Meth injection

[dmention7]

So unless I just fail at searching, there doesn't appear to be a whole lot of organized discussion here about water/methanol injection, at least as it pertains to the MSP. I recently got ahold of a used Devil's Own stage 2 meth kit (originally installed on a MS3)... partly because I've always been a little geeked out over the idea, and partly because the price was more than right. I've done some reading up on various sites, so I'm pretty comfortable with how everything works and will integrate, but I'm just curious to see what others have to say about it, or any other MSP-specific suggestions. What is your setup, what kind of volumes are you spraying, how are you tuned, what kind of AFRs/EGTs are you targeting? Stuff like that.


To start with, I have a SplitSecond FTC that's been sitting around waiting to be installed for awhile. I plan on running a pretty conservative tune when I get around to installing it, and I thought meth would make for a good additional safety buffer (in addition to the geek cred, lol). The kit came with a D03 nozzle, but based on what I've read on the Devil's Own site, 9 psi should have me just shy of maxing out what the next smallest nozzle can deliver, so I'll probably want to snag one of those. Other than that, it sounds like a pretty plug-n-play proposition aside from tuning. (which is the one part I feel I need to read up on more)

And before anyone mentions it, I'm well aware that my mod level is plenty shy of actually "needing" meth. Much like the L-A IC, it's just something I've wanted to play with for awhile, and the opportunity arose. But if there are any downsides to running it on only a mildly bolted car, I'm more than willing to be educated!

 

[yudkib]

a lot of people say with chemical intercooling you can run just stupid levels of boost. there was one guy who was planning on doing digital sequenced ethanol injection via an additional 4 injectors on the fuel rail and a seperate ECU but he spun a bearing on like 3 separate occasions. he was gonna go for the stock block record, but i guess this derailed him. he did claim the spun bearings werent related to the ethanol setup.

 

[dmention7]

Well that's the thing--no matter how well you're able to control detonation and cylinder temps, you're going to run up against the fact that this is a fragile little motor, and enough torque is eventually going to wreak some havoc.

I don't have any huge plans for this car, or any fancy builds in mind... I'll just be happy with the knowledge that I've drastically cut down on my chances of detonation and picked up a few ponies.

 

[Jondar]

i been trying to learn stuff about it as well and havent found much, im planning on getting it next week jsut because even with fmic unichip ect im still running a little on the lean side. my mechanic reccomended it as a safety buffer and the price is right. also then i can run a bit higher boost

 

[yudkib]

the unichip has a safety buffer, its called timing control (retard)

 

[dandan2]

the unichip has a safety buffer, its called timing control (retard)

thats uncalled for man, lol just kidding he was talking about retarding the timing. who tuned ur unichip?

 

[foxracer]

Meth just makes it so you can run more boost safer. Meth burns very cool compared to gas so it also adds hp. Depending on what all came with the kit, like a solinoid or check valve, and is it activated by a pressure switch or a window switch? I had mine ran from the window wash fluid container to the pump, from ther it was ran into a check valve and then into a 10gpm sprayer running 12 psi on a gt28rs stock internals. Mine was also activated by a pressuer switch at 6 psi and i was running 12.3 afr. Any qustions?

 

[yudkib]

thats uncalled for man, lol just kidding he was talking about retarding the timing. who tuned ur unichip?

haha i wondered if anyone would get the "double meaning"

Meth just makes it so you can run more boost safer. Meth burns very cool compared to gas so it also adds hp. Depending on what all came with the kit, like a solinoid or check valve, and is it activated by a pressure switch or a window switch? I had mine ran from the window wash fluid container to the pump, from ther it was ran into a check valve and then into a 10gpm sprayer running 12 psi on a gt28rs stock internals. Mine was also activated by a pressuer switch at 6 psi and i was running 12.3 afr. Any qustions?

how do you clean your windshield?
just kidding. what EMS were you running? standalone? and how often did you need to fill it/where did you get the meth?

 

[yudkib]

and 12.3 - thats converted from lambda, right? i dont know much about that aside from "thats what you do"

 

[Jondar]

lol id think its funnier if it wasnt directed at me. the unichip is just stock tune, i plan on gettting it tuned this summer or early fall.

 

[yudkib]

i really wasnt calling you a retard i swear i just realized it kind of sounded like that after and decided not to change it for humor

 

[Jondar]

i really wasnt calling you a retard i swear i just realized it kind of sounded like that after and decided not to change it for humor

lol i know it just sounded funny, i got it the first time i was just jokin

 

[foxracer]

haha i wondered if anyone would get the "double meaning"

how do you clean your windshield?
just kidding. what EMS were you running? standalone? and how often did you need to fill it/where did you get the meth?

Well im not running a tunner yet, i just clamped the maf sensore with a fule cut defender i made up and i can run 12psi no fule cut. It dose suck not being able to clean the window with a click of a switch to. It all depends on how offten you go into boost on how much meth you use. I get mine from my sponsor its a vp dealer around me called circle oil company. And 12.3 is not in lambda. 12.5 is about perfect as AFRs go.

 

[littlemimus]

12.5 is about perfect as AFRs go.

i thought stoicheometry was 14.7 units of air for every unit of fuel.

 

[dmention7]

Meth just makes it so you can run more boost safer. Meth burns very cool compared to gas so it also adds hp. Depending on what all came with the kit, like a solinoid or check valve, and is it activated by a pressure switch or a window switch? I had mine ran from the window wash fluid container to the pump, from ther it was ran into a check valve and then into a 10gpm sprayer running 12 psi on a gt28rs stock internals. Mine was also activated by a pressuer switch at 6 psi and i was running 12.3 afr. Any qustions?

10gpm? You must mean gph... I don't even think my garden hose will run 10gpm! lol

But anyways, I'm a little surprised since the calculator I used estimated I would top out at around 2gph. But I suppose that all could depend on the pressure of the pump etc. This is the kit I got: http://www.alcohol-injection.com/2-5-bar-stage-2-303.html There's a check valve integrated into the pump, and the controller has adjustable low and high boost settings to set where spraying starts, and where it maxes out.

Also, that's exactly the kind of info I was interested in, thank you. Now, my understanding is that 12.5 is on the aggressive side as far as AFRs go. Is there a general rule on what constitutes a conservative AFR to tune for when spraying meth? i.e. if I felt comfortable at 11.8 without meth, can I bump that to 12.3 while retaining an equivalent safety net? Or is that just ricer math? (smash)

 

[dmention7]

i thought stoicheometry was 14.7 units of air for every unit of fuel.

It is, but you'll pop your motor in no time if you try to run stoichiometrically. 11.5-12.5 is the usual target range. The excess fuel helps cool the cylinder temps and prevent predetonation.

 

[Outlawstar98]

Meth is a awesome tool, even for stock boost levels. It cools it down nicely.

 

[littlemimus]

It is, but you'll pop your motor in no time if you try to run stoichiometrically. 11.5-12.5 is the usual target range. The excess fuel helps cool the cylinder temps and prevent predetonation.

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ok! lol so you wanna run a tad bit rich then.

 

[03.5MSP]

To my understanding when you guys tune with methanol, you should switch the Wideband gauges to lambda, like stated. I don't think its recommended nor a good idea to just do a comparison between afr's. ie: before methanol afr's were 12, and with meth 12.5. Methanol will throw off the afr's so the numbers you see are not your true afr. The lambda # i would be shooting for is between .774 to about .850.

 

[foxracer]

Yes i ment gph, and 14.7 not in boost is stoich. and when in boost 12.5 is around where you make most power 11s are alittle to rich and 13s are alittle to lean. Spraying meth will richen up the afrs alittle. either you can take fule away, or do what i do.... add boost and hope the unbuilt motor dosnt blow.