Intercooler facts and opinions

Fede_italiano said:
This thread is going to be endless.....

I guess there will never be an agremeent, but all those FMIC are nice for sure.
It all depends in your application.
If you are running stock boost Perrin makes no sense, if you have big power it is probably perfect.
If you are just in to get better results at stock levels BEGI, HiBoost or TH SMIC are going to be great.
All the products from the vendors have great quality and I thank for supporting the protege market.

I also think that eventhough the FMIC might be cover, air sure does flow in that area either directly or indirectly. Just like air flows in the covered radiator.

By the way, you guys have all good points but it is about the best product for your application. (thumb)
Click to expand...


Put great!
 
This thread is about facts and opinions, and i love to hear the opinions of other people. Our statement is a reponse as to why we built it the way we did.
ZenProtege brings up the exposed fins in our Core vs. the other core. What you are missing is that only 1 or 2 is under the front of the bumper, and the ones above are still exposed. The air from the front of the car doesn't just flow through the line of site shown in the pics. This brings the usable core to 70-80% making it more comparable to the other.

The Gigantic bars, are a huge benifit. They are 3/8 bars (others use 1/4 bars). The benifit is the charge air has a much less restrictive path to take, making for less pressure drop. In the end its all about cooling and pressure drop. We could make a very small charge tube (the 3/8 bar part) and get better cooling, but more pressure drop. With this core the better cooling can be had by the size of the core. So we go with the the larger charge tube. In fact all of our cores us this size (3/8) because it is the best combo for cooling and flow.

Yes, our core is not needed for the stock boost stock car. It is designed, like all of our other parts to be used for elevated boost levels, and cars with bigger turbos.

The nice thing is there are others that are making FMIC for these which make for a more competative market. Having competition is always good, it forces everone to strive to make a better part. That does nothing but benefit customers in the end.
 
the pictures also dont do justice to how deep the perrin core is. I mean, we held up the HiBoost core to it and it looks like a tinker toy. The Perrin is allmost twice as deep.
 
orly.jpg
 
there has never been independant, side by side test of any two of the major offerings (for fmic's) Perrin, MAM, HiBoost, BEGi, etc.

its impossible to truely know which has the best cooling, least pressure drop untill someone is willing to buy all of them and collect data. until that day, its all theory and speculation

besides this point however, I'd say they are all a damn sight better than stock.
 
tekkie said:
I would beg to differ about the Perrin being the best intercooler hands down, I helped one of my friends install it and I was less than impressed with it, the ION and Mental Addiction kits are much better imo

why?
- Perrin piping did not fit properly, and the way the kit is designed you pretty much no play on it
- the hose clamps are crap, its those cheapy ones you would use for an intake, we broke a couple of them with little force, I am not so confident they would even hold high boost to be honest
- you have to cut your bumper which is going to cause you problems if you get in an accident
- although it has a huge core, if you look at the fins they are nowhere near as efficent because they are spaced furthur apart and they are not doubled like on the other intercoolers

personally if I had to pick one the Perrin one would be the last one I would choose out of all the current MSP ones
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I broke my AEM cai clamps way, before anything even happend to the perrin ones. The piping fits great and the mods needed to fit the pipes are minimal. Definitely a badass FMIC and worth every penny.
 
can the intsall on the perrin be easliy ****** up ? the cutting... etc....

cutting the frame doesnt sound like something I'd want to jump right into...

is/was it easier/less difficult than it looks/sounds ? (cheers) cheers to dualist double speak. (cheers)
 
I dont think it should be that hard...but if you have not worked with your car before, then is something you might want to leave to someone else or get some help...my concern would be with the bending of the a/c lines.


Vic:)
 
GrandBelialKey said:
can the intsall on the perrin be easliy ****** up ? the cutting... etc....

cutting the frame doesnt sound like something I'd want to jump right into...

is/was it easier/less difficult than it looks/sounds ? (cheers) cheers to dualist double speak. (cheers)
Click to expand...


The install takes 3-5 hours. The cutting is not of the frame, it is of the sheetmetal on the left and right side of the radiator. You can use a Sawsall to cut a square or a 3" to 3.5" drill bit to drill out a circle.

The time consuming steps are removing the front bumper, drilling the sheet metal, and the AC line reroute.
 
I am agreeing with SU here. I want it done right the first time. If I am going to buy a new IC at all, I want it to be one that I can use with ALL of my future upgrades. If nothing else... I think I will buy it simply because it fills up the front bumper hole completely. That is a big deal to me because I want it to be smooth looking, like it belongs on there. One of you guys said something about the fins being spaced apart, please explain further.
 
^^^ exactly. And dont let people tell ya the big core is causing a big pressure drop. Its bulls***. We experienced no pressure drop upon installation. It looks pimp, will perform up to your expectations and then some, and the piping is gorgeous.
 
ZenProtege said:
Count the number of fins exposed in the perrin vs how many it has.
I counted 7 out of 12....close to 50%

the begi under it exposes 7 of 10 70%

the gigantic bars on the perrin appear to consume another 50% of what is shown.

both seem to have the same amount of fins that any direct airflow will pass across
Click to expand...
The begi you posted pics of also most likely doesn't use all of its core effectively. The endtanks are square and definately not optimal for spreading the charge air evenly across the core.

The Perrin unit has much better shaped endtanks, and looks to effectively use the entire core.

Also as pointed out, airflow is not going to follow line-of-sight, it is going to flow over the entire IC.
 
I know I'm (deadhorse , but if you don't agree with my views then read the quotes. this is from http://www.bellintercoolers.com/pages/techFAQ.html#FAQ_3 and exemplifies my points

Does one style core cool better than another?
No, almost no difference. With three decades of testing intercoolers, we have found no appreciable difference between any core style or manufacturer. Keep in mind, that the merit of a core is its efficiency versus its internal drag characteristics. When sized for a tolerable flow loss, virtually all cores will produce essentially the same efficiency results. Perhaps a core with slightly less flow area per linear inch, or one with longer tubes, will need perhaps 5% more tubes to equal the best of intercoolers with regard to flow loss and efficiency. Not a very important difference.

What factors affect efficiency of an Air-to-Air Intercooler?
Frontal area: This is a rapidly decreasing function. If the proper core size is used, then doubling it will definitely not double the efficiency. More likely, doubling the core would raise the efficiency about 5% and cost twice the necessary amount and add substantially to the weight.

Plate area: Plate Area (the sum of the Core-Plate Area which is exposed to the Atmosphere) is directly proportional to the frontal area and the thickness. Thickness, however, is a double-edged sword. With the greater thickness, the plate area increases but less ambient air can penetrate the thicker core to offer cooling.

Ambient air quantity: It is very important to insure that air coming in the snout of the car will actually go through the intercooler.
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Last edited:
igdrasil said:
Completeley wrong....think about it, then the 323 Turbo, Saabs, GTI 1.8T's, MSP have useless intercoolers? They are hidden and take no air streams.
No matter what, the intercooler will disperse heat.
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It will heat soak very fast and then they no longer cool down the charge.
 
pluto316 said:
How do you know it works great? I bet that car doesn't even NEED an intercooler, it lives it's life a quartermile at a time.
Click to expand...

That was almost funny. Its been 5 years and its been played out.
 
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