MS3 vs MS6: What Do You Think? *Re Opened*

[seanw]

You want a manly car that looks bulky and tough? Buy a MSP6. AWD, heavier but will **** the FWD MSP3 on a 45mph+ roll-on ANY DAY. Not to mention the launch..after that its all about catching up for the feather weight MSP3.

....
Always remember, this is where all hatchbacks come from -->> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/54/Cars_008.jpg/275px-Cars_008.jpg

P.S. the srt-4 was descontinued because it is crap. Fast, but crap.

I disagree on the roll-on. That is where the MS3 will have the advantage due to it's 12 lbs/hp ratio vs. the MS6's 13 lbs/hp ratio. I also disagree on the origin of the hatchback. I'd say it goes back as least as far as the AMC Pacer.
http://www.partaj.cz/imgs/ameriky/AMC/pacer/77amc_06_pacer.jpg

 

[Karma_hunden]

I disagree on the roll-on. That is where the MS3 will have the advantage due to it's 12 lbs/hp ratio vs. the MS6's 13 lbs/hp ratio. I also disagree on the origin of the hatchback. I'd say it goes back as least as far as the AMC Pacer.
http://www.partaj.cz/imgs/ameriky/AMC/pacer/77amc_06_pacer.jpg

well, the MSP3 has a better ratio but the AWD system will always have an advantage over the FWD (when equal ratio)...in this case the MSP6's ratio isnt too far away from the 3's, so the advantage isnt that much ratio-wise...the AWD as proven in the 0-60 time of both cars greatly affects the 6 which is able to keep pace with the small counterpart that runs barely 0.1sec faster. The 6 has a bigger chance of winning the roll-on on a short term race...the 3 will be all about catching up, and if given more than 10secs might just do so and pass the 6.

However, based on tests, it has being said that there is this feeling that the MSP3's FWD engine can barely stand the power it has being given and it was probably designed to its limits. So, regardless whether it is the same engine as the 6 but with different ECU restrictions, trying to push more hp's/torque will probably have some bad consequences in the future because it is FWD. So ricers/tuners beware. Have the feeling there will be a lot of CEL threads in the M3 forum.

btw, the hatchback joke I made it up,that wagon aint the REAL origin of the hatchback LOL, I just typed hatchback on google images and grabbed the gayest pic it popped up. Btw, how come they dont call them wagons anymore? afraid of the truth? I dont think yall hatchbackers can handle the truth!!

 

[Da 6]

Wagon is not a "Manly image" to most. If the magnum was introduced as a station wagon it wouldn't have sold like it did. Dodge didn't even want the SRT-4 to be considered a neon in any way whatsoever. Hell out of the states neons were 2.0 FX. The mazda 6 hatch looks more sedan like where the 3 kinda doesn't. I would take the 6 over the 3 not from a handeling or acceleration point but the fact I'm not a hatch person.

 

[spike blue]

ms3 but igot the cx-7 LOL i love it!! Pretty fast too!! The ms6 its awesome but i love the ms3!!

 

[DSpec]

they both suck. MS6 (which is what I own) is too heavy and too comfortable and only mature people drive them.

MS3 sucks because it is not AWD and only you young whippersnappers are gonna buy them and put big cans on the back...(peep) (first) (enguard)

Seriously, this debate and arguing is ridiculous and you can certainly count on me to take jabs at all threads like this...

 

[ONRAILS]

lol... whats wrong with "mature" people? The bmw m3 is also "too heavy and too comfortable".

Anyways, yes... ridiculous.

they both suck. MS6 (which is what I own) is too heavy and too comfortable and only mature people drive them.

MS3 sucks because it is not AWD and only you young whippersnappers are gonna buy them and put big cans on the back...(peep) (first) (enguard)

Seriously, this debate and arguing is ridiculous and you can certainly count on me to take jabs at all threads like this...

 

[Karma_hunden]

correction. heavy and fast

 

[Raynman]

...and only you young whippersnappers are gonna buy them and put big cans on the back...(peep) (first) (enguard)

Even bigger than stock?

 

[Breeegz]

I'll take either

 

[Rotary_Powered]

Msp & Msm Ftw!!!

 

[MS6S2K]

You want a manly car that looks bulky and tough? Buy a MSP6. AWD, heavier but will **** the FWD MSP3 on a 45mph+ roll-on ANY DAY. Not to mention the launch..after that its all about catching up for the feather weight MSP3.

Dont know if you are aware of it, but the MSP3 does an average of 6.1secs from 0-60mph compared to the 6.2secs of the MSP6. 5.3secs is the fastest the MSP3 is capable of, but that has to be on perfect weather conditions etc etc (The MSP6's is 5.4secs). So for those saying the AWD doesnt do any difference, well guess what, it does. One of the few sites http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=116119.

I'll have to respectfully disagree, and I'm an MS6 owner. You are talking about a lot less weight in the MS3, essentially the same power, and possibly less drivetrain loss (equal to more whp). Edmunds tests on each (14.3 at 95.7mph for the MS6) vs 14.1 at 100.1 mph on MS3), tells me that the MS3 will walk the Speed 6 from a roll. I enjoy my 6, but it feels so heavy and slow to me, but I admit that's because I traded in an 04 STI for one, and I'm still adapting to the downgrade in performance. No doubt in my mind that the Speed 3 will be faster from a roll, and outperform the Speed 6 in nearly every aspect. It's also not as luxurious or good looking as the MS6, so it's gonna be a tough call for me when it's time to unload my Speed 6.

 

[Karma_hunden]

well, the reason why its heavy is cuz of the AWD. Regardless whether the msp3 has a better whp/torque ratio, the awd system should help the msp6 squeeze those on a roll-on punch. But as I said, it will take the msp3 about 5-10 seconds to catch up and eventually pass the msp6. Same on a stop.

Go to streetfire.net and you will see the AWD power the msp6 has...even when the msp6 loses, most of the times he wins the launch...except in a race with the new grand cherokee SRT-8 (0-60mph= 4.9secs)...boy was that embarassing/surprising.

 

[seanw]

well, the reason why its heavy is cuz of the AWD. Regardless whether the msp3 has a better whp/torque ratio, the awd system should help the msp6 squeeze those on a roll-on punch. But as I said, it will take the msp3 about 5-10 seconds to catch up and eventually pass the msp6. Same on a stop.

Go to streetfire.net and you will see the AWD power the msp6 has...even when the msp6 loses, most of the times he wins the launch...except in a race with the new grand cherokee SRT-8 (0-60mph= 4.9secs)...boy was that embarassing/surprising.

No one's doubting the AWD launch. But you mentioned the roll-on. 12 vs. 13 lbs/hp is sigificant and I don't think there's a lot of AWD action happening after 20-30 mph in the MS6. The C&D review of the MS3 should have a chart showing drag strip acceleration times time in 10 mph intervals. We should be able to get an initial sense of it's roll-on power.

 

[shark77]

No one's doubting the AWD launch. But you mentioned the roll-on. 12 vs. 13 lbs/hp is sigificant and I don't think there's a lot of AWD action happening after 20-30 mph in the MS6. The C&D review of the MS3 should have a chart showing drag strip acceleration times time in 10 mph intervals. We should be able to get an initial sense of it's roll-on power.

Here are Motortrend results side-by-side for the MS6 and the MS3...

-----------------MS6---------------MS3--------Gap------Gap per 10mph
0-30-------------1.7----------------2.1---------0.4---------0.4
40---------------2.9----------------3.3---------0.4---------0.0
50---------------4.0----------------4.3---------0.3---------(0.1)
60---------------5.8----------------6.0---------0.2---------(0.1)
70---------------7.5----------------7.3---------(0.2)-------(0.4)
80---------------9.9----------------9.5---------(0.4)-------(0.2)
90---------------12.5---------------11.5--------(1.0)-------(0.6)
100--------------16.0---------------14.5--------(1.5)-------(0.5)


Passing 45-65----3.2----------------2.8

1/4 Mile----------14.3@96.0---------14.3@99.4

So what does the data tell us?

Well from a stop with the speed perspective of the MS6, this is how it would look.
The MS6 obviously jumps out into the lead. Visually this would look like about a 15-17ft advantage at 30mph.

From 30-40mph the MS6 distance would grow to ~20ft
From 40-50mph the MS6 distance would grow to ~23ft
From 50-60mph the MS6 distance would grow to ~24ft

After 65mph the MS3 would begin eating up the ~24ft advantage of the MS6.
By 80mph the MS3 would be ~17ft behind the MS6
At 90mph the MS3 would be ~7ft behind the nose of the MS6
At 100mph the MS3 would be ~15ft ahead of the MS6 and moving off into the distance.

From a rolling start, anything from 30mph on up the MS3 is going to pull on the MS6.

A good example is the 45-65mph passing number. The MS3 reaches 65mph 0.4sec quicker than the MS6. Each 0.1 sec the MS3 is able to accelerate at 0.89mph faster than the MS6 this compounded over 0.4sec translates into 13ft.

So from 45-65mph roll the MS6 would be 13ft behind the MS3 when the MS3 speedo reads 65mph.

 

[Karma_hunden]

wow. turns out i was wrong. good info shark!

I think the reason why the msp3 starts to eat up the msp6 on the 90's is because of the low torque at high rpms the msp6 has due to its dying boost. Solution to high rpm dying boost? Front mount intercooler. Results? Get that second back that the msp3 took and add a few more infront of it.

 

[Da 6]

This is the perfect example of civil debates Thanx for the side-by-side info!

 

[jaydrouin]

mazda speed 3 the real answers just ask

I wasn't for sure where to post this so I'll just do it here.

When the release of these most anticipated vehicles happens, I am going to be torn. I see the hatch style and I'm starting to like it a lot, but what I've seen about the MS6 is also mind boggling. I know that with the MS6 they kept the 4 cyl for better performance/handling instead of doing the v6 turbo. I would think though that the MS3 would be lighter, so it could go faster especially with AWD. If you guys could. Let me know what you think about these 2 up coming vehicles and which you all think would out perform the other.

The dealership knows that I'm looking at getting the MS6 and its cost show about $29,000 or so. I think I gave the sales guy a run for his money b/c he was asking me questions about it.

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