MPI Tuner Anyone?

[Kooldino]

Keep in mind that they are used on many high HP turbo cars from the factory.

True, but those cars are well tuned from the factory.

 

[MPNick]

True, but those cars are well tuned from the factory.

Yes Dana you are right, there well tuned from the factory. However they still depend on the very same NB O2 to run in closed loop. More and more most OEM cars stay in closed loop most of the time. Some never leave closed loop unless they get a CEL and this is more like defualt anyway.

There is not difference from a well tuned OEM car with a NB and a well tuned MPI Tuner car with a NB. If you know how to tune you will be fine. If you do not know how to tune you will have problems. How many cars have blown on the dyno with WBs on them. Most of the time they will say the AFR was good.


Thanks again


Later...........Nick

 

[MPNick]

The pros and cons to standalones and such. I tried in lamens terms to state a few things. truethfully it will take a lenghthy discussion to bring everything out in the open about both systems.
my opinion is that for regualr everyday street use the piggyback is the way to go. IF you decide this is to be a special high performance only machine then the standalone can be tuned for max performance for the track
if you want to start another thread I can go into graet detail and specifics on why the piggyback is a better option and lay out pros and cons for both systems.


Thanks again


Later.....Nick

 

[MPNick]

The MPI Tuner can be mapped for optimal performance thruout the rpm band. It bases its values from whatever the user programs in the input and the desired output. The unit can use the O2 sensor to control the A/F ratio thru the inputs we are going to provide to it. The MAF voltage will be clamped to a certain degree whenever we see fit to get the reqiured amperage reading to the ecu for functionality. We will control throttle angle voltage for load input to the ecu along with MAF and o2 sensor readings.
We are using the stock ECU inputs and outputs to our advantage. The stock ecu will still process the same information and wont be disturbed in performing its every day functions. The piggyback will basically go "around" the ecu to perform as intended from what the driver is demanding from the system.

Thanks again


Later.....Nick

 

[MPNick]

The piggy back will "tell" the ecu what level of airflow you have going thru the turbo. The stock ecu is then used to increase duty cycle and fuel enrichment. The more airflow the more fuel.
Now in regards to the two maps. This is ONLY a luxury.Some people choose to run only 5-6 psi on the street . It is very common. We will tune a map specifically for this level so as to be efficient UP TO THAT level. You will have to have either a manual or electronic boost gauge. The map will have the OPTIMAL fuel and ignition settings for UP TO 6psi (as stated example above) The reason for this is that depending on load and throttle position the ecu will supply a given amount of fuel to work with. If you tune to 10psi and you only depress the throttle 75% to get the gauge to read 6psi. the fuel may not be sufficient for the airflow. Its all about having the right values. When you want to increase boost then you will have a map for a higher or lower value. If it sounds at all confusing then pleae call me at the shop or pm me and ill give you my number. There is only so much i will discuss on an open forum. I can go into great detail over the phone or in person.


Thanks again


Later.........Nick

 

[MPNick]

This is partialy correct.
the unit will come (for most) preprogramed to 8PSI. When you turn the MBC up (if you have one) from that point you will naturally get more airflow thru the system at a given RPM that will vary from your original settings. It will compensate to a point. Think about it as a range. The unit can see boost thru the factory MAF and if it is programmed for 8 then 12 will not be so accurate. It will work but the key is to be tuned for it. Especially for ignition. This is where our unit is superior. Now the need for two maps comes in when you dont want to have to get out of the car to adjust boost manually or just want to increase it with the flick of a switch. Maybe you chose to run race gas that night at the track. All you have to do is go to map B
Its there basically for ease and comfort. Its a perk. Nothing like a riced out civic pulling up and with the flick of a switch you just went from 8psi to 12PSI , changed your Fuel and igniton curve to match the boost level. Remember that the tune map for 8 psi will be very different then with 12 psi. Thats why with just a fuel piggyback like the haltech you have to run higher octane to compensate for the lack of ignition control.
Re: Piggy Back or Stand Alone..The Showdown!!

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Quote:
Originally posted by duMb KeoLa
okay, here it is, hopefully im not the only one who doesnt know the difference or actually pros/cons to having one or the other...perf...terry, heres your chance to shine and SELL your products!!!

LOL, dude you crack me up. you went thru with the thread good s***
one thing you also need to understand is that this is not meant to be a pissing contest on who has the better system. It is a matter of personal preference and confidence in themselves ( the buyer) to tune something that they normally dont do every day.
The ease in which a system can be used is what is important. That is why i beleive the piggyback is the way to go.

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Last edited by perfworks : 06-11-2003 at 08:49 AM.



Check out what Perfworks has to say about the MPI Tuner


Thanks again


Later............Nick

 

[MPNick]

I've posted rundowns on the various ways of wiring in ECUs in the past. We've done piggybacks, parallel and standalones.

Piggybacks are great for emissions compliance and ease of programming. You don't need to worry about cold start, driveability, idle or basically deal with the most complex aspects of engine tuning. You do need to prevent the stock ECU from compensating for what you're doing, though.

Parallel works well on cars with fairly simple stock ECUs. You give fuel and timing control to a standalone box and let the stock ECU take care of everything else. Depending on how the stock ECU goes in to "failsafe" mode, this could work well or poorly. We've found that the early Miatas run just fine this way, but the more sophisticated ones get upset.

Full standalones offer the most flexibility, the most potential and the most complexity. Programming an ECU to run well under all circumstances is not a trivial task. While you'll be able to pass a "sniffer" test, you won't pass any emissions test that involve inspection.

Keith
__________________
Flyin' Protege


Keith may feel w do not always agree on the same things, but I have to show him respect for one thing. He has never change his opinion.


Thanks again


Later................Nick

 

[MPNick]

can almost feel the finger cramps coming from the length of this one J/K
alright from the top in order.
1. thanks and i dont know off hand but i can find out about the shipping
2. well you dont have a govenor. it is mostly drag/power limited. i cant tell you that it will go faster but it will make you existing set up more efficient. youlll be able to run higher boost levels safely because the ignition aspect will be addressed and you can force more air and fuel into the cylinder. usually forced induction does not affect top speed but if you can increase your HP potential at or near the redline then it may very well improve how fast you at least get to that point
3.no. my set up will be the official tuning map. i will purposely keep my stock injectors for the simple fact that the module will come preprogrammed for those running stock fuel and ignition setups. then if you chose to go to larger injectors or extra injectors it will have a "beginners map" installed that can be fine tuned via laptop. it is a very simple system that anyone can tune once you get used to reading the charts it provides and "learn" the operation. but we will help you with online and personal support when you need it for upgrades.
4. boost pressures will depend also on the strength of your internals, ignition management, and driving habits.
we will have the managment covered so the hard part is done. we can tune the ignition map to the 92 octane fuel you use when you order. then you have a second map you can chose for race gas boost pressures on stock internals i would not exeed 15psi and would feel comfortable at 12psi daily
5.more HP potential by increasing boost levels and fuel supply to the engine. yes there will be plenty of instructions. you will also have online support where you may download a new map file from our database if you are having trouble remapping from preprogrammed values
6. its the highest rated pump you can get right now. it stands for 255 liters per hour
7. well thats where me and terry might differa little. it isnt exactly between a FMU and standalone equally.
it is much like a standalone in that i can control the entire vehicle ignition and fuel system but it uses the outputs from the stock ecu to convey the tasks. with a standa alone there are many drawbacks but many great features too. unfortunatley with the standalone if you dont have a compitent tuner available to you it can get difficult to have the car run right.
see its difficult to sit here and start picking things apart about different systems. the bottom line is that with a standalone you are completely removing the stock ecu from the loop and can basically control all the shots. but with todays stock ecus, they controll even when the dimmers come on in the dash, mileage counts, abs, traction control, many things that would take a about a week to go thru. the standalone will have to go a great transformation to run correctly one hundred percent of the time. the piggy back is there to "help" the stock ecu along to get your demands out of the vehicle you as it for.
now look there are alot of issues , pros and cons to standalones and such. i tried in lamens terms to state a few things. truethfully it will take a lenghthy discussion to bring everything out in the open about both systems.
my opinion is that for regualr everyday street use the piggyback is the way to go. IF you decide this is to be a special high performance only machine then the standalone can be tuned for max performance for the track
if you want to start another thread i can go into graet detail and specifics on why the piggyback is a better option and lay out pros and cons for both systems.

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Last edited by perfworks : 06-10-2003 at 08:19 PM.


Check out how in this post the extra injectors are the best way to go and they are in the best place. Now you are told that it does not work well.


Thanks again


Later..............Nick

 

[LinuxRacr]

Nick, if you wanted to quote there was an easier way.

 

[MPNick]

Nick, if you wanted to quote there was an easier way.

Do tell.


Thanks again


Later........Nick

 

[DooMer_MP3]

Keith may feel w do not always agree on the same things, but I have to show him respect for one thing. He has never change his opinion.


Thanks again


Later................Nick

So what if somebody changes their opinion? The world would not work if people did not change their opinions once in awhile. So perfworks loved the MPI tuner when he was trying to get it to work, found some things HE THOUGHT were flaws in the system, and no longer supported it. Yes, you've fixed these flaws, but you were pretty reluctant about admitting they were problems. There have been, what, 2 new iterations of it? Obviously there were some problems that needed fixing.

I'm glad you got it working now, for the most part. But it would be nice to see some dynos or logs with AF ratios and such.

Chris

 

[MPNick]

So what if somebody changes their opinion? The world would not work if people did not change their opinions once in awhile. So perfworks loved the MPI tuner when he was trying to get it to work, found some things HE THOUGHT were flaws in the system, and no longer supported it. Yes, you've fixed these flaws, but you were pretty reluctant about admitting they were problems. There have been, what, 2 new iterations of it? Obviously there were some problems that needed fixing.

I'm glad you got it working now, for the most part. But it would be nice to see some dynos or logs with AF ratios and such.

Chris

THere were no problems, only upgrades. At first we only could retard timing. Now we do both advance and retard. At first we only added fuel with the extra injectors becuase we could not control the stock MAF. Some people only wanted to run 6-8 psi so we made change to the unit to get the stock injectors to add fuel for 6-8 psi.

These ar not problems. This is customer feedback and we made changes to our system to make it better.

AS for Perfworks, he has a problem. He spent the last few days bashing his own post's that he made when he was able to sell the MPI Tuner. Not just with the MPI Tuner. With the extra injector he tells a new story on why now they do not work, but if you read his older post's he talks about we the extra injector is the only way to go. I called me a lair the other day and it was his own post he was taking about. The man is all over the map. He talked about working with AEM for two years. So why did he not use the AEM back then. He has also posted thet he got the piggyback to run fine in his car after he left me.

The man has a problem. He was kicked off of one Mazda forum for not post fact before[his 450hp car]. He has been doing the same on this forum from day one.

I will post dyno number when we dyno. So me the dyno numbers on the AEM, better yet show me one customer with the AEM. You have seen my customer on this forum talking about how well my system works. Where are the other people with the other systems????????????


Thanks again


Later...............Nick

 

[jaman]

I will post dyno number when we dyno. So me the dyno numbers on the AEM, better yet show me one customer with the AEM. You have seen my customer on this forum talking about how well my system works. Where are the other people with the other systems????????????


Thanks again


Later...............Nick

Duhhhh!!! How can a customer own the AEM unit if it hasn't even been released yet??? That's like telling somebody, "I don't believe the 2005 Mustang works, show me one person who owns one!!".

Have some patience!!!

 

[MPNick]

Duhhhh!!! How can a customer own the AEM unit if it hasn't even been released yet??? That's like telling somebody, "I don't believe the 2005 Mustang works, show me one person who owns one!!".

Have some patience!!!

He is telling people that it is already up and running on a Protege. Where is his proof that it works at all?

The 2005 Mustang has already been tested and it is a running car. You have to remember that some people have been talking about alot of things that are to come. Chips, AFCs and now AEMs. Sofar all I see is talk. How does one know for sure that it is a working system or even if all the problem that people have with the system is worked out.

It is your money, put up your $1,500.00 and hold on for a wild ride. You will have no tech support from the people that make the system. You will have to deal with someone that could not get the a piggyback running right and gave up on it, the piggyback is 100 times faster to install and set up.

Just pay your money to Perfworks and go away from this thread. In my mind this guy is just like some used car dealers. They will say anything to make a sale. If you cannot see what he has said before and now has come back and bashed his own post's, then you are the perfect customer for him.

Good luck and be well.


Thanks again


later................Nick

 

[hukster00]

whats faster to install then p&p

 

[MPNick]

whats faster to install then p&p

First I said to install and tune it. Now I know that AEM has PnP for Hondas, Toyotas and other cars. THey do not have a system for the Protege. I also do not think that Perfworks has a PnP system for the Mazda.

If they do ever come up with a PnP you still have tons of tuning and the tons of other problem that come with running a system like. If you would like to read more about the problems that people have with system like that please read my other thread. You will find point by point reasons for not useing anything other that a piggyback, the funny thing is Perfworks wrote the post. What is the deal with that.


Thanks again

Later........Nick

 

[Kooldino]

First I said to install and tune it. Now I know that AEM has PnP for Hondas, Toyotas and other cars. THey do not have a system for the Protege. I also do not think that Perfworks has a PnP system for the Mazda.

Take your own advice and "just post the facts". You can't prove that AEM doesn't have a PnP for the Protege. Nothing's being accomplished by posting stuff like this.

If they do ever come up with a PnP you still have tons of tuning and the tons of other problem that come with running a system like. If you would like to read more about the problems that people have with system like that please read my other thread. You will find point by point reasons for not useing anything other that a piggyback, the funny thing is Perfworks wrote the post. What is the deal with that.

All standalones and all piggies are different. As stated before, they both have their problems.

 

[LinuxRacr]

This is headed down the wrong road again. Facts and questions were posted. Let it stand. Personal attacks like name-calling need to stay out of here.

 

[MPNick]

Take your own advice and "just post the facts". You can't prove that AEM doesn't have a PnP for the Protege. Nothing's being accomplished by posting stuff like this.



All standalones and all piggies are different. As stated before, they both have their problems.

How about this for facts. I just called AEM and guess what they do not sell and or are planning to build a PnP for the Protege.

This is what I posted before. If someone is going to redo an AEM computer into their own PnP that is fine. But like I posted before, AEM the company will not have any support for it. You are on your own.

Here is the phone number and link to AEM. 310-484-2322

http://www.aempower.com/product_ems_app.asp



Thanks again


Later..................Nick

Just posting the facts.

 

[Boost-Or-Lose]

we would be on our own if Perf and Wagner hadn't already told us that each unit would be pre-tuned for our individual cars and any adjustments or upgrades could be done in under an hour by simply emailing the file to them....this is also free of charge. If I decide later to add a turbo, they will simply mail me the corrected maps I need for my car. Also, the AEM is a self-learning unit....similar to the Terminator.