is cornering. Does the Haldex AWD on MS6 really improve cornering enough to make up for the extra 500 lbs over MS3? Come September I aim to find out.

 

[seanw]

xexexe 57 tie after casted my vote to ofcourse the ms6 . . . .

Not any more!

 

[seanw]

The MS3 will be the better performer of the two. . . . . AWD is only a factor when launching, when your foot is on the gas pedal moving through those twisties or in harsh road conditions. . . . . Even though the MS6 is AWD, it is still a porker and will have trouble keeping up with its lighter brother. The AWD does not make up for its weight. . . .(nana)

Acceleration in a straight line is a lot of fun, but acceleration through a corner is even more fun. So it's the "foot on the gas pedal moving through the twisties" that I'm wondering about.

See the RWD/FWD/AWD comparo in MT: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedan/112_0506_front_rear_allwheel_drive/. After reading this article it is obvious to me that AWD is definitely superior to both FWD and RWD in terms of inherent cornering ability. Just look at the exit speeds at the end of the article. And, although the MS6 is not a true AWD, I can actually feel it tighten up a corner when I step on the gas (along with the little hiccup the AWD makes when it kicks in). But I can also feel its heaviness when hitting the apex. Given this tradeoff, I won't know for sure whether the MS6's AWD "makes up for its weight" in the twisties, (at least with me at the wheel) until I actually drive the MS3.

 

[dogma]

Still trying to convince yourself . Maybe you should buy one? And get rid of your porker.