MPI Tuner Anyone?

[jaman]

You will have no tech support from the people that make the system.

Thats a pretty bold statement to make, are you a fortune teller??

Just pay your money to Perfworks and go away from this thread. In my mind this guy is just like some used car dealers. They will say anything to make a sale. If you cannot see what he has said before and now has come back and bashed his own post's, then you are the perfect customer for him.

To be honest, I will wait about 6 months or so and then decide whether I want the AEM or your MPI Tunner. Hopefully by then both of you will have some SOLID numbers to report and a customer base that can share their opinions here on the respective systems.

 

[DooMer_MP3]

How about this for facts. I just called AEM and guess what they do not sell and or are planning to build a PnP for the Protege.

This is what I posted before. If someone is going to redo an AEM computer into their own PnP that is fine. But like I posted before, AEM the company will not have any support for it. You are on your own.

Here is the phone number and link to AEM. 310-484-2322

http://www.aempower.com/product_ems_app.asp



Thanks again


Later..................Nick

Just posting the facts.

And this is news? Perfworks has already stated that he and wagner are doing the R&D on this unit, because AEM wasn't going to make one for the Protege. So they've spent months working on it for us. Yes, I think they should wait to post about it until its completely done and ready to market, because its going on a couple of weeks since they said "Just a couple of weeks" etc. But a lot of people seem to do that here with their products.

They also stated that all support will be through he and wagner for retuning etc. This is FACT.

Chris

 

[Little Beavis]

we would be on our own if Perf and Wagner hadn't already told us that each unit would be pre-tuned for our individual cars and any adjustments or upgrades could be done in under an hour by simply emailing the file to them....this is also free of charge. If I decide later to add a turbo, they will simply mail me the corrected maps I need for my car. Also, the AEM is a self-learning unit....similar to the Terminator.

Now this is not meant to be a rip on Perf or anyone else, but I have to get up on a soap box now! (I'm pissed off. . .and sick of all this crap! So if I burst a bubble or two, I don't @#$%^& care!)

If you truly believe that these units can be tuned to your specific car simply by telling them over the phone what mod you have, then please call me I have some beautiful lake front property I can sell you real cheap.

How many "mods" have they tested? How many configurations?

If our normal mods are: CAI, exhaust, cams, fuel pump, injectors, turbo, intercooler, spark plugs / ignition, intake / piping mods, and head mods. We would have 10 "variable" to tune for. Now to get it right, you need to have these modifications and tune for them. Now not everyone has one of these, but let's say you have a combination of these 10 (assume now there are only 10 to tune for and only 1 of each kind available. . .)

How many combinations is that? 3,628,800!!!!!!!!! Holy crap that is a lot of dyno time! Now wait, there are more than one of each of these. . .so that only means the list gets bigger. . .given three options for each, there are only about 11 million combinations! Now if they tune for 1 minute (they are that damn good remember. . .) it will only take them just shy of 21 years to tune for every possible combination if they do it 24 hours a day 365 days a year!

That doesn't even touch the cost of getting all these parts to dyno tune with to begin with.

Next I question the stock sensors. . .you have an auto-learning ECU. I wonder why? Oh, for example the stock MAF has a idle voltage range of 1.7 to 2.4 volts! (of a max 5V). So, if this is what we can expect from these factory sensors (this is kind of an important one), the it would mean that a computer interpreting these signals might behave differently on a car that normally outputs 1.7 volts as opposed to a car that outputs 2.4 volts. Maybe you can tell them that on the phone as well.

To be honest, I hope to hell the AEM works exactly as it is described and is so simple and easy, but what in life is. I think it is very wishful thinking to believe that this is going to happen!

And on a side note. . .enough of the crap about "prove this and prove that". It is okay for Perf to make claims about a system that isn't out there, but when people actually running the MPI say it works, people scoff at it. I guess Perf's words are worth more than anyone elses! He must be that damn good! The MPI works! Take my word for it! If you think Perf's counts more than mine. Good, I'm happy for you and I wish you the best of luck! I do encourage you to look through his posts, he's made as many "mistakes" as I normally do, so I don't think he's any better than me nor am I any better than him!

AMEN!

 

[Bigg Tim]

If anyone wants to rely on perf's "tech support" good luck. I tried that and it got me 3 months of wasted time and mis-information. Don't let him fool you, he is a great talker, but be very carefull when you listen to him. One more time, his "support" cost me 3 months of downtime and a car running like s***, and yet he got his car running beautiful on the piggyback??????????? If he couldn't help on a PB, what makes you think he can do much on a parralel or stand alone?

 

[70]

....(snip)

Next I question the stock sensors. . .you have an auto-learning ECU. I wonder why? Oh, for example the stock MAF has a idle voltage range of 1.7 to 2.4 volts! (of a max 5V). So, if this is what we can expect from these factory sensors (this is kind of an important one), the it would mean that a computer interpreting these signals might behave differently on a car that normally outputs 1.7 volts as opposed to a car that outputs 2.4 volts. Maybe you can tell them that on the phone as well.

(snip)....

This would be a problem for every single unit out there, if it were that big of a deal for only the AEM...

And, for the most part, it has been an issue with almost everything piggyback, or parallel.

 

[igdrasil]

MPNick:

Do you have anything else to say about your unit, Im going to read your thread, and think about your unit...

 

[Little Beavis]

This would be a problem for every single unit out there, if it were that big of a deal for only the AEM...

And, for the most part, it has been an issue with almost everything piggyback, or parallel.

I agree 100%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just said, how can they tune it over the phone when stuff like that "happens". Every unit has to be tuned! None of them are just going to go in and be "that simple".

So you are dead on. . .perfect post!

My post was not about bashing the AEM, it is awesome, it just that it isn't that simple! So don't believe the hype!

 

[70]

I agree 100%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just said, how can they tune it over the phone when stuff like that "happens". Every unit has to be tuned! None of them are just going to go in and be "that simple".

So you are dead on. . .perfect post!

My post was not about bashing the AEM, it is awesome, it just that it isn't that simple! So don't believe the hype!

I see what you are saying, but I believe it was mentioned somewhere in the volumes that are being typed out on the forums that, just like any other system, the AEM would require some end-user tuning for the application because of variances.

The maps that are sent with the unit to the customer are the "best" base to start from given their situation.

How do the maps sent with the MPI Tuner differ? Is it one base map sent with each unit regardless of turbo set up, or does MPNick send a map that best fits your set up?

Just wondering, not an attack or anything else. Just wondering.

 

[LinuxRacr]

And on a side note. . .enough of the crap about "prove this and prove that". It is okay for Perf to make claims about a system that isn't out there, but when people actually running the MPI say it works, people scoff at it. I guess Perf's words are worth more than anyone elses! He must be that damn good! The MPI works! Take my word for it! If you think Perf's counts more than mine. Good, I'm happy for you and I wish you the best of luck! I do encourage you to look through his posts, he's made as many "mistakes" as I normally do, so I don't think he's any better than me nor am I any better than him!

AMEN!

Thank you for putting this in perspective!!

 

[MPNick]

This would be a problem for every single unit out there, if it were that big of a deal for only the AEM...

And, for the most part, it has been an issue with almost everything piggyback, or parallel.

The MPI Tuner works with the stock ECU. We do not have to swap out sensors, this way we do not have these problems.


Thanks again


Later.........Nick

 

[MPNick]

MPNick:

Do you have anything else to say about your unit, Im going to read your thread, and think about your unit...

Some people think that the injectors in the intake tube is a bad idea. None of these people have used the MPI Tuner, they base things on their own opinions. If you ask anyone who is running the extra injector set up they tell you that it works fine. Whatever, I do not what to say. If this is a problem you can remove the intake manifold and install the injectors in the runners near the stock injectors. We have already done this for one member on an exchanged manifold program. We can do the same for any member who want to run this setup.

I have been useing a Dyno Jet for years. I have seen how the big injectors idea "nice" and I have seen how the work "fine" light throttle driving. Most of you maynot have tried the bigger injectors before, so you do not know what I am talking about. What some people think is "nice" and "fine" is not in my book. Think about how nice and fine any of the FMUs work on our cars. Most people cannot wait to take them off of their car. You cannot have it both ways with very big injectors. If you cut down the dutycycle down as much as you need to idea, you will have a s*** spray pattern. It is the same if you try to lower the fuel pressure to much. Every injector have its sweet spot that it needs to run right. Big injector are not used for good clean idle and good light throttle driving. BTW the new Ford GT that will be 500hp has 16 small injectors in it.

Thanks again


Later..........Nick

 

[igdrasil]

Well, I have been researching for a good unit, I was going to get the J&S but as seeing that I have a FUEL DELIVERY PROBLEM, The J&S will do nothing for me except protection against failure to a problem I will not have solved. Then the haltech which I have a tunner near home. Electromotive which is very expensive and same issues like microtech; both are standalone. Yours came in, but a lot of people bashing on it, then the AEM, too many good things.

Listen, this is what I want:

I Will be looking to boost 12psi DAILY on my stock pistons & rods..period. I dont care about motor holding or not....**** it, I have a spare engine just like new to drop it in. I do know that my current pistons are not going to hold for long (changed sparks an noticed some piston debris in them), so Im prepared for it. I just dont want to blame the unit bad tunning for my engine failure.

My future plans, which are REAL, is going forged. IT is going to happen.

The problem now is that, and ask Beavis, he saw it, is that somehow the car when pushing WOT it will boost ok UP TO 6krpms, then all of sudden, it goes lean, like a faint fuel cut, A/F drops to 16:1, temps starts to rise fast. I have a short video that shows that @ the end of second gear, just before I let off the throttle it goes lean while still accelerating (trying to). Im having nice fuel pressure like 100-110psi @ 7-8psi.

Im scared that, after investing on your unit, the problem may not be solved. Some said it is my ECU going into limp mode because of my stored codes for long, some say its my stock injectors not holding too much pressure, or the MAF maxing out....I still dont have a gawd damn clue!

I want to know what features your current unit has, I mean, what sensors it taps (MAF, AIT, O2, etc), does it really control stock Injector duty cycle, ingnition control? I do know bits of what your unit basically do.

 

[MPNick]

How do the maps sent with the MPI Tuner differ? Is it one base map sent with each unit regardless of turbo set up, or does MPNick send a map that best fits your set up?

Just wondering, not an attack or anything else. Just wondering.

The MPI Tuner works with the stock ECU mapping. Ford and Mazda have spent $1,000,000 of dollars on tuning the stock ECUs in the cars they sell.

WE only change the fuel and spark curve where in needs to be changed, under boost loads. You do not need to make big changes for none boost driving or to start up the car. I see that people are talking about having a good tuner near them to setup the units when they get the stand alone. This is nuts, you are talking $1,000.00 of dollers in tuning and dyno time. Plus you have better plan on doing it again for more then a few times. Even if you have a PnP install you still need alot of tuning, do not let anyone tell you will not.

Somewhere in old post's that I made, I talked about aftermarket computers. In the dark days of EFI's it was very hard to work with oem computers. The G-M car were the biggest market. The problem was they had very small MAFs and no one made bigger meters for one. Also you had a whole generation of tuners that only used MAP sensors. So companies came out with programable systems that used MAP sensors. The DFI was one of the first in the states. It was a G-M box the they interfaced with to tune it. The speeds of these computers were very very slow. As things changed and the Fords became a bigger share of the market things started to change. First off the EEC-IV was much faster then the G-M system. Also Ford saw that the MAF gave them a big advantage in the tuning battle. This is why you never had alot of companies jump into the Ford market with computers. It was not needed for most street cars. When Ford came out with the EEC-V things went full speed. The speeds of the computer and the amount of instructions per second can never be matched by the aftermarket. This does hold true for any new OEM computer, what they do per second to control the whole car is out of this world. Plus they have a learn mode. This is needed to make adjustments for things like, fuel, sensors, type of driving you do and a few more. Aftermerkets system just do not match the OEMs in any of these things. They do not because they cannot spend the $$$ that it takes to RD a system.

Look at it this way, what was the speed of you PC or MAC that you used about 5 years ago and compare to what you have now. Going from a modern OEM computer to a aftermarket system is like going back to your old PC or MAC.

Chips, some people talked about chips for the Mazda but they did not sell them due to laws. Being me and not wanting start trouble I will just say that they were not told the real deal. You cannot chip are computers, they are flash only. We had the deal set to do reflashing but we pulled the plug. The cost would have been over $6,800.00 for the setup. Not sure if this market is going to pay for that type of a reflash.

Thanks again

Later.......Nick
Please let me know if you have any questions at all.

 

[MPNick]

The problem now is that, and ask Beavis, he saw it, is that somehow the car when pushing WOT it will boost ok UP TO 6krpms, then all of sudden, it goes lean, like a faint fuel cut, A/F drops to 16:1, temps starts to rise fast. I have a short video that shows that @ the end of second gear, just before I let off the throttle it goes lean while still accelerating (trying to). Im having nice fuel pressure like 100-110psi @ 7-8psi.

.

You are leaning because you have to much fuel pressure.

As you turn up the fuel pressure, the total fuel flow goes down. This is one of the problems with FMUs. I do not care if you have 5 high flow pumps. At that much fuel pressure your injectors are having a hard time just opening. That much fuel pressure is closing down on the injector and it is having a hard time to open. I have seen this many times before, and I really have see this happen. I donnot just play tuner on the internet, I tune cars almost everyday full time.

With the MPI Tuner you would run stock fuel pressure. Then as you come on to boost my Turbo Module will add fuel, upto 8psi. Then you add more fuel with the extra injectors. No leaning out at all ever.

Thanks again


Later.........Nick

 

[jaman]

You are leaning because you have to much fuel pressure.

As you turn up the fuel pressure, the total fuel flow goes down. This is one of the problems with FMUs. I do not care if you have 5 high flow pumps. At that much fuel pressure your injectors are having a hard time just opening. That much fuel pressure is closing down on the injector and it is having a hard time to open. I have seen this many times before, and I really have see this happen. I donnot just play tuner on the internet, I tune cars almost everyday full time.

With the MPI Tuner you would run stock fuel pressure. Then as you come on to boost my Turbo Module will add fuel, upto 8psi. Then you add more fuel with the extra injectors. No leaning out at all ever.

Thanks again


Later.........Nick

So if I want to run say about 7 psi (on something like a GT28) in a P5, do I still need extra injectors?

One more thing Nick, why don't you have some serious marketing of your system on this board. I mean, you say your system is kick-ass, there are tons of people that need such a system, yet nobody (very few) know really much about it. I mean hard facts, dynos, vidoes, data logs, etc. I mean if you just provided these things you'd have tons of business, what's the hold up? The longer you wait the more people are discourged by thinking either you're not that serious about it or you're scared to show us the results. Sorry, its just human nature. (Please don't mention dynos for the AEM since that unit isn't even done yet, but yours is). So please Nick, if you want part of the Protege business, get cracking on your marketing, God knows we need products like yours!!

 

[ViksMSP]

Nick,
I would imagine that getting the car run safe and fast would be very possible with your system, but what I'm more interested is the smooooth acceleration. With stock ecu, you get jerks and bumps when switching closed to open loop. I would imagine you'd get even bigger jerks and bumps when extra injectors come on, or when your system adds fuel.
Getting the car to run fast in a quarter mile is one thing, but how about smooth partial throttle 3-4psi accelaration?
Thanks,
Vik.

 

[igdrasil]

werd...

im waiting for more info...

 

[MPNick]

So if I want to run say about 7 psi (on something like a GT28) in a P5, do I still need extra injectors?

One more thing Nick, why don't you have some serious marketing of your system on this board. I mean, you say your system is kick-ass, there are tons of people that need such a system, yet nobody (very few) know really much about it. I mean hard facts, dynos, vidoes, data logs, etc. I mean if you just provided these things you'd have tons of business, what's the hold up? The longer you wait the more people are discourged by thinking either you're not that serious about it or you're scared to show us the results. Sorry, its just human nature. (Please don't mention dynos for the AEM since that unit isn't even done yet, but yours is). So please Nick, if you want part of the Protege business, get cracking on your marketing, God knows we need products like yours!!

The T28 turbo can be made up with a few different trims and housing. You also have to think about how much total power you are looking for. I know we can handle upto 8psi on a T3 that was used on a Ford. They flow 36PPM. With a big trim and housing T28 and a big intercooler it may be a little short on fuel.

Trust me when I tell you that my piggyback was talked about very very much on this forum a few months ago. We do not market products like some people do on this forum. My customers love my product and they have told this forum. That is the best marketing that I know of. As for dyno testing, that will come. We took time to do some drag racing last year with a MSP. Our goal was to run into the 13s. We hit 13.7s @104 mph. Like all people who race we felt the car had alot more in it, but I do not desktop race. I could say the track is my dyno and leave it at that. It is the fastest MSP that I have seen posted here. Does that mean that the MPI Tuner is the reason for the fastest MSP? It is the off season and work is being done on the MSP. Our goal this year is to hit the 12s. That will take some dyno time and then we will see some numbers.


Thanks again


Later...Nick

 

[MPNick]

Nick,
I would imagine that getting the car run safe and fast would be very possible with your system, but what I'm more interested is the smooooth acceleration. With stock ecu, you get jerks and bumps when switching closed to open loop. I would imagine you'd get even bigger jerks and bumps when extra injectors come on, or when your system adds fuel.
Getting the car to run fast in a quarter mile is one thing, but how about smooth partial throttle 3-4psi accelaration?
Thanks,
Vik.

I am not sure why you would think that at all, you must have a wild imagination We have control of the fuel and spark. We can tune out any of the bumps in the fuel curve. The extra injectors do not just turn on and off they are blended in. We control when they come on and how hard they come on. If it was not for a small LED light that some of the guys installed by the boost gauge they would never know when the extra injectors come on, it is that smooth.

Thanks again


Later.........Nick

 

[MPNick]

werd...

im waiting for more info...

I gave you all the info on why you are running lean. I will go back and see what I missed.


Thanks again

Later.....Nick