Not sure I would ever feel comfortable from a reliability standpoint in a Land Rover unless it was one one of the pre-luxury versions of the 1970's...something almost completely mechanical with no electronics.
CQ: CX-9 diagonal and offroad test --- Fail!
- Thread starter boybi
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Not sure I would ever feel comfortable from a reliability standpoint in a Land Rover unless it was one one of the pre-luxury versions of the 1970's...something almost completely mechanical with no electronics.
Former Series I Land Rover Discovery owner. Extremely capable off roader. Used to carry a tow strap and pulled out more than one stranded motorist. To lock the diff for 4 wheel low required two hands to move the level over to the low position. It was an overbuilt 4x4 for soccer mom SUV mall crawling duty. It leaked oil from day 1, stainless? exhaust rotted out at 80k, abs and power doors locks failed at 100k. Each trip to the dealer was always at least $800... damn I miss that truck
To limit the cost of manufacture? (scratch)(rlaugh)
G
Guest2018
ATRAC is a wonderful thing and it seems to work well in the 4Runner particularly. In fact, I'm waiting to see what Toyota does with the new 2018 4Runner before making my next buying decision (leaning towards Tundra 1794 or F150 King Ranch - though I don't want the Ecoboost engine problems that seem to be too frequent).
Mazda however, relies upon and heavily develops "preemptive" algorithms to predict when and where to move torque to the wheels with grip. What do you think of DSC vs the new GVC, which is slated for the new 2018 CX-9? I'm wondering if I should have waited a few more months before buying my Signature. It will be interesting to see if GVC is that much better than the current iACTIV AWD arrangement.
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G
Guest2018
Stranded by a Jeep? Wow! I guess anything is possible these days with mass produced vehicles. Agreed on the FJ, but for all the money you will spend on the Land Rover, they simply have too many reported problems by owners from across the board. It blows my mind that they demand so much top dollar, yet deliver mechanical problems sometimes on par with Ford.
I guess you could eliminate to some degree the higher end HSE Sport from that statement, but I've even read about some of those owners having too many mechanical and electrical issues. I just don't understand. It is supposed to be 'the' top end SUV maker on the planet. Well.... that is... until Bentley arrived with the new Bentayga. I just saw one of those on the road for the very first time two weeks ago and it looked like all the rage. It was also doing about 100mph and blew right past me in my brand new CX-9 Sig, by the way. Absolutely, hilarious how smoothly and effortlessly it blew right by me and I was already doing 85. We slowed down later in because of traffic and I got my first good look in the wild at the Bentayga. Gawd, that thing is beautiful. Glorious, even.
Land Rover is no longer the kind of Luxury SUVs, as far as I am concerned. The Bentayga hits like a nuclear bomb and leaves you wondering.... what the hell am I driving?
G
Guest2018
I used to see a lot of them in the wild here in California, that's for sure. Used to see one everywhere you went as a matter of fact. So, maybe it was a regional sales thing. Or, maybe it was the overall fuel economy. It drank more fuel than a Talon T-38 (really bad) and it was probably less comfortable and not nearly as fast (tongue in cheek).
Why was it stopped? Who knows - but maybe this guy had some insight into what needed to be overcome by Toyota: http://www.offroaders.com/reviews/toyota-fj-cruiser-discontinued/.
This is why I said: "...bring it into the 21st Century." Continuing production under the same design, no. Redesign it while keeping all of its off-road capabilities, yes. If Toyota, had done that - I'd probably be driving an FJ Cruiser right now.
My hope is that they don't give up on the 4Runner Limited, or leave it hanging where it is right now in limbo. It needs refinements and if they do that, I'll be a buyer without question because I'm not taking my CX-9 off-road other than nicely manicured fire trails. (boom08)
These demo videos are kinda gimmicky. If the diagonal angle is such that a wheel is very light or off the ground, they can't pull. Traction control might help, but nothing like a locking differential or locking center differential which we know they do not have. Also, the street tires don't have the tread for a strong pull lightly on the loose ground. Take the videos for what they are---
IMO... they do seem fair... Toyota/Lexus ATRAC system in their trucks and SUVs simply uses ABS on open differentials. It works really well and basically creates an electronically ABS controlled limited slip differential front and rear. Mechanical lockers are for scenarios far more aggressive than this.
EDIT: Kind of ironic Toyota neutered the Highlander but not surprised after seeing the TFL video. Honda seems to be addressing with putting SH-AWD in the Pilot.
EDIT: Kind of ironic Toyota neutered the Highlander but not surprised after seeing the TFL video. Honda seems to be addressing with putting SH-AWD in the Pilot.
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Wow, thanks for sharing. I waited a long time for them to do the Highlander. As this was my other consideration, interestingly enough. These two aren't the only ones to fail the test though. The CX-9 got so much hate for this and killed sales. Now we have the 2nd best seller in the segment fail. What will this do to Highlander sales and reputation?
Personally, I don't put much weight in this particular scenario. I still bought the CX-9 after the test was published.
I agree...such stupid tests! I commented previously on the channel and the tester/reviewer became defensive saying that their tests were intended for fun and not really to test AWD capability which in turn could "hurt and diminish" a brand's reputation which I think what happened to Mazda and now this with Toyota.
While it is nice to know if your vehicle would be able to tackle such test 99% of the time in-real world driving no driver in his/her right mind would subject the vehicle to such pounding on its AWD system nor drive off road with such angle-terrain. I hope that manufacturers would take notice and no longer provide vehicles to said channel for putting their vehicles to unneccesary AWD and tire abuse. But that is just my take...others will have a difference in opinion.
I've had my CX-5 in a few places like this demo off-road. It works fine. Real world would be some of the water bars you see on forest service roads here in PNW and on a hill. My CX-5 has been on two wheels a number of times. You can't always get a good line and straight on can sometimes result in bottoming out depending on how large the water bar is.
Just a reminder... you can help your vehicle along in this situation by applying some brake along with the throttle. This will force more power to the wheel with grip even if the stock ABS system doesn't. This can work on snow/ice too.
Aren't they adding that extra off-road function to CX-9 for '19 like they did with the '17 CX-5 turning off TCS?
Just a reminder... you can help your vehicle along in this situation by applying some brake along with the throttle. This will force more power to the wheel with grip even if the stock ABS system doesn't. This can work on snow/ice too.
Aren't they adding that extra off-road function to CX-9 for '19 like they did with the '17 CX-5 turning off TCS?
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I wonder how many of the YouTube viewers are being honest when they said they were going to buy the CX-9 but the video changed their mind.
LOL, good point. Internet people always ask for such things but then if it happens, they still don't sell.
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- 2018 Mazda CX-9 Grand Touring / Deep Crystal Blue / Sand leather
These tests are helpful for understanding the limitations of various AWD systems, but should ultimately have very little impact in everyday driving on public roads (if any).
I think if anyone has their purchasing decision on the CX-9 swayed by tests like these, then their priorities may be a bit misguided. The CX-9 is ultimately intended for on-road use with maybe occasional/limited "soft road" exposure. If you need/want your vehicle to be able to handle more extreme conditions such as those shown in these tests, then you need to be looking elsewhere.
I think if anyone has their purchasing decision on the CX-9 swayed by tests like these, then their priorities may be a bit misguided. The CX-9 is ultimately intended for on-road use with maybe occasional/limited "soft road" exposure. If you need/want your vehicle to be able to handle more extreme conditions such as those shown in these tests, then you need to be looking elsewhere.
Well, i do feel better now, after i saw the Toyota video. We know that the CX-9 and the Highlander both have the same crappy AWD system.
I do like the Highlander a lot and i considered it as CX-9 alternative. And because i had some very underwhelming experiences with my CX-9 in the snow/dirt/gravel ... i thought that i made a mistake and should have bought the Highlander, especially when i knew that the Toyota had the center diff lock button.
Not anymore. No regrets with my choice. This video demonstrates that the center diff lock button is useless and that the AWD system is pretty much the same. Weak (does not send enough power to the rear wheels), not smart, and generally good for only very light duty low traction situations. I call it.... FWD on steroids, because my CX-9 behaves like a FWD 95% of the time.
Shame on Toyota and shame on Mazda that they did not come up with something a bit better given what they are charging for these cars. Somehow other vendors did a better job - Kia, Honda come to mind. Oh well.... there is no perfect vehicle.
I do like the Highlander a lot and i considered it as CX-9 alternative. And because i had some very underwhelming experiences with my CX-9 in the snow/dirt/gravel ... i thought that i made a mistake and should have bought the Highlander, especially when i knew that the Toyota had the center diff lock button.
Not anymore. No regrets with my choice. This video demonstrates that the center diff lock button is useless and that the AWD system is pretty much the same. Weak (does not send enough power to the rear wheels), not smart, and generally good for only very light duty low traction situations. I call it.... FWD on steroids, because my CX-9 behaves like a FWD 95% of the time.
Shame on Toyota and shame on Mazda that they did not come up with something a bit better given what they are charging for these cars. Somehow other vendors did a better job - Kia, Honda come to mind. Oh well.... there is no perfect vehicle.
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There are definitely a few of us who take their "trucks" off-road. In that scenario, these tests are very relevant. You can easily find yourself with two tires in the air on mild off-road trails. These results didn't change my mind about the vehicle because it's main purpose in my household isn't wheelin', but kid/parent haulin'. That being said, if someone makes an AWD system, that isn't very effective, I think it's good information to have. So based on that alone, I think these tests are great. In my mind, more information is always better when it comes to making financial decisions. If you have all the information, you can still decide that it's not relevant to your use and still buy the car.
